And if the 5B replacement runs beyond Great Torrington it will duplicate the increased service on the Stagecoach 75 between Torrington and Barnstaple (via Biddeford). Very wasteful.
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Stagecoach South West - Fleet News & Discussion
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150249
Member
Looks like 48008 is finally back this morning after being out of service for just short of 2 months
Place bets on how long it will last. I also see 7 hasn't been in traffic the last few days which is hopefully good news. Makes sense for the YJ66 Solo's to stay in Exeter though.
A lot of the new route numbers in the 300s have been used before for those routes, but at different times and very different frequencies.
The 315 was Exeter - Barnstaple as per current 5B, but only once a day Exeter at 10:00 returning from Barnstaple at 15:25. The same route was also the 75 from Barnstaple at 09:30 returning at 17:00 (as of summer 1998). The other routes in the area were less frequent ie less than daily. The concept of a 2 hourly service all day was unbelievable then and has probably never been viable today.
What used to be true in the rural areas were services specific to a defined need - to school, work, shopping etc. and not regular interval services. It was also true that the afternoon school / college runs can be done with less buses than the morning run. So not all shopping services, post 09:30, had to be back before 3pm school finish. What was more true was the school bus operator was subsidised to run a shopping service and/or works and leisure journeys that fitted their staff and vehicle availability, rather than the council specifying a 1 or 2 bus all day service as a standalone route.
The 346 South Molton to Tiverton was 4 journeys per day on Mon, Wed and Thur as a Devon contract. On Tues the 662 to Exeter and on Fri and Sat the X16 to Exeter provided shopping trips with which the 346 did not compete. Very messy apart from the Tiverton College runs.
The 86 Plymouth - Tavistock, Okehampton, Bideford, Barnstaple may have left Plymouth hourly, but less than half got beyond Tavistock. Only the 07:30 and 09:30 from Plymouth actually went through to Barnstaple. The 12:30 from Plymouth got to Hatherleigh and then doubled back to Okehampton College before heading for Barnstaple, making the third and final journey into Barnstaple.
The new 6 and 6a at fixed 3 hourly intervals seems unlikely to work - yes it is an efficient use of buses, but does it provide a customer service? The train connections at Axminster work, because the buses arrive about 15 mins before and leave 10 mins after the 2 crossing trains either by waiting or continuing across town to wait. It is a big demand and defines the route timetables, with interworking of school runs to make it efficient. Will the Okehampton connections work and if not what happens to the 3 hourly service?
The 315 was Exeter - Barnstaple as per current 5B, but only once a day Exeter at 10:00 returning from Barnstaple at 15:25. The same route was also the 75 from Barnstaple at 09:30 returning at 17:00 (as of summer 1998). The other routes in the area were less frequent ie less than daily. The concept of a 2 hourly service all day was unbelievable then and has probably never been viable today.
What used to be true in the rural areas were services specific to a defined need - to school, work, shopping etc. and not regular interval services. It was also true that the afternoon school / college runs can be done with less buses than the morning run. So not all shopping services, post 09:30, had to be back before 3pm school finish. What was more true was the school bus operator was subsidised to run a shopping service and/or works and leisure journeys that fitted their staff and vehicle availability, rather than the council specifying a 1 or 2 bus all day service as a standalone route.
The 346 South Molton to Tiverton was 4 journeys per day on Mon, Wed and Thur as a Devon contract. On Tues the 662 to Exeter and on Fri and Sat the X16 to Exeter provided shopping trips with which the 346 did not compete. Very messy apart from the Tiverton College runs.
The 86 Plymouth - Tavistock, Okehampton, Bideford, Barnstaple may have left Plymouth hourly, but less than half got beyond Tavistock. Only the 07:30 and 09:30 from Plymouth actually went through to Barnstaple. The 12:30 from Plymouth got to Hatherleigh and then doubled back to Okehampton College before heading for Barnstaple, making the third and final journey into Barnstaple.
The new 6 and 6a at fixed 3 hourly intervals seems unlikely to work - yes it is an efficient use of buses, but does it provide a customer service? The train connections at Axminster work, because the buses arrive about 15 mins before and leave 10 mins after the 2 crossing trains either by waiting or continuing across town to wait. It is a big demand and defines the route timetables, with interworking of school runs to make it efficient. Will the Okehampton connections work and if not what happens to the 3 hourly service?
I think they’ll be a success.
150249
Member
I hope they are fixing 48007. Just seemed to get worse everyday.
DaveHarries
Established Member
Devon County Council have confirmed on their website that the tender for Service 306 (Launceston - Okehampton), which will replace Service 6A between those towns, has been won by Go Cornwall Bus: the tenders for Services 315, 345 & 377 have been won by Plymouth Citybus.
Dave
Changes to Bus Services in Devon from 30th October 2022 - Travel Devon
Stagecoach are making changes to their commercial bus services in Devon and have also given notice on a number of supported services, which are operated under tender arrangement by Devon County Council (DCC). This page gives details of the changes and new arrangements for supported services...
www.traveldevon.info
Dave
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This means that Plymouth City Bus (?Go Devon?) will operate a day time 30 min service from Exeter through Crediton to Copplestone before splitting 2 hourly on 315 (Barnstaple), 345 (Okehampton via Hatherleigh) and hourly 377 to Chulmleigh. Very much direct replacement of 5A/5B/5C including a 22:35 from Barnstaple to Torrington. So Go Ahead moves into Exeter and Barnstaple as well as Okehampton on 306 & 345. New outstations / depot and new branding?Devon County Council have confirmed on their website that the tender for Service 306 (Launceston - Okehampton), which will replace Service 6A between those towns, has been won by Go Cornwall Bus: the tenders for Services 315, 345 & 377 have been won by Plymouth Citybus.
Changes to Bus Services in Devon from 30th October 2022 - Travel Devon
Stagecoach are making changes to their commercial bus services in Devon and have also given notice on a number of supported services, which are operated under tender arrangement by Devon County Council (DCC). This page gives details of the changes and new arrangements for supported services...www.traveldevon.info
Dave
Travel Devon / bus changes also has pdfs of leaflets for the F and T / 58 at Exeter.
New timetables are better than expected but some of the duplication is nuts:
T and 58 both run at roughly the same time to/from Woodbury so hardly improving the 2 hourly 58.
The morning extended 5 runs 2 mins before the 345 from Hatherleigh the whole way to Exeter!
The morning 5 runs only 20 mins behind the 377 from Chulmleigh and the afternoon one runs only 20 mins in front.
So Crediton to Exeter goes to 5 buses and 2 trains an hour now which is mad!
Still no 306 timetable and TravelineSW still haven't fixed the E1 and E2 timetable.
T and 58 both run at roughly the same time to/from Woodbury so hardly improving the 2 hourly 58.
The morning extended 5 runs 2 mins before the 345 from Hatherleigh the whole way to Exeter!
The morning 5 runs only 20 mins behind the 377 from Chulmleigh and the afternoon one runs only 20 mins in front.
So Crediton to Exeter goes to 5 buses and 2 trains an hour now which is mad!
Still no 306 timetable and TravelineSW still haven't fixed the E1 and E2 timetable.
It might do Stagecoach some good to have some proper competition in Exeter and on the Crediton Corridor for the first time in a long time, even though the rivals are financially supported. After Stagecoach's performance recently, I certainly know which service I would be travelling on.
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DaveHarries
Established Member
I have also been wondering about the likelihood of an operating base for these routes. Someone has told me in a Facebook group that GoAhead purchased (part of?) Dartline which I was unaware of: that might provide a base somewhere in a convenient location. Looking at those timetables I somehow doubt they would do all that from one base though.
I wonder if they might have two bases: one in the North Tawton / Okehampton area (the former is common to both the 315 & 345), possibly Meeth (which would give a direct route to Bideford for that early 315) and perhaps another one down towards Exeter. No doubt it will turn up on the VOSA in due course.
It would, of course, be ironic if the bus traffic was enough to lower the train passenger levels although I hope that won't happen: I prefer the train TBH.
Dave
I'm hoping that the I/J and new B services will not run together between the City Centre and Whipton. At present they are almost at the same time, as were the J and K last year when both ran every 20 minutes. I don't know where their schedules are written. Not seen any timetables yet.
Book timetable
Do you need a printable timetable? Click here for quick and convenient timetables.
Available here I understand.
Peter Philips
Member
- Joined
- 30 Jun 2016
- Messages
- 138
We had Crediton to Exeter duplication before of course when First, Turners or Beacon Bus previously ran some of said routes rather than the main local commercial operator.
I've found some of the new timetables, now posted on the Travel Devon website. Five buses an hour to Crediton - we (the Exeter Bus Users' Group) need to ask a few questions. Are the Plymouth Citybus contracts let by Devon County Council between Barnstaple/Okehamptn/Chulmleigh and Crediton only, and Plymouth CityBus has decided to continue into Exeter commercially? I assume that's the case and wonder how Stagecoach will react. All the PCB routes will run to/from the Sidwell Street stop, already quite heavily used, as there's no room in the bus station. I wonder if this is an opportunity for GoAhead to push further into Devon.Book timetable
Do you need a printable timetable? Click here for quick and convenient timetables.nationaljourneyplanner.travelinesw.com
Available here I understand.
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Peter Philips
Member
- Joined
- 30 Jun 2016
- Messages
- 138
Isn't it likely the case that Devon County Council tendered for through operation to Exeter to be helpful as that's where many passengers from the rural villages wish to go and kicking them off in Crediton to wait for a connecting Stagecoach bus, which may or may not run due to driver shortages or may be missed due to the late running of the incoming tendered service, may deter yet more passengers from using public transport? The rural tendered Dartline 369 also operates through to Exeter not just Crediton. Stagecoach presumably previously enjoyed a cost saving by tendering extensions to its existing commercial (supported evenings) Exeter-Crediton 5 whereas previous operators such as First, Beacon Bus and Turners all ran through to Exeter in addition to the local Stagecoach services.
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Yes but we are going to have too many buses on the Exeter - Crediton corridor and don't forget that drivers, already in short supply, will have to be found. This is the result of the segregation of the bus network into commercial and tendered services rather than an integrated approach. I had to steer deregulation through Gloucestershire County Council in 1986 and many of us had misgivings then about how it would work. I agree that an enforced change at Crediton would not be desirable, especially as it's a different operator so through fares wouldn't be offered.
Although I have not seen any evidence for this, Dealtop Ltd (trading as Dartline Coaches) did satisfy all 3 of its financial charges in mid September - so money from somewhere (see Companies House). David Dart will also be 78 in Nov and so perhaps time to accept an offer for at least the bus business. The public paperwork takes time to complete.
Dartline has small operating centres in Okehampton (for 118 to Tavistock) and Lapford, near Crediton amongst others.
If the Go Ahead group in the form of Plymouth City Bus Ltd have purchased all or part of Dartline it would make a good base for the new contracts and the future. Dartline has a spread of services from frequent to weekly, plus school work.
I am no expert in the legal niceties of Council tenders, but there are some pointers. The 5/5C were registered together on number 34, which has been amended. The 5A/5B were registered from Exeter on 101 which has been cancelled. Stagecoach changes states "Devon County Council are in the process of procuring replacement services between Exeter / Crediton with Okehampton, Barnstaple and Chulmleigh." Travel Devon actually gives new timetables for Exeter - Okehampton & Barnstaple, but Crediton to Chumleigh. The replacement timetables are only small changes to the current services. Stagecoach has proposed increased frequency and new single journey extensions to the commercial 5.
My take on this (and I may be wrong) is that the 315 and 345 (5B, 5A) can continue with little change to timetable provided, as DCC contracts, irrespective of Stagecoach's proposed increase in the 5. The 377 (5C) again continues with unchanged service, but only as a DCC contract between Chumleigh and Crediton as the Crediton to Exeter route registration has not been cancelled. However running the 377 into Exeter and not as a feeder into Stagecoach's 5 is probably commercially worthwhile in the current situation. Stagecoach may choose to alter their proposed commercial 5 registration either up or down!
Woodbury to Exeter is not the only journey opportunity provided. The T will provide service to the local retail outlets at Darts Farm and Topsham and goes into Exeter serving County Hall and the crematorium before finishing in the High Street rather than the bus station. A different local offering even if some times are similar.
Very concerning claims on the BBC these last few days , about Falcon services apparently not picking up asylum seekers at bus stops in North Somerset. Stagecoach have launched an investigation at least.
www.bbc.co.uk
Stagecoach launch 'urgent' investigation after racism claims
The bus operator has faced claims drivers refuse to pick up asylum seekers in North Somerset.
www.bbc.co.uk
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It will be interesting to see the outcome of this, more to this story than is printed..Very concerning claims on the BBC these last few days , about Falcon services apparently not picking up asylum seekers at bus stops in North Somerset. Stagecoach have launched an investigation at least.
Stagecoach launch 'urgent' investigation after racism claims
The bus operator has faced claims drivers refuse to pick up asylum seekers in North Somerset.
I will stick up for Falcon drivers on this one. How does a driver know that someone is an asylum seeker when they have the correct fare and state their destination. I am an ex Falcon driver myself. Their passes have validity zones when you try to explain they get angry. I think its just a lack of communication.The race card is used so often these days.
Quite agree, I'm with the Falcon drivers too.
Devon Changes - Both Stagecoach and Travel Devon have most of the new timetables on line now. (Some are still on one and not the other, but that will catch up soon)
Bude - Okehampton - Exeter 6/6A on Sunday will be run as a through service by Go Cornwall from Bude.
I am still interested to see the practicalities of some of the changes, not least the Go Ahead Exeter base (Expected to be Dartline Coaches, but). I would expect further changes as the new arrangements settle down.
Some of the changes in Exeter and East Devon, which are on mark2 changes (mark1 from July), are certainly more complex. For example the 56 is replaced in sections by the 4A, 58, 96 and 356, which are all essentially new routes.
Bude - Okehampton - Exeter 6/6A on Sunday will be run as a through service by Go Cornwall from Bude.
I am still interested to see the practicalities of some of the changes, not least the Go Ahead Exeter base (Expected to be Dartline Coaches, but). I would expect further changes as the new arrangements settle down.
Some of the changes in Exeter and East Devon, which are on mark2 changes (mark1 from July), are certainly more complex. For example the 56 is replaced in sections by the 4A, 58, 96 and 356, which are all essentially new routes.
Interestingly the 6A on Sunday is allowed to use Exeter Bus Station so Go Cornwall will make it in the bus station twice a week lol.
150249
Member
Does anyone know where I can find the full E1/E2 timtables?
Not simple to find future timetables, but fairly typical of late,
Either Stagecoach in Exeter > Promo&Offers > Timetables the South West >Changes for Oct30th and see more
https://tiscon-maps-stagecoachbus.s...les/South West/October 30 22/E1_E2 301022.pdf
Or Travel Devon > Bus >News & Changes > Changes from 30 October
Travel Devon includes the non Stagecoach changes.
150249
Member
Thank you. Much appreciated. Looks like 6 workings on that.
For what its worth I think there are 7 workings on the E1/E2. It's not the most helpful timetable because all E1s and E2 go to Exwick Kinnerton Way but they are shown as two different places on the two different routes. An E1 arriving there returns as an E2 and vice versa.
Having looked further Stagecoach run the 75 hourly from Bideford to Great Torrington and the Go Cornwall 315 from Barnstaple to Exeter will run 2-hourly. The times from Bideford are three minutes apart at 35 and 38! Northbound slightly better, 48 and 03. At Crediton, heading towards Exeter, Stagecoach run at 05, 25 and 45 while Go Cornwall run at 11 or 12 and 46, so Stagecoach look to have the advantage. For the return journey of course they start from different places. But if one ends up being reliable and the other is not....
And it is so wasteful. Now I think the PVR of the 5/A/B/C is 9 (but its quite complex). Going forward the 5 will be PVR of 4, the 315 PVR3, the 345 PVR 2 and the 377 PVR 3, which is a total of 12 - three extra!
150249
Member
Interesting that there are 7. Will probably end up being 6 anyway. I quite like the changes they've done to the E/F.
On another note, what will the 43 interwork with. I would've thought it'd be the E2 but the times don't match.
thameslink2000
Member
- Joined
- 10 Oct 2011
- Messages
- 132
Presumably 43 interworking with 351 in Tiverton, the times of each would suggest so and I gather they were on the same tender together.