Driver service history for my ex-driver dad - Newton Heath, Patricroft?

[Springs Branch]

I think Patricroft was a more 'mundane' shed, without any 'glamour' express turns like N Heath. Certainly towards the end it was largely Black 5s and Standard 5s - I think these maybe worked parcels and semi-fasts and stopping services towards Liverpool - not sure if they worked over to Leeds, or if they were Newton Heath turns.

Patricroft was a onetime-LNWR shed, and to the end did work on the "north side" LNWR lines at Manchester, through Exchange station. . . . . Turns to Liverpool Lime Street, Leeds, Chester and North Wales, Preston etc and Crewe via Chat Moss. The main Manchester docks (actually in Salford) were also their territory.

Although Patricroft didn't appear to supply locos for express passenger turns towards the end of its days, it still provided motive power for a good few Class 1 trains in the form of overnight Newspaper and Mail trains out of Manchester.

I have a Working Timetable which puts a bit more flesh on the bones of the 1968 workings ex-Patricroft listed in my earlier post #25.
So Patricroft provided locos for:-

1P55 Man Exch. to Barrow-in-Furness News (routed via Bolton line)
1D90 01:18 Man Exch. - Chester News (via Earlestown & Warrington BQ)
1F51 01:25 Man Exch. - Liverpool Lime St Mail & Parcels (via Chat Moss, Wigan NW & St Helens Shaw St)
1N94 02:15 Man Vic. - Leeds City News (via Stalybridge & Diggle)*
1F54 03:23 Man Exch. - Liverpool Lime St News (direct via Earlestown)

Unfortunately my timetable only covers Passenger and Parcels trains, so I've not been able to find any details of the intriguing 03:30 to Bescot. Where was the train's origin (Salford Docks? Manchester Liverpool Rd maybe?), and did it run via Earlestown, or the South Junction line & Piccadilly? This would provide one explanation of how the OP's dad came to be manning trains to Crewe.

* The Leeds Newspapers was booked from platform 11 Middle – so I suppose that was ½ Victoria, ½ Exchange!
Patricroft provided two separate locos for this one - a steam engine to bring the empty stock from Red Bank Sidings into Victoria, then a diesel to haul the loaded train over to Leeds - both engines running separately off shed with headcodes 0N94 according to the WTT.

 

[Harvester]

The 17:37 FO Manchester Ex-York passenger was a Patricroft duty in 1967, although the crew would probably work no further than Leeds. It was last steam hauled on 29/12/67 by Britannia 70013. During the last months of 1967 the working was part of a Kingmoor cyclic diagram, with the loco (often a Brit) booked onto Patricroft shed for servicing prior to working the 17:37.

 

[WesternLancer]

Couple of thoughts that might help ref tracking down former colleagues - which would work if retired or still serving staff who remembered your dad read them

The BR pension fund newsletter 'letters page' - I recall when looking at my late father in law's copy of this (the glossy magazine they send out - PDF copies shown here (see page 12-14 of the Autumn Winter one downloadable here) people would write in with that sort of request - and that presumably gets sent to everyone who is in receipt of a railway service pension - not sure why it only has a British Transport Police logo on the web page but this is what I was thinking of.

Penfriend

The newsletter for retired members of the Fund.

btppensions.co.uk

Also - do retired staff often subscribe to Railnews / does it still have copies left around mess rooms etc? IIRC this was once the inhouse BR staff newspaper. A similar letter to them asking for contacts / recollections might be worth a try.

Rail industry news from Railnews | Today's news for Tomorrow's railway

The rail industry's leading newspaper and news resource, covering all topics from around the industry - from the staff, to the businesses and politics that influence today's railway

www.railnews.co.uk

Obviously that would be on top of the excellent ideas about contacting local ASLEF branches.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Wow that's amazing! Not only the numbers but to find a connection with someone who was there at the time is incredible, thank you.

Oh, I'm sure there are others who have this and similar information for the last day(s) of operation.

As a spotting exercise however, this visit to Patricroft was a total failure - no new 'cops' for me.

Nice to know, however, that some 54.5 years after that visit (I remember the evening sun shining across the dead cortege of locomotives) it brings somone joy

By the way, nobody has mentioned it, but from memory one approached Patricroft from a footbridge, which then led down into the shed yard. Not sure if that's correct, or some perversion of reality after all these years.

 

[david_g]

By the way, nobody has mentioned it, but from memory one approached Patricroft from a footbridge, which then led down into the shed yard. Not sure if that's correct, or some perversion of reality after all these years.

From the Locmotive Shed Directory:

Turn left outside Patricroft Station along a narrow road running parallel to the railway, and continue into Hampden Grove. A footbridge leads from the left hand side of this road to the shed. Walking time 5 minutes.

Not underlined in my copy as it had closed before I started visiting sheds (too young), but I must have seen Patricroft locomotives on trains through Huddersfield. Disappointingly, there is no cinder path mentioned.

 

[Daszer]

Although Patricroft didn't appear to supply locos for express passenger turns towards the end of its days, it still provided motive power for a good few Class 1 trains in the form of overnight Newspaper and Mail trains out of Manchester.

I have a Working Timetable which puts a bit more flesh on the bones of the 1968 workings ex-Patricroft listed in my earlier post #25.
So Patricroft provided locos for:-

1P55 Man Exch. to Barrow-in-Furness News (routed via Bolton line)
1D90 01:18 Man Exch. - Chester News (via Earlestown & Warrington BQ)
1F51 01:25 Man Exch. - Liverpool Lime St Mail & Parcels (via Chat Moss, Wigan NW & St Helens Shaw St)
1N94 02:15 Man Vic. - Leeds City News (via Stalybridge & Diggle)*
1F54 03:23 Man Exch. - Liverpool Lime St News (direct via Earlestown)

Unfortunately my timetable only covers Passenger and Parcels trains, so I've not been able to find any details of the intriguing 03:30 to Bescot. Where was the train's origin (Salford Docks? Manchester Liverpool Rd maybe?), and did it run via Earlestown, or the South Junction line & Piccadilly? This would provide one explanation of how the OP's dad came to be manning trains to Crewe.

* The Leeds Newspapers was booked from platform 11 Middle – so I suppose that was ½ Victoria, ½ Exchange!
Patricroft provided two separate locos for this one - a steam engine to bring the empty stock from Red Bank Sidings into Victoria, then a diesel to haul the loaded train over to Leeds - both engines running separately off shed with headcodes 0N94 according to the WTT.

Great info, cheers, it really pads out my knowledge of how Patricroft worked. The only thing I remember my ol fella saying about the news trains was that they "got fined £100 for every minute they're late!", a fact he loved telling me.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jan 2023 ==

Couple of thoughts that might help ref tracking down former colleagues - which would work if retired or still serving staff who remembered your dad read them

The BR pension fund newsletter 'letters page' - I recall when looking at my late father in law's copy of this (the glossy magazine they send out - PDF copies shown here (see page 12-14 of the Autumn Winter one downloadable here) people would write in with that sort of request - and that presumably gets sent to everyone who is in receipt of a railway service pension - not sure why it only has a British Transport Police logo on the web page but this is what I was thinking of.

Penfriend

The newsletter for retired members of the Fund.

btppensions.co.uk

Also - do retired staff often subscribe to Railnews / does it still have copies left around mess rooms etc? IIRC this was once the inhouse BR staff newspaper. A similar letter to them asking for contacts / recollections might be worth a try.

Rail industry news from Railnews | Today's news for Tomorrow's railway

The rail industry's leading newspaper and news resource, covering all topics from around the industry - from the staff, to the businesses and politics that influence today's railway

www.railnews.co.uk

Obviously that would be on top of the excellent ideas about contacting local ASLEF branches.

lovely stuff, thank you.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jan 2023 ==

Oh, I'm sure there are others who have this and similar information for the last day(s) of operation.

As a spotting exercise however, this visit to Patricroft was a total failure - no new 'cops' for me.

Nice to know, however, that some 54.5 years after that visit (I remember the evening sun shining across the dead cortege of locomotives) it brings somone joy

By the way, nobody has mentioned it, but from memory one approached Patricroft from a footbridge, which then led down into the shed yard. Not sure if that's correct, or some perversion of reality after all these years.

Aw shame you never got any new ones but it certainly made me happy. Also I was wondering when I noticed your user name, I don't suppose you know anything about 70015 Apollo do you that my dad claims came out of a tunnel (possibly Standedge?) with the front wheels on fire? We reckon the date was around 66' so was wondering if you spotted it locally during that period?

 

[Ken H]

Check out nls.maps. lots of old maps. You can see the layout of the railway facilities.

 

[Bevan Price]

Before dieselisation, Patricroft used to have at least one working each way between Liverpool & Leeds on the Liverpool/Newcastle services.

 

[WesternLancer]

Aw shame you never got any new ones but it certainly made me happy. Also I was wondering when I noticed your user name, I don't suppose you know anything about 70015 Apollo do you that my dad claims came out of a tunnel (possibly Standedge?) with the front wheels on fire? We reckon the date was around 66' so was wondering if you spotted it locally during that period?

I found this page with a lengthy entry on Apollo that may interest you - looks like it may only have been at the sheds your dad worked from for relatively short period(s) which may help narrow things down for you.

David Heys steam diesel photo collection - 91 - BR BRITANNIA CLASS 7 - 2

davidheyscollection.myshopblocks.com

towards lower half of the web page - tho don't think it mentions the fire incident - tho that would probably have required your dad and other footplate man to report it to start with I guess.

 

[Daszer]

Check out nls.maps. lots of old maps. You can see the layout of the railway facilities.

Spot on, thanks

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jan 2023 ==

I found this page with a lengthy entry on Apollo that may interest you - looks like it may only have been at the sheds your dad worked from for relatively short period(s) which may help narrow things down for you.

David Heys steam diesel photo collection - 91 - BR BRITANNIA CLASS 7 - 2

davidheyscollection.myshopblocks.com

towards lower half of the web page - tho don't think it mentions the fire incident - tho that would probably have required your dad and other footplate man to report it to start with I guess.

Excellent link, cheers, the bit at the bottom about it being on the Micklehurst Loop from Stalybridge and on freight around Manchester for much of 1966 conforms exactly to the time of the fire incident so that is incredibly useful. You never know when someone is suffering from memory loss if they get their facts right but it seems he was perfectly accurate on that one! He also referred to many locos by their numbers and memorised almost every one that way. Can I ask is that a common thing to do for ex drivers and the railway community? Guessing it is.

 

[WesternLancer]

Excellent link, cheers, the bit at the bottom about it being on the Micklehurst Loop from Stalybridge and on freight around Manchester for much of 1966 conforms exactly to the time of the fire incident so that is incredibly useful. You never know when someone is suffering from memory loss if they get their facts right but it seems he was perfectly accurate on that one! He also referred to many locos by their numbers and memorised almost every one that way. Can I ask is that a common thing to do for ex drivers and the railway community? Guessing it is.

That's good - glad that linked up! I don't know it myself but the Micklehurst Loop seems to feature quite often on these forums - if you have an interest in the route if it was one your dad regularly worked on, one thread links to this excellent blog by @rogerfarnworth

The Micklehurst Loop – Part 1

During January 2021, my wife and I walked the majority of the length of the Micklehurst Loop from Stalybridge to Diggle. This was the goods relieving line for the main Stalybridge to Huddersfield r…

rogerfarnworth.com

Ref numbers - whilst I can't speak for drivers (tho what you say seems likely) I know that enthusiasts I know (trainspotters as well as non spotters but with railway interest) do have a remarkable and accurate recollection of loco numbers and related info, train running numbers etc, often going back decades into the memory, so I would say indeed common. An impressive skill in my view.

 

[Daszer]

That's good - glad that linked up! I don't know it myself but the Micklehurst Loop seems to feature quite often on these forums - if you have an interest in the route if it was one your dad regularly worked on, one thread links to this excellent blog by @rogerfarnworth

The Micklehurst Loop – Part 1

During January 2021, my wife and I walked the majority of the length of the Micklehurst Loop from Stalybridge to Diggle. This was the goods relieving line for the main Stalybridge to Huddersfield r…

rogerfarnworth.com

Ref numbers - whilst I can't speak for drivers (tho what you say seems likely) I know that enthusiasts I know (trainspotters as well as non spotters but with railway interest) do have a remarkable and accurate recollection of loco numbers and related info, train running numbers etc, often going back decades into the memory, so I would say indeed common. An impressive skill in my view.

That's a great link thanks, I can see that it stretched at the top to Standedge as well which could link in with the incident so we may be getting somewhere.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jan 2023 ==

Another incident in my Dad's service history is something that is an uncomfortable subject which sadly was a pedestrian fatality when he was a fireman. There was an inquest and the driver and him were absolved of all blame and I would normally not bother chasing it up as it's not a pleasant topic. However my aunty, his sister, recently told me that afterwards for a short while he joined a working party for railway safety so I think it's something to be proud of as part of his history. That said, does anyone know where I can find such information please? I spent a while looking at a list of railway accidents here but it never reveals anything apart from two fatalities for the whole period of his start in 56 to fireman in 68: https://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/eventlisting.php

 

[Springs Branch]

By the way, nobody has mentioned it, but from memory one approached Patricroft from a footbridge, which then led down into the shed yard. Not sure if that's correct, or some perversion of reality after all these years.

That footbridge certainly seems to have been a characteristic feature of Patricroft shed. Many of the 'shed panorama' photos from the later days were taken from the bridge and it appears in the background of others. Unfortunately for me, Patricroft shed had closed well before I was old enough to venture there on my own (via Lancashire United's number 14 bus from Swinton) and 'tread the cinder path' myself.

One example of a photo, showing a glimpse of the bridge, is on Flickr at this link:-
https://www.flickr.com/photos/loose_grip_99/199403278

The extensive comments in the Flickr post give some interesting anecdotes about Patricroft shed:-

• The massive concrete coaling plant was allegedly known locally as 'King Kong's Piano'.
• A visit to the area 14 years ago indicated the access point to the old footbridge on Hampden Grove had been bricked up.
• Several references to the book The Last Whistle:The Story of Patricroft M.P.D (@Daszer - have you seen this book? Sounds very relevant to you.) together with a quote from the book's author, Tom Pike:-
  

  A final tale of the shed bridge, Tom recalls the employees all refered to the bridge, as "The Bridge of Sigh's" This derived from the departure of all the drivers and fireman, going off shift, all filled their pockets with lumps of coal, to keep the home fires burning.
  Approaching the bridge, friendly bets were extended to their colleagues that the unfit ones would not manage to reach the top of the two flights of steps to the bridge platform.
  Many sigh's were heard from the unfit with the heavy coal, and possibly the sigh from the old lattice bridge, creaking under the strain, Perhaps that is why they needed to replace it with a new tubular model?

• Another comment on Flickr from an ex-Patricroft man, Barry Wilson:-
  

  I remember cutting up lumps of coal to just the right size to fit in my haversack, usually the best coal that was brought in for the newspaper engine that ran to Scotland every night at midnight.

  Presumably the good coal was reserved for these trains to avoid that £100 per minute fines for late running mentioned by the OP's dad.

The most interesting allocation for me on that list there is the 82xxx tanks in 1965-6. I wonder what they worked?

Work for 3MT or 5MT tank engines from Patricroft would certainly have diminished by the mid-1960s. These classes of tank engines were a mainstay of Manchester Ex. - Tyldesley - Wigan NW local passengers until the stopping service was withdrawn in Nov. 1964. They were also used on trains from Bolton Great Moor St to Manchester Exchange or Kenyon Junction, although both these routes had closed to passengers well before Beeching.

Patricroft's 82xxx 2-6-2Ts do get a mention with a couple of photos in Dennis Sweeney's book A Lancashire Triangle Part 1.
One caption relating to 82009 says:-

A number of these locomotives had been transferred to Patricroft on the closure of Machynlleth shed and unfortunately were not very popular with Patricroft crews as often they were thirsty little engines. An example being when rostered to work the Manchester Exchange to Preston trains and despite departing from Exchange with a full tank having to fill again at Wigan North Western.

Possibly another unwelcome chore for the OP's dad when firing!

There are a few photos of the BR Standard 3MTs based at Patricroft. They usually seem to be just pottering about the sidings in the vicinity of the shed. In one case, one is acting as shed pilot, coupled to a single open wagon carrying a bit of something or other; in another - appropriately enough - it's filling up at the water tank. As @70014IronDuke intimated, the trains they had been transferred to Manchester to haul would have been either withdrawn or largely taken over by DMUs by this time.

 

[Gloster]

That's a great link thanks, I can see that it stretched at the top to Standedge as well which could link in with the incident so we may be getting somewhere.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jan 2023 ==

Another incident in my Dad's service history is something that is an uncomfortable subject which sadly was a pedestrian fatality when he was a fireman. There was an inquest and the driver and him were absolved of all blame and I would normally not bother chasing it up as it's not a pleasant topic. However my aunty, his sister, recently told me that afterwards for a short while he joined a working party for railway safety so I think it's something to be proud of as part of his history. That said, does anyone know where I can find such information please? I spent a while looking at a list of railway accidents here but it never reveals anything apart from two fatalities for the whole period of his start in 56 to fireman in 68: https://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/eventlisting.php

Railways Archive covers accident of sufficient importance to warrant a formal inquiry. A train hitting a member of staff or a member of the public, which is what this sounds like, would probably result in no more than a low level internal inquiry: quite possibly this would be an interview with a couple of members of the local management and the typing up of a summary of the statements made by those involved. There would probably have been a coroner’s inquest, at which he might have given evidence, although he might just be listed as ‘the fireman’. It is likely that nowadays the only extant record is in back copies of the local newspaper, if they still exist. Finding the correct incident in all the newspapers available would be a mammoth job that might not succeed.

 

[Daszer]

Railways Archive covers accident of sufficient importance to warrant a formal inquiry. A train hitting a member of staff or a member of the public, which is what this sounds like, would probably result in no more than a low level internal inquiry: quite possibly this would be an interview with a couple of members of the local management and the typing up of a summary of the statements made by those involved. There would probably have been a coroner’s inquest, at which he might have given evidence, although he might just be listed as ‘the fireman’. It is likely that nowadays the only extant record is in back copies of the local newspaper, if they still exist. Finding the correct incident in all the newspapers available would be a mammoth job that might not succeed.

Thanks for that information and yes that certainly seems to fit dad's recounting. It was a person who had wandered onto the line so an open and shut case I guess. He did go to the inquest but only the driver was called upon to give evidence whom sadly left the railway within a year due to the stress. I will check the newspapers though like I mentioned I'm not bothered about pursuing it too far, might be a good hint to leave it well alone and focus on the positives if his service instead.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jan 2023 ==

That footbridge certainly seems to have been a characteristic feature of Patricroft shed. Many of the 'shed panorama' photos from the later days were taken from the bridge and it appears in the background of others. Unfortunately for me, Patricroft shed had closed well before I was old enough to venture there on my own (via Lancashire United's number 14 bus from Swinton) and 'tread the cinder path' myself.

One example of a photo, showing a glimpse of the bridge, is on Flickr at this link:-
https://www.flickr.com/photos/loose_grip_99/199403278

The extensive comments in the Flickr post give some interesting anecdotes about Patricroft shed:-

• The massive concrete coaling plant was allegedly known locally as 'King Kong's Piano'.
• A visit to the area 14 years ago indicated the access point to the old footbridge on Hampden Grove had been bricked up.
• Several references to the book The Last Whistle:The Story of Patricroft M.P.D (@Daszer - have you seen this book? Sounds very relevant to you.) together with a quote from the book's author, Tom Pike:-
• Another comment on Flickr from an ex-Patricroft man, Barry Wilson:-
  
  Presumably the good coal was reserved for these trains to avoid that £100 per minute fines for late running mentioned by the OP's dad.

Work for 3MT or 5MT tank engines from Patricroft would certainly have diminished by the mid-1960s. These classes of tank engines were a mainstay of Manchester Ex. - Tyldesley - Wigan NW local passengers until the stopping service was withdrawn in Nov. 1964. They were also used on trains from Bolton Great Moor St to Manchester Exchange or Kenyon Junction, although both these routes had closed to passengers well before Beeching.

Patricroft's 82xxx 2-6-2Ts do get a mention with a couple of photos in Dennis Sweeney's book A Lancashire Triangle Part 1.
One caption relating to 82009 says:-

Possibly another unwelcome chore for the OP's dad when firing!

There are a few photos of the BR Standard 3MTs based at Patricroft. They usually seem to be just pottering about the sidings in the vicinity of the shed. In one case, one is acting as shed pilot, coupled to a single open wagon carrying a bit of something or other; in another - appropriately enough - it's filling up at the water tank. As @70014IronDuke intimated, the trains they had been transferred to Manchester to haul would have been either withdrawn or largely taken over by DMUs by this time.

Excellent detail, thanks. I'll look at the Flickr and yes a copy of the last whistle arrived yesterday really good volume and brings a lot of dad's experience to life for me including him probably being lowered into the massive coal hopper on a rope to clean it! He was only a skinny fella so that is highly likely!

 

[Ken H]

Railways Archive covers accident of sufficient importance to warrant a formal inquiry. A train hitting a member of staff or a member of the public, which is what this sounds like, would probably result in no more than a low level internal inquiry: quite possibly this would be an interview with a couple of members of the local management and the typing up of a summary of the statements made by those involved. There would probably have been a coroner’s inquest, at which he might have given evidence, although he might just be listed as ‘the fireman’. It is likely that nowadays the only extant record is in back copies of the local newspaper, if they still exist. Finding the correct incident in all the newspapers available would be a mammoth job that might not succeed.

National library at colindale have copies of many papers and magazines. They have a website with a search but i have not used it for years.
An inquest should still have extant records. Try national archives or department of justice
Once you have a name and death date you can get a death cert. That will have cause of death. Buy from ONS. There are agenfs who will get one for you for a fee but the ONS site works well enough.
You can search for Birth Death and marriages at FreeBMD website.

Remember, computer searches on transcriptions of old paper records can be flakey. The original may be wrong. Or transcription errors may have crept in. Try variant spellings. Think how a slightly deaf clerk may hear a name said in a strong regional accent and try that.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Aw shame you never got any new ones but it certainly made me happy. Also I was wondering when I noticed your user name, I don't suppose you know anything about 70015 Apollo do you that my dad claims came out of a tunnel (possibly Standedge?) with the front wheels on fire? We reckon the date was around 66' so was wondering if you spotted it locally during that period?

No, sorry. I'm fairly sure I saw Apollo on the Midland, when Brits were still working St Pancras - Man Cen expresses (up to about early 1961), so I'd guess then it was a Trafford Park loco then, but I have no specific recollection of my nearest brother

 

[Daszer]

No, sorry. I'm fairly sure I saw Apollo on the Midland, when Brits were still working St Pancras - Man Cen expresses (up to about early 1961), so I'd guess then it was a Trafford Park loco then, but I have no specific recollection of my nearest brother

Ah ok, worth asking!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Jan 2023 ==

National library at colindale have copies of many papers and magazines. They have a website with a search but i have not used it for years.
An inquest should still have extant records. Try national archives or department of justice
Once you have a name and death date you can get a death cert. That will have cause of death. Buy from ONS. There are agenfs who will get one for you for a fee but the ONS site works well enough.
You can search for Birth Death and marriages at FreeBMD website.

Remember, computer searches on transcriptions of old paper records can be flakey. The original may be wrong. Or transcription errors may have crept in. Try variant spellings. Think how a slightly deaf clerk may hear a name said in a strong regional accent and try that.

That's great, thanks a lot, much appreciated.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Jan 2023 ==

I found this page with a lengthy entry on Apollo that may interest you - looks like it may only have been at the sheds your dad worked from for relatively short period(s) which may help narrow things down for you.

David Heys steam diesel photo collection - 91 - BR BRITANNIA CLASS 7 - 2

davidheyscollection.myshopblocks.com

towards lower half of the web page - tho don't think it mentions the fire incident - tho that would probably have required your dad and other footplate man to report it to start with I guess.

I’ve just had a re-read of that article and saw this at the bottom which instantly reminded me that this was exactly what he said on fire, the oil, “Engines were lubricated using a 'total loss' system in which the expended oil spilled onto the track. A locomotive used roughly one pint of mineral oil for each axle for every 100 miles travelled (about 1 litre for every 300 km). There were up to sixty lubrication points on a large steam locomotive, and replenishing the oil could take an hour.”
I can’t recall anything more about why he said it set on fire (could they have been braking exiting the tunnel? If so is there a tunnel around that area which emerges on a slight down gradient that anyone knows of?) but being able to put these pieces together like this is brilliant.