Supermarkets discussion

[Hadders]

That is annoying, I agree! My Sainburys store has just also introduced a barrier in order to exit, so you must take a receipt from the checkout and scan it at the barrier to leave the store. I have no idea why you can't pay on the smartscan app and just leave - it would also save the self checkouts for others.

Think about how many would just leave without paying. There’s your answer!

Barriers to exit are common on the continent, I suspect they will be a pretty rapid roll out in the UK.

 

[DC1989]

But you could scan your e-receipt to leave.

Personally I don't see what the barriers add, surely if you were going to steal from there you would buy a banana for 18p and put the steak in your pocket. You then get the receipt to leave the store and have your free juicy steak

 

[jon0844]

Sainsbury's seem to have two different systems (albeit with the same app).

In a supermarket, you just login and it detects you and off you go - but you must go to a checkout to tally up and pay. Many of these stores (presumably all eventually) now have a gate to scan the receipt, although it isn't yet operational at my store. This is also when you get printed vouchers from the till.

At the metro locations, you scan a barcode when you enter and another to leave (being able to pay on your phone). I expect it must know you're near a metro store to change the process, so it's an intentional decision. You can't get vouchers this way*.

We all know that people are stealing loads of items every day and the supermarkets seem content with it given the savings on staff, but I am not sure that having to scan your receipt to leave will help much. Are they going to inspect your bags/trolley like they used to do back when I shopped at Makro? Those checks were laughable (think of the famous video of a steward outside a football stadium doing a supposed check by just moving his arms up and down).

It will be interesting to see how different companies do things, as they are clearly aware of the problems they have - but are trying different ideas to fix the problem (without going back to employing staff of course).

* Since my earlier post, I have had an email from Sainsbury's showing offers that I can get this week! But these aren't unique offers for me, more a list of the deals they're doing... so no extra points or money off for spending £xx.

 

[hexagon789]

But you could scan your e-receipt to leave.

Personally I don't see what the barriers add, surely if you were going to steal from there you would buy a banana for 18p and put the steak in your pocket. You then get the receipt to leave the store and have your free juicy steak

Asides from the fact that most steaks (along with other high value meat/desirable items) are security tagged now; self-scans are nowadays programmed with the weight of items to prevent such things.

 

[jon0844]

Asides from the fact that most steaks (along with other high value meat/desirable items) are security tagged now; self-scans are nowadays programmed with the weight of items to prevent such things.

Stores are increasingly getting rid of scales for bags, presumably because so many people can now self scan and bag as they shop.

It therefore makes sense to try and find other ways to detect this fraud, such as making you stand at a gate and be given a check. But when there are going to be a lot of people waiting, given so many stores now have 20-30+ self checkouts (and self scanning users can use all of them, at least in Asda and Tesco), how thorough are they going to be? Who will risk accusing someone of theft and end up on TikTok or Twitter with calls for them to be sacked?

I guess it will be there simply to try and put people off, like a train station gateline tries to stop people chancing it - while some will just push through without a care in the world. In the supermarket case, they won't push through, but they'll gladly tap a barcode for a receipt that doesn't include everything in their trolley/bag/pocket*.

* I usually self scan even for a couple of items, so have been known to put them in my pocket when I forgot to bring a bag. I've also mixed my shopping with other things bought elsewhere when I only have one bag.

Oh and I've seen items in Sainsbury's that say they have tags, but staff have said they actually aren't. I've never yet had to give a steak or similar to staff to sort, just clothing with physical tags (as against the pinned on ones that in many cases you can just tear off). Again, this makes you think a lot of it is security theatre and a big bluff.

 

[hexagon789]

Oh and I've seen items in Sainsbury's that say they have tags, but staff have said they actually aren't. I've never yet had to give a steak or similar to staff to sort, just clothing with physical tags (as against the pinned on ones that in many cases you can just tear off). Again, this makes you think a lot of it is security theatre and a big bluff.

All our steaks are tagged and they don't require staff intervention, they deactivate by being scanned through a till.

 

[jon0844]

All our steaks are tagged and they don't require staff intervention, they deactivate by being scanned through a till.

I scan and put items in my bag. Not yet triggered the alarm at the exit to the self checkout or the shop itself (Sainsbury's).

 

[AM9]

Morrisons yesterday

"Offer" on J2O - 2 4x275ml packs for £5 - B&M regular price 10x275ml for £6
"Offer" on cakes (eclairs etc.) - 2 for £3.50 - Tesco regular price around £1.50 - £1.60 for the same individual items

Not that I particularly agree with Tesco essentially forcing you to have a clubcard and as a result all your data being collected in order to avoid being essentially ripped off either!

I've never undestood this objection that some people have about needing some sort of loyalty card to benefit from special offers. I really don't care that my regular supermarket (in my case, Waitrose) knows what I buy from them and when I buy it. Everybody is free to pay the undiscounted price or go to another shop that doesn't want that particular information of its customers, in your case, Morrisons or B&M. My ID isn't that precious that I mistrust every retailer in the country with it given the legal constraints that they must work within.

 

[jon0844]

I think it wise to shop around and loyalty cards are obviously there to keep you loyal to one store, with the obvious risk that if you do then over time you may not be treated as well as a new customer (see Sky as a good example where 'loyal' customers may be paying 60% more than a new customer or someone who haggled via the retentions team). Companies LOVE apathy.

I now have loads of loyalty cards, and thankfully most of them are accessible easily via my Google Wallet, but frankly I'm now finding it too much hassle to jump through loads of hoops to benefit.

Sometimes you'll need to activate an offer, or select a product you want a discount on, or you get vouchers that will have an expiry date etc.

Now we find that it seems more like you pay MORE for not having a loyalty card than paying less for having one, IYSWIM.

I wouldn't be surprised if more people aren't just thinking 'to hell with it' and just shopping at places like Aldi because you save money there and then. Sure you're not getting some points that might get you a discount on a holiday or Merlin pass etc, but you're saving money NOW when you actually need it most.

(To clarify; I have no issue with signing up to schemes and giving them personal details. I'm currently getting 50p for every receipt I upload to Amazon and 13p to Google. I am sharing my life for rewards, and willingly doing so).

 

[hexagon789]

I scan and put items in my bag. Not yet triggered the alarm at the exit to the self checkout or the shop itself (Sainsbury's).

You've scanned them though, so they shouldn't set the alarm off. That's what I was saying.

 

[skyhigh]

You've scanned them though, so they shouldn't set the alarm off. That's what I was saying.

But how does that work with Scan and go/SmartShop? I can't see any way my smartphone could disable a security tag simply by scanning the barcode with the camera.

 

[jon0844]

You've scanned them though, so they shouldn't set the alarm off. That's what I was saying.

I scan with my phone using the phone camera so I really can't see how a tag can be deactivated. And I can just as easily change my mind, cancel the scan and put the item back. How does that work? Does the tag get reactivated?!

M&S use cardboard price tags with embedded NFC/RFID chips (I guess Decathlon must too, as you put items in a box to scan all at once) but these are easily cut or yanked off. Not sure what protection they give.

I think there are some major flaws with this supposed security!

 

[AM9]

I think it wise to shop around and loyalty cards are obviously there to keep you loyal to one store, with the obvious risk that if you do then over time you may not be treated as well as a new customer (see Sky as a good example where 'loyal' customers may be paying 60% more than a new customer or someone who haggled via the retentions team). Companies LOVE apathy.

I now have loads of loyalty cards, and thankfully most of them are accessible easily via my Google Wallet, but frankly I'm now finding it too much hassle to jump through loads of hoops to benefit.

Sometimes you'll need to activate an offer, or select a product you want a discount on, or you get vouchers that will have an expiry date etc.

Now we find that it seems more like you pay MORE for not having a loyalty card than paying less for having one, IYSWIM.

I wouldn't be surprised if more people aren't just thinking 'to hell with it' and just shopping at places like Aldi because you save money there and then. Sure you're not getting some points that might get you a discount on a holiday or Merlin pass etc, but you're saving money NOW when you actually need it most.

(To clarify; I have no issue with signing up to schemes and giving them personal details. I'm currently getting 50p for every receipt I upload to Amazon and 13p to Google. I am sharing my life for rewards, and willingly doing so).

For me, the John Lewis/Waitrose loyalty schemes (JL credit card, 'My JL' card, 'My Waitrose' card) are a no-brainer, I get:

5 points for every £4 spent in JL/WR​

Every 3 months, every 500 points = 1 x £5 gift voucher, remainder of points roll over *​

Apart from promotions, there are also occasional JL vouchers for a coffee and cake at the instore cafeteria​

Two Waitrose discount vouchers from a choice of eight every week and a free newspaper voucher every day​

A free cup of coffee when I visit the supermarket.​

So far I accumulate enough vouchers to replace my main TV every 8-10 years.
I think that's a fair deal for just giving JL visibility of my spending on grocery and occasional other items.

 

[DC1989]

Sainsbury's seem to have two different systems (albeit with the same app).

In a supermarket, you just login and it detects you and off you go - but you must go to a checkout to tally up and pay. Many of these stores (presumably all eventually) now have a gate to scan the receipt, although it isn't yet operational at my store. This is also when you get printed vouchers from the till.

At the metro locations, you scan a barcode when you enter and another to leave (being able to pay on your phone). I expect it must know you're near a metro store to change the process, so it's an intentional decision. You can't get vouchers this way*.

Interesting you can pay on your phone in the metro stores, I had no idea. I presume they have their own good reasons for not doing it in larger stores. Just seems to unnecessarily add time to the process to have to go to a checkout, point your phone at the QR code, click pay, click card, put your phone to the card machine, wait for the paper receipt etc........

I just put items in my pocket and/or backpack as I walk around and have only be checked twice in around 100 trips

 

[jon0844]

M&S is the one where I felt like everyone was assuming I was up to no good, as I could walk in, grab a sandwich and bottle of drink, scan both, pay, then literally walk out with both in my hand. It was so quick, I'm wondering if a customer ever told staff they thought I'd shoplifted!

Maybe the process of going to scan a barcode before leaving a Sainsbury's Local (I incorrectly said Metro earlier) is so it can be checked on camera if it is thought someone may have just walked out without paying.

I guess M&S can just check for any purchases made using the app around that time (and for those that don't know, the app shows a special receipt you can show to any staff that might ask to see it).

 

[duncanp]

I once inadvertently walked out of my local branch of Aldi without paying (at the self service till)

When I realised, I went back and paid the bill. The staff appreciated it, and said that it happens quite frequently.

But it does seem that thefts from supermarkets are on the rise, as this article about Tesco padlocking bacon and sausages shows.

Tesco store puts padlocks on bacon and sausages

Tesco Express branch in Bermondsey, south London, said measure was to ‘protect stock and availability’ in cost of living crisis

www.telegraph.co.uk

Tesco puts padlocks on its bacon and sausages​

South London branch says measure is to ‘protect stock’ from thieves

A Tesco shop has resorted to locking sausages and bacon in a fridge in an attempt to prevent shoplifting.

The Tesco Express branch in Bermondsey, south London placed a notice on its chilled meats cabinet warning it was locked to “protect stock and availability”. Customers were told to ask a member of staff for assistance in order to purchase items.

Consumer expert Jane Hawkes said: “It’s a very worrying sign of the times that supermarkets are resorting to locking away produce to prevent shoplifting during the cost of living crisis.”

She added that extreme measures were becoming increasingly common as prices increased and “the number of those struggling to make ends meet rises”.

Tesco, which is the country’s biggest supermarket chain, said some higher-value items required increased security at individual stores, but this was not a policy decided by its head office. The Bermondsey shop has now removed the lock and sign.

Crime concerns have prompted supermarkets to implement extra security measures, fearful that double-digit inflation will encourage theft.

As the price of butter surged last summer, Asda added security tags to £6 packs of Lurpak amid a spate of thefts. Experts warned that additional security measures would become an increasingly familiar sight in supermarket aisles as household finances continued to suffer.

Retail expert Clive Black said: “Supermarkets are having to deploy a lot of people and technology to meet the shoplifting challenge.

“With inflation comes hardship for some, and shoplifting becomes part of getting by, while for the less scrupulous, higher prices mean opportunity.”

Cases of theft across the industry surged by 16pc in three months to October 2022, according to a Freedom of Information request lodged by the Telegraph.

Data from over 20 police forces showed they were called to 10,019 cases, up 16pc from the 8,602 cases in July. Tesco and Sainsbury’s proved the most popular target for thieves, accounting for two-fifths of reports.

 

[themeone]

Sainsbury's seem to have two different systems (albeit with the same app).

In a supermarket, you just login and it detects you and off you go - but you must go to a checkout to tally up and pay. Many of these stores (presumably all eventually) now have a gate to scan the receipt, although it isn't yet operational at my store. This is also when you get printed vouchers from the till.

At the metro locations, you scan a barcode when you enter and another to leave (being able to pay on your phone). I expect it must know you're near a metro store to change the process, so it's an intentional decision. You can't get vouchers this way*.

They do have two different systems, but I don't think it depends on store size. I've known metro locations which auto-detect you, and larger supermarkets which don't and vice versa, so perhaps it's down to local management

 

[jon0844]

Do any of the large supermarkets allow you to pay on your phone and walk out?

 

[ABB125]

Tesco padlocking bacon and sausages shows.

Reminds me of this I once saw:

(Image of chickens with security tags)

 

[Russel]

My local Morrisons has put security gates up at the self checkouts, they open as you walk towards them, no need to scan anything so I'm not really sure what the point of them is.

Last night, the wouldn't open as I walked towards them, so I backed away and approached them again, no staff around so I pulled them open so I could leave.

Other than being a bit irritating, I'm not sure what these new security gates achieve.

 

[AM9]

My local Morrisons has put security gates up at the self checkouts, they open as you walk towards them, no need to scan anything so I'm not really sure what the point of them is.

Last night, the wouldn't open as I walked towards them, so I backed away and approached them again, no staff around so I pulled them open so I could leave.

Other than being a bit irritating, I'm not sure what these new security gates achieve.

Sounds like they are the same as the gates that are sometimes used to close checkouts not in use. All of these gates mustn't prevent exit in an emergency but will often have alarms activated when forced open to alert staff.

 

[ChrisC]

Having just read the last few pages of this thread concerning self scanning, smart shopping, tagging and alarms, I feel that it is a completely different world that I neither really fully understand or want to be part of. When I go into a supermarket, usually Waitrose, or my small local village Co op, I just put things in the basket or trolly and queue and pay at the checkout as I have done all of my life. You actually get to speak to a human being, who in the shops I go into are usually very friendly and helpful. I have moved a bit with the times and do use contactless much more these days.

 

[duncanp]

My local Morrisons has put security gates up at the self checkouts, they open as you walk towards them, no need to scan anything so I'm not really sure what the point of them is.

Last night, the wouldn't open as I walked towards them, so I backed away and approached them again, no staff around so I pulled them open so I could leave.

Other than being a bit irritating, I'm not sure what these new security gates achieve.

My local Morrisons (Birmingham Edgbaston) has done the same thing.

I suppose they are designed to stop people walking out of the self scanning area without paying for everything that was in their basket.

Presumably they must have had issues with this happening, otherwise they wouldn't have done it

Having just read the last few pages of this thread concerning self scanning, smart shopping, tagging and alarms, I feel that it is a completely different world that I neither really fully understand or want to be part of. When I go into a supermarket, usually Waitrose, or my small local village Co op, I just put things in the basket or trolly and queue and pay at the checkout as I have done all of my life. You actually get to speak to a human being, who in the shops I go into are usually very friendly and helpful. I have moved a bit with the times and do use contactless much more these days.

I think a lot of the supermarket chains have become more "corporate" these days, and are constantly looking for ways to cut costs.

They seem to be cajoling people into paying by card or smartphone app these days, by making only one of two of the self service tills available for those who want to pay by cash.

And don't get me started on those ghastly supermarkets like "Amazon Fresh", where you have to check in with a smartphone app.

If you want to pay by card or cash, they are not interested in your custom.

 

[Darandio]

Sounds like they are the same as the gates that are sometimes used to close checkouts not in use. All of these gates mustn't prevent exit in an emergency but will often have alarms activated when forced open to alert staff.

Presumably these are the type you mean?



These are the ones being installed at self scan areas in Morrisons. They are called a smart gate but it's apparently mainly a visual deterrent. They are supposed to open automatically after each customer approaches when they've paid for their shopping. It can also be remotely opened by the member of staff manning the self checkout but given it's Morrisons the staff will be too busy chatting amongst themselves for that to happen.

 

[jon0844]

I'm amazed Morissons still employ staff that have time to chat. At Tesco the poor sod I used to nearly always see covered all the self checkouts on his own, so never had time to stand still between dealing with age checks, random scans and other problems.

Clearly Morissons need to review their staffing levels!!

It's very much a race to the bottom and I guess the previous acceptance at a little bit of loss by getting rid of manned checkouts is now beginning to become a significant problem and they're all panicking and wondering how to fix the issues - without of course having to employ more people

 

[duncanp]

I'm amazed Morissons still employ staff that have time to chat. At Tesco the poor sod I used to nearly always see covered all the self checkouts on his own, so never had time to stand still between dealing with age checks, random scans and other problems.

Clearly Morissons need to review their staffing levels!!

It's very much a race to the bottom and I guess the previous acceptance at a little bit of loss by getting rid of manned checkouts is now beginning to become a significant problem and they're all panicking and wondering how to fix the issues - without of course having to employ more people

I was buying alcohol in my local Aldi recently, and the guy covering the self checkouts asked me if I had proof of age.

I took off my hat and said, "how many under 18s do you know who are going bald, and what little hair they have left has turned grey?"

He didn't have any answer to that.

 

[DelW]

Having just read the last few pages of this thread concerning self scanning, smart shopping, tagging and alarms, I feel that it is a completely different world that I neither really fully understand or want to be part of. When I go into a supermarket, usually Waitrose, or my small local village Co op, I just put things in the basket or trolly and queue and pay at the checkout as I have done all of my life. You actually get to speak to a human being, who in the shops I go into are usually very friendly and helpful. I have moved a bit with the times and do use contactless much more these days.

I'm in full agreement with this! I was aware of the dedicated self-scan machines but I've never been tempted to use them, as I avoid loyalty schemes which I think are required for their use. However using phone apps, scanning QR codes, phone payments, etc. are not something I remotely want to get into. Being retired I usually shop during the day, when most of the staff on the attended check-outs are middle-aged men and women, and I find almost all of them are happy to have a little chat and maybe a joke while they are scanning, which adds to my human contact for the day . I'm careful not to extend this into delaying anyone behind me though.

I was buying alcohol in my local Aldi recently, and the guy covering the self checkouts asked me if I had proof of age.

I took off my hat and said, "how many under 18s do you know who are going bald, and what little hair they have left has turned grey?"

He didn't have any answer to that.

This very occasionally happens to me, I think maybe when the staff members are themselves below a certain legally-required age so have to ask for evidence. I take delight in flashing my bus pass in response.

 

[Acey]

Maybe if everyone stops using apps,scans self service etc ,the stores will get the message and employ more staff !

 

[malc-c]

I've not read the whole thread, but since I had to take over the weekly shop find the constant badgering at my local ASDA staff to sign up to the app for the rewards scheme annoying. I use the scan and go system (previously set up by the wife) so can see why any cash back or discount prices can't be applied to the shop as you go, or get the same rewards offered for the app as the scanner is associated with an individual as you have to use a telephone number in order to despatch a scanner from the rack which then greets you with the name associated with that number. If it's a case of converting points into cash to either be deducted from that weeks shop or to allow you to cash in the points and receive a fiver back from the till then it could all be done at the till, no need to have an app on the phone.

I have a mobile but seldom take it with me, as unlike a lot of folk have a life outside facebook / wats app etc. When I do take it with me I use it for that old fashioned practice of taking a voice call and speak with someone.

 

[Typhoon]

These are the ones being installed at self scan areas in Morrisons. They are called a smart gate but it's apparently mainly a visual deterrent. They are supposed to open automatically after each customer approaches when they've paid for their shopping. It can also be remotely opened by the member of staff manning the self checkout but given it's Morrisons the staff will be too busy chatting amongst themselves for that to happen.

Why is in that things called 'smart' are far from smart? How does the gate know that the customer who is approaching is the one that has just paid for their items. They won't put off a determined thief, even I can get round that.

I'm amazed Morissons still employ staff that have time to chat. At Tesco the poor sod I used to nearly always see covered all the self checkouts on his own, so never had time to stand still between dealing with age checks, random scans and other problems.

Clearly Morissons need to review their staffing levels!!

It's very much a race to the bottom and I guess the previous acceptance at a little bit of loss by getting rid of manned checkouts is now beginning to become a significant problem and they're all panicking and wondering how to fix the issues - without of course having to employ more people

Underlined sections - at my local Morrisons the woman (I can't call someone in their twenties a 'girl') who is on the self service most regularly is probably the best member of staff in the place but is usually covering customer service as well as getting replacement products for staffed checkouts or sorting out their queries. Sometimes the staff on the Cigarette/ Lottery counter will sort out self-service. However, many of these tasks are demand dependent - no one wants a lottery picket, no issues with self scanning, no customer service inquiries, checkouts free flowing, there will be staff with nothing to do. If they are chatting, not a problem. The ones that get me are those with cages - they have got something to do and they are blocking the aisles.

Regarding Tesco - I had a similar experience yesterday. Mine was the only cash-or-card self checkout where there wasn't a red light but the chap was chatting to someone at another till who had had a difficulty - solve the problem and move on. Some are good at it, some are not. He isn't, I've seen him before!