November strike action on National Rail suspended - impact on next week's service

[zwk500]

Is there a single area of the railway where people do feel appreciated at the moment?

Probably not, which speaks volumes about how it's all been going for the past couple of years. (But then, I shouldn't really say too much as I made my peace with NR over the summer).

 

[theageofthetra]

So a signaller that was rostered to work early turn tomorrow, was rest day today and has had a drink or
3 lunchtime or later this afternoon before hearing the strike has been called off isn't going to be able take duty tommorow at 04XX if they value their job ? This and any shifts to cover holidays or sickness that haven't been filled because no one put available for overtime bring a strike day ?

Exactly, plus if they were on a rest day Sunday or Monday they may well have gone away for the weekend.

 

[43066]

Our TOC has taken a very sensible line - given the short notice anyone who doesn't attend work tomorrow will have the loss of pay but there will be no further action taken for the non-attendance. Not just having a drink which is an issue either - on the assumption of both myself and the company that I wouldn't be in tomorrow I covered a vacant turn today that caused me to have insufficient rest for my booking on time tomorrow. Again, very sensibly, I am coming in to work after the appropriate amount of rest instead.

That’s good to hear. The handling of this seems altogether more grown up from both sides than the dispute over 12 car working on the milk float fleet….

EDIT: I’m pleased to see the BBC news is making clear that, although strikes are off, there will still be a limited service tomorrow and Monday. Let’s hope the message gets out there so that people aren’t inconvenienced more than necessary.

 

[Birmingham]

This the statement I would like to be reading on the Southern Trains website later this evening:
'The RMT strikes on 5,7,9 Nov have been called off. In order to provide a reliable service we have decided to leave the advertised service for 5 to 10 Nov in place. HOWEVER, we will now work to introduce additional services. These will be advertised when, and only when, we are confident they will run.'

What are the chances of that, or something similar, being published by any TOC?

I think Southeastern is doing this, including running mainline services tomorrow.

 

[Bald Rick]

When this is all said and done, feel like everyone involved in strike planning and train planning could do with a massive celebration to show just how much has been achieved, and how many things have been done that everyone thought was impossible over the past year.

notes

Which, unless you were privy to the decision making, is just your own (heavily biased) interpretation of events…

Well I am to the former, and can confirm that interpretation is not heavily biased.

 

[Bantamzen]

Well, no, I don’t know that at all. Could it be there’s hope of movement and that’s why the strikes have been suspended?! No of course not, it’s all part of a big anti-passenger conspiracy theory! I also wonder if you’d feel like you were “sitting around” if you were expected to go to a traincrew depot for an 0400 book on.

It’s certainly ironic that you spent months complaining about the strikes being called in the first place, now you’re moaning about how they’ve been called off!

And who the here believes this? It's a very clever move I will grant the rail unions, but calling off the strikes hours before they were due to start, and in the full knowledge that the TOCs almost certainly couldn't revive normal service the next day.... Seriously? Now there may have a been a change in government approach, but I seriously doubt that it has happened this afternoon or that there has been a seismic shift in policy.

In the meantime the punters face at least another couple of days of an even crapper service from what is a pretty crap service, whilst many crews will sit and drink tea all day. In would not want to be on the front line this weekend, because there are going to be some seriously peed off punters. This is what I am complaining about.

 

[muz379]

Our TOC has taken a very sensible line - given the short notice anyone who doesn't attend work tomorrow will have the loss of pay but there will be no further action taken for the non-attendance. Not just having a drink which is an issue either - on the assumption of both myself and the company that I wouldn't be in tomorrow I covered a vacant turn today that caused me to have insufficient rest for my booking on time tomorrow. Again, very sensibly, I am coming in to work after the appropriate amount of rest instead.

But that doesnt fit into the cynical rhetoric of this being a concerted effort to cause disruption without loss of pay . There you are covering uncovered work tonight that would have likely ended up in cancellations when really you should be trying to cause as many cancellations as possible .

I hope my TOC is employing a similar level of common sense , I know a few folk who normally arrange childcare who had not for tomorrow because they expected a day off who were in a bit of a pickle earlier . Emergency Lieu days and unpaid leave should be pretty easy to grant given the lack of any trains .

 

[Horizon22]

I am, I've been good luckily! Just worry for a few other people, but I think we can see the light at the end of the tunnel now.

When this is all said and done, feel like everyone involved in strike planning and train planning could do with a massive celebration to show just how much has been achieved, and how many things have been done that everyone thought was impossible over the past year.

Yeah planning has been absoutely smashed for probably the last 3 years to be honest.

Some planners are working additionally this weekend to ensure Monday goes back to booked - Saturday is far too late (12 hours from the first reports from RMT & considering the timetable file has to be made and sent off); some could be done short notice by control staff but that would be a really rough job. I know some teams had literally just finished fleet plans for the Saturday strike when the call came in they'd been called off! Trust me when I say it is 99% impossible to muster everything in 12 hours when there's only a few staff (who are not planning experts) able to look at it, on top of their general day jobs.

You can tell which TOCs are able to get planning to assist short notice by which ones can claim to run a normal service on Monday compared to those that can't.

Whether the Friday PM decision to call off strikes starting Saturday morning is a sly ploy to try and make TOCs look incompetent or just a coincidental unfortunate happenstance depends on how cynical a person you are I suppose and your previous experiences with the RMT...

 

[Jan Mayen]

What if there is a gap in the signalling roster, which if there had not been a strike would have been filled by a rest day, but because of the strike no one could be rostered for it? How do you fix that with 15 hours notice?

What if there is a gap in the signalling roster, which if there had not been a strike would have been filled by a rest day, but because of the strike no one could be rostered for it? How do you fix that with 15 hours notice?

What if there is a gap in the signalling roster, which if there had not been a strike would have been filled by a rest day, but because of the strike no one could be rostered for it? How do you fix that with 15 hours notice

If there is a gap, trains can't run. If there isn't, it would be nice to think an emergency shuttle service could be put together. Using the Arun Valley line as an example, I believe it's now controlled by Three Bridges ROC. So I'd like to think that something could be put together which doesn't impact the planned Brighton mainline service.
If it can, great, I'll likely be using it. If it can't, I'll just go somewhere else for a day out tomorrow.

 

[johncrossley]

Are there any planners posting on here? Are they disliked by union members in the same union?

 

[Horizon22]

Are there any planners posting on here? Are they disliked by union members in the same union?

Yes there are some planners in this thread. Why would they be disliked?

 

[johncrossley]

Yes there are some planners in this thread. Why would they be disliked?

It was mentioned earlier that they are being put under severe pressure by their non-planning colleagues.

 

[Horizon22]

It was mentioned earlier that they are being put under severe pressure by their non-planning colleagues.

Okay but I don't see why that would make them disliked; if anything I would suggest there's a bit of ire the other way at the short notice of everything, much like there has been in much of 2022 (and beyond since Covid to be honest). Planners detest "short notice".

 

[johncrossley]

Okay but I don't see why that would make them disliked; if anything I would suggest there's a bit of ire the other way at the short notice of everything, much like there has been in much of 2022 (and beyond since Covid to be honest). Planners detest "short notice".

If the union members liked their planning colleagues better, perhaps they would consider the planners more when planning their industrial action?

 

[306024]

It was mentioned earlier that they are being put under severe pressure by their non-planning colleagues.

The pressure comes from the workload, the accuracy required, and the time available to do it all. Nothing to do with colleagues. Think you are misreading the situation.

Planners have to be thick skinned though, there is always someone who thinks they can do better. Experience shows those people are few and far between.

 

[Horizon22]

If the union members liked their planning colleagues better, perhaps they would consider the planners more when planning their industrial action?

I think that's probably one of the last things on their mind. Much like how many signallers may now have to wake up in a few hours for an early shift.

 

[185143]

Merseyrail will be running a 30 minute service tomorrow, and well into the evening.

Where there's a will, there's a way?

 

[johncrossley]

The pressure comes from the workload, the accuracy required, and the time available to do it all. Nothing to do with colleagues. Think you are misreading the situation.

But the extra work wouldn't exist if there wasn't strike action.

 

[zwk500]

Are there any planners posting on here? Are they disliked by union members in the same union?

It was mentioned earlier that they are being put under severe pressure by their non-planning colleagues.

If the union members liked their planning colleagues better, perhaps they would consider the planners more when planning their industrial action?

Planners are represented by TSSA (Transport and Salaries Staff Assocition), not the RMT. Planners weren't hated by other grades (or that was the sense I had before leaving), and areas of friction that do arise (late changes, planning errors) were generally dealt with amicably in an effort to do the job of running trains. However, the industrial action needs to be disruptive to have any effect and a proverb about making Omelettes comes to mind.

But the extra work wouldn't exist if there wasn't strike action.

You are trying to stir up a conflict that doesn't exist.

 

[306024]

But the extra work wouldn't exist if there wasn't strike action.

Of course, but that's nothing to do with dislike. Naturally some think all planners are clueless, but you get those types in all walks of life.

 

[johncrossley]

You are trying to stir up a conflict that doesn't exist.

How do you explain the earlier comment:

"Terrific effort from some very tired people who have been mucked around by the unions (in some cases by their own union. Not uncoincidentally, those unions members in the planning teams have largely ignored the calls to strike)"

 

[zwk500]

How do you explain the earlier comment:

"Terrific effort from some very tired people who have been mucked around by the unions (in some cases by their own union. Not uncoincidentally, those unions members in the planning teams have largely ignored the calls to strike)"

That comment doesn't suggest any animosity at a member to member level. The unions have mucked people about and there will be frustration toward the top level of unions for that, but the RMT didn't suspend the strikes purely because they wanted to score a point with planners.

 

[Surreytraveller]

And who the here believes this? It's a very clever move I will grant the rail unions, but calling off the strikes hours before they were due to start, and in the full knowledge that the TOCs almost certainly couldn't revive normal service the next day.... Seriously? Now there may have a been a change in government approach, but I seriously doubt that it has happened this afternoon or that there has been a seismic shift in policy.

In the meantime the punters face at least another couple of days of an even crapper service from what is a pretty crap service, whilst many crews will sit and drink tea all day. In would not want to be on the front line this weekend, because there are going to be some seriously peed off punters. This is what I am complaining about.

Its not a clever move by the rail unions. It'll be a move by the DfT to agree to talks knowing that the union will call off the strikes, but that the service will be unable to be reinstated.
A ploy to set public opinion against the unions

 

[Russel]

Lets hope in the next 4 weeks a suitable compromise can be made

RMT, Compromise...

Okay.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Absolutely ridiculous that train services can’t run as normal tomorrow, the drivers are now available for work, the trains themselves aren’t going anywhere, I don’t see why a Saturday service isn’t possible… (and before someone says it is impossible, nothing is if enough effort is made)

I’d say tough, there is literally no reason whatsoever now that a full Saturday service can’t run tomorrow, pay them extra if you have to, just get those services moving…

I think you have completely missed that the world of train planning has been constantly turned upside down week in week out since the start of Covid with a need for ever changing plans. This isn’t just a one off but the latest in a long list of plans needing reworking at the very last minute.

You say pay them extra, there comes a point when enough is enough and many in the train planning fraternity have just reached mental and physical exhaustion and have had enough, valuing their time away from the office more than the extra money. Well you force them to stay and put the plan together I hear you say, well you can’t force anyone to stay in a job and it’s becoming a struggle to retain and recruit train planners.

 

[Bantamzen]

Its not a clever move by the rail unions. It'll be a move by the DfT to agree to talks knowing that the union will call off the strikes, but that the service will be unable to be reinstated.
A ploy to set public opinion against the unions

I'm sorry but in my opinion you are very wrong. The unions have employed someone cynical tactics throughout the dispute, for example having strikes on alternate days so that a two day strike over 3 days leads to up to 4 days disruption. This decision is just an extension of this, they get 3 to 4 days at least of disruption without their members even losing a minutes pay. They know exactly what they are doing.

 

[Bald Rick]

Planners have to be thick skinned though, there is always someone who thinks they can do better.

or smarter

 

[Surreytraveller]

I'm sorry but in my opinion you are very wrong. The unions have employed someone cynical tactics throughout the dispute, for example having strikes on alternate days so that a two day strike over 3 days leads to up to 4 days disruption. This decision is just an extension of this, they get 3 to 4 days at least of disruption without their members even losing a minutes pay. They know exactly what they are doing.

Why would the DfT agree to talks on a Friday afternoon, then? Why not at the beginning of the week?

 

[Class800]

Cross Country have followed suit:

Strike update:

Whilst the strike by the RMT union has been called off, it is too late to change timetables for tomorrow (Sat 05 November).

The current advertised strike timetable will remain in place - you can check train times via http://nationalrail.co.uk.

This is very disappointing. From an outsider perspective it's difficult to understand how any industry works and what the constraints might be. Yet I am aware of how so many businesses can be highly demand responsive such as large consultancies where the targets may change daily and the company and its staffing needs to respond to that. There may be good reasons why the railway can't change timetables with 24 hours notice, but it's a little hard to comprehend

 

[zwk500]

Why would the DfT agree to talks on a Friday afternoon, then? Why not at the beginning of the week?

Both sides are playing games to try and sway public opinion

This is very disappointing. From an outsider perspective it's difficult to understand how any industry works and what the constraints might be. Yet I am aware of how so many businesses can be highly demand responsive such as large consultancies where the targets may change daily and the company and its staffing needs to respond to that. There may be good reasons why the railway can't change timetables with 24 hours notice, but it's a little hard to comprehend

This lack of flexibility is a known problem, but its going to take quite a long time to fix some of the more fundamental problems. However even the most flexible business would have struggled to change a timetable of over 20,000 trains overnight.