Weekends and part-time railway jobs

[m00036]

Apologies for the naivety here, but I'm surprised that I couldn't find a single flexible weekend working job opening when I did a quick browse of railway jobs. Especially given the current strike situation, I would have thought it would be attractive to workers and TOCs alike to offer weekend-only positions for some roles which I'm sure would be attractive both to those who are employed during the week and want additional income on an ad-hoc basis, as well as to those who want an initial opening into a longer-term railway career.

I guess my rationale is that gets incredibly frustrating as a passenger to see 'cancelled due to a shortage of train crew' on the departure board, knowing that I would be more than willing to work one or two weekend days a month to fill untaken slots. I appreciate there will be an upfront training (and recruitment) cost, but I'd have thought it would be beneficial in the long-run, especially if it helps reduce weekend rotas for full time employees (for those that would prefer not to have them).

I am a complete outsider to the careers side of the railways so don't be too critical if I've misunderstood something.

 

[ComUtoR]

Plenty of job shares and part time working at my TOC. Which role were you interested in specifically ?

 

[Sly Sloth]

The railway has never wanted part time but is starting to change that view albeit slowly. 2 members of staff doing the same as 1 full time means double the training and admin. More likely to get part time when you're already working for a toc

 

[m00036]

Plenty of job shares and part time working at my TOC. Which role were you interested in specifically ?

It was more a hypothetical, but I was looking at GWR/SWR (being my rough area) in train guard / station staff roles.

 

[ComUtoR]

It was more a hypothetical, but I was looking at GWR/SWR (being my rough area) in train guard / station staff roles.

The 'Railway' is old, stupid, and very much stuck in its ways. There is a lot of part time / accommodations / flexible working etc. but it never truly works.

Having part time 'fresh out the starting blocks' will be a HUGE hurdle to overcome. I would generally support it but it is insanely complicated to achieve. As someone who worked in the retail sector, I'm not sure if I would welcome that kind of working on 'The Railway' but somewhere between the two is certainly possible.

It does exist, just not for new starters. However, some head office roles advertise as part time / flexible. Operational roles are incredibly complex.

 

[Sly Sloth]

It was more a hypothetical, but I was looking at GWR/SWR (being my rough area) in train guard / station staff roles.

You might get ticket office or platforms part time but very much doubt you’d get a guard role

 

[Wave01]

London Underground had 2 days a week night shift advertised the other day

 

[Roger1973]

Not sure I've seen many weekend only jobs advertised.

Some Train Companies have part time station staff - some ticket offices are only open for the morning peak. I've also seen station / gateline roles advertised on basis of doing 3 or 4 hours in either the morning or the evening peak.

Train crew is not the sort of job you can just do after a couple of days' instruction, so I'd have thought operators may be reluctant to put that much investment in someone who is only going to work at weekends - and then may not want to do every weekend, or may only see it as a short term thing.

Then there's the question of overall working hours / rest time between shifts if someone has a weekday job as well as one that's safety critical.

Some bus companies have some part time rotas for drivers who want to go semi-retired, either working short days, or working (say) three days a week. I don't know if any train operators offer this to staff who are heading towards retirement - maybe it's something the industry could consider if it doesn't?

Rail replacement controller / co-ordinator tends to be a fairly casual role that's mainly weekends - I did it for a couple of years after redundancy and when I was between regular jobs and doing a bit of freelance work that wasn't often time critical. That meant I could do Sunday late duties without having to get up for a regular job on Monday morning, and once I was established, it was fairly rare for me to have a weekend off unless I particularly wanted to.

Just how these are staffed and to what extent varies by train company - First Group have their own rail replacement organisation, with some train operators, they expect the bus operator that's lead contractor on the replacement service to provide controllers.

 

[zwk500]

Especially given the current strike situation, I would have thought it would be attractive to workers and TOCs alike to offer weekend-only positions for some roles
I appreciate there will be an upfront training (and recruitment) cost, but I'd have thought it would be beneficial in the long-run, especially if it helps reduce weekend rotas for full time employees (for those that would prefer not to have them).

I am a complete outsider to the careers side of the railways so don't be too critical if I've misunderstood something.

Just so you're aware, the training requirement for guards is significant and has minimum legal and industry standards. It takes months to train to be a guard or driver, normally the better part of a year or more.
Drivers and guards also need to work over each route on a regular basis, to maintain knowledge. This means they need to work enough shifts to get the rotation in.
Sadly, the costs are just not worth it for bit-part work.

If you are interested in working on the railways and want a part time job, I'd recommend looking at a cafe or bar where you can get a mix of customer facing and kitchen work, which will demonstrate a lot of the skills rail companies look for such as customer service, handling time pressures, handling transactions, working in safety critical environments, working in teams, and thinking on your feet to problem solve.

 

[ComUtoR]

Drivers and guards also need to work over each route on a regular basis, to maintain knowledge. This means they need to work enough shifts to get the rotation in.
Sadly, the costs are just not worth it for bit-part work.

But there are Drivers who do work part time. We have some that only work 2 days a week.

 

[Sly Sloth]

But there are Drivers who do work part time. We have some that only work 2 days a week.

We have part time too but they’re established not off the street.

 

[357]

C2C seem to only offer shunters part time driver jobs, without the possibility to join a full time link for two years. However, adverts externally seem to be for a mixture but more often full time.

I'll let you imagine how that's affected relations between the company and the shunters!

 

[notadriver]

The psychometric tests and medicals and year long course are a significant cost to companies. Maybe these could be done away with for part time drivers - and just let them do a few front end turns before letting them have a few goes?

 

[CC 72100]

The psychometric tests and medicals and year long course are a significant cost to companies. Maybe these could be done away with for part time drivers - and just let them do a few front end turns before letting them have a few goes?

Yeah good luck convincing the ORR with that one

 

[Fittermat]

I couldn’t see any company taking part time staff for safety critical operation roles, 25k plus training, assessment every few months for first 2 years, working a few days a month wouldn’t keep your competencies up and would take years for them to see a return. You normally after pay back training fees if you leave within 2 years. Working 4 days a month you’d be tied in for 10 years. If you want to join the railway it’s with both feet. Saying that if you wanted to do track maintenance there is plenty of company’s who offer 0 hours contacts but have to stick to working time directive with working another job.

 

[ComUtoR]

working a few days a month wouldn’t keep your competencies up

Why wouldn't you keep up your competency ? If existing Drivers manage to do it, why wouldn't a new Driver manage it ?

 

[BoroAndy]

Yeah good luck convincing the ORR with that one

Nevertheless, in this modern ever changing world, with part time and gig working becoming the norm, the railways may have to adapt to allow part time, possibly less skilled, working in all areas including drivers and guards. Example being, look at the current farce on TPE, drivers missing allover the place and no big intake since the adverts of November 2019.

 

[357]

the railways may have to adapt to allow part time, possibly less skilled, working in all areas including drivers and guards.

Sounds great. I'll apply to be a pilot tomorrow, I'm sure a few rides in the front and I'll know what to do in a bird strike.

 

[skyhigh]

But there are Drivers who do work part time. We have some that only work 2 days a week.

A qualified driver moving to working 2 days a week is a completely different kettle of fish to what the OP proposed, which was:

I would be more than willing to work one or two weekend days a month

So with leave etc, a part time driver would be working around 80 turns annually. An off the street 'gap fill' driver as suggested by the OP would be doing in the region of 10-20 turns. With that level of experience, skill fade would be a real issue. You're also coming very close to the idea of zero hour contracts which should be nowhere near the railway.

 

[Fittermat]

Why wouldn't you keep up your competency ? If existing Drivers manage to do it, why wouldn't a new Driver manage it ?

How long would it realistically take to become a driver training 2 days a month? I’m not a driver but work in an operation role and if I was working 4 days a month skills would fade and rulebook becomes blurred. It’s a recipe for disaster.

 

[LowLevel]

Why wouldn't you keep up your competency ? If existing Drivers manage to do it, why wouldn't a new Driver manage it ?

I think attaining competence and confidence is more the issue than maintaining it - an experienced driver going 2 days a week will have settled into the seat, as it were, and should be at the avoiding complacency stage of the conscious/sub conscious (in)competence cycle.

A new driver takes time to settle in and will naturally have less time to do that if they're only working part time, hence a reluctance hitherto to offer it to post qualified staff.

 

[ComUtoR]

A qualified driver moving to working 2 days a week is a completely different kettle of fish to what the OP proposed

I don't believe it's that different. Two days a week is only 8 days a month.

With that level of experience, skill fade would be a real issue.

Our Drivers manage it quite well and don't have that level of skill fade you may be implying. They all manage to keep their competency up to date and I have never know any to have issues with routes or have higher levels of incident.

Part time Drivers seem to work very well and isn't something new. It's something that already exists.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Dec 2022 ==

I’m not a driver but work in an operation role and if I was working 4 days a month skills would fade and rulebook becomes blurred. It’s a recipe for disaster.

As I say, which ses to be overlooked. It already happens and has been fully embraced by the industry. If it was that much of a disaster, it wouldn't happen.

A new driver takes time to settle in and will naturally have less time to do that if they're only working part time,

We all take time settling in and all suffer with skill fade etc. This I understand. It's hard to justify it for one person, and not another when all the evidence is there to see it as being successful.

One of the reasons the railway gets criticised so often is that we don't embrace change or modernise.

If we take the principle that it works, as evidenced by existing Drivers, we could logically extend that to new entrants but put specific safeguards in place to address any concerns.

 

[zwk500]

I don't believe it's that different. Two days a week is only 8 days a month.

I do believe there's a fundamental difference between somebody who used to drive the route day in day out for years dropping down to 2 days a week and somebody never having done more than 2 days a week.

 

[ComUtoR]

I do believe there's a fundamental difference between somebody who used to drive the route day in day out for years dropping down to 2 days a week and somebody never having done more than 2 days a week.

There is also a difference between a Driver who drives a route twice a week compared to one who drives a route once a month or even once in six months.

It would be the same if a depot had a new route introduced and everyone had to learn it new and old Driver alike. Then those with multi routes may only go over it a few times but someone with less route might go over it every single time they drive. Who then becomes the most competent ?

These things are just hurdles easily overcome.

 

[LowLevel]

There is also a difference between a Driver who drives a route twice a week compared to one who drives a route once a month or even once in six months.

It would be the same if a depot had a new route introduced and everyone had to learn it new and old Driver alike. Then those with multi routes may only go over it a few times but someone with less route might go over it every single time they drive. Who then becomes the most competent ?

These things are just hurdles easily overcome.

There's routes and actually getting into driving though. You can't beat getting those hours in the seat under your belt. I am less than convinced that passing someone out off the street and chucking them into driving a couple of times a week is sensible. I don't manage them but I do work closely with drivers and the difference a few months on their own makes is huge.

They'll be mandated to work full time in the class room, so a minimum period of full time post qualified handling before allowing part time work would if you ask me be a sensible reasonable adjustable to allow for flexible working. Is someone going to want to work full time in training for so long to eventually be able to work part time is another, driver training isn't exactly a quick process.

It is a well paid job with no shortage of applicants, is there much point in restricting yourself as an employer when every vacancy attracts thousands of applicants is a secondary consideration.

 

[m00036]

Thank you all for your replies, this makes a lot more sense.

 

[AF91]

Apologies if this has been said earlier in the thread, but for safety critical staff, part time work would give challenges for competency management. I think it could work for short routes with frequent stops as you're experiencing lots of stuff per shift.

 

[BoroAndy]

Maybe this is being looked at for the wrong type of employee. Experienced drivers moving to part time saves on some retirements, but new young drivers coming in would probably not work, plus why would someone young coming into a career want to be part time? However, what about older life experienced people, who have common sense, proven reliability and low sickness level, and are interested in part time driving?

 

[the sniper]

There's routes and actually getting into driving though. You can't beat getting those hours in the seat under your belt. I am less than convinced that passing someone out off the street and chucking them into driving a couple of times a week is sensible.

I entirely agree.

 

[skyhigh]

I don't believe it's that different. Two days a week is only 8 days a month.

But it's very different moving from years of full time driving to 2 days a week than from no experience moving up to 2 days a month. I don't know of any trainees that are recruited to work part time (though I think C2C might be the one TOC that does it?)

Our Drivers manage it quite well and don't have that level of skill fade you may be implying. They all manage to keep their competency up to date and I have never know any to have issues with routes or have higher levels of incident.

Again I think that ties into the background experience that years of driving have built up. I know my core route well enough that I'd still know it even if I drove it once a month. But if I hadn't had hundreds of hours experience driving it, that knowledge retention wouldn't be there (in my opinion).

Part time Drivers seem to work very well and isn't something new. It's something that already exists.

To be clear, I am 100% in favour of introducing more flexible options of working for traincrew. Part time, permanent earlies/lates etc are nothing but a good thing in my opinion. But I don't think what the OP is suggesting would work. I honestly think 2 days a week is probably the lowest you could realistically go for a newly qualified driver.