New offer made to RMT by Rail Delivery Group

[Railwayowl80]

We don’t get an extra one. We just have to save from our existing allowance.

So maybe that bit applies to more people like me who get given an extra day perhaps I’ll have to use one from my entitlement never understood why we do get an extra one lol

 

[dk1]

Why would you roster traincrew in on a day the trains aren't operating?

Apparently some do according to a reply. I was under the impression Christmas & Boxing Day were safeguarded at all TOCs. They certainly are at most including mine & would never agree to that changing.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Apparently some do according to a reply. I was under the impression Christmas & Boxing Day were safeguarded at all TOCs. They certainly are at most including mine & would never agree to that changing.

I can't see any need at all to change that. If you do want to operate, you'll get enough genuine volunteers at the right price for the sort of basic service that will run - Merseyrail even generally got them with a dispute going on. It's nothing like Sundays.

 

[Railwayowl80]

Apparently some do according to a reply. I was under the impression Christmas & Boxing Day were safeguarded at all TOCs. They certainly are at most including mine & would never agree to that changing.

At mine we have a few fitters in maybe 1-2 shed drivers no ops or platform Staff

 

[SJN]

Apparently some do according to a reply. I was under the impression Christmas & Boxing Day were safeguarded at all TOCs. They certainly are at most including mine & would never agree to that changing.

I’ve worked at 2 different TOC’s one as conductor and now as driver. At the first one the drivers were safeguarded but the conductor’s weren’t. At my existing one, nobody is safeguarded. We all have to use AL days but get them back if they fall on a rest day.

 

[dk1]

At mine we have a few fitters in maybe 1-2 shed drivers no ops or platform Staff

Only Boxing Day at mine but then that is strictly only on a volunteer basis.

 

[greyman42]

Would people be against the, station groups allowing them to get you to work other stations im guessing if They were short they can beg and borrow from other Stations? But suppose people would have to be trained at other stations first

Sounds like the sort of flexibility you get in any modernised company.

 

[pt_mad]

Making staff use leave entitlement if they are ‘rostered’ in on Christmas Day and Boxing Day is needlessly petty.

I am too at a loss to understand why the RDG would even pursue such an aspiration if they seriously want a deal.

Does this literally mean staff have to save two of their annual leave days to cover Christmas and Boxing day even if under their existing terms they are paid for them without using annual leave?

If so does that not just effectively mean two days worth of ££wages from the pay rise is lost straight away as they effectively lose two days A/L compared to their allowance at the moment? (If this current allowance is their quota plus Christmas Day and Boxing Day extra at present).

 

[Mainsideman]

There is this part, plus the bullet point regarding station grades aligning. For those on the lowest grades, how would they be compensated for becoming multi functional + being made to cover various stations? It’s all very vague.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Jan 2023 ==

Making staff use leave entitlement if they are ‘rostered’ in on Christmas Day and Boxing Day is needlessly petty.

Its all very vague my toc employs GPRs who cover multiple stations so for us would it mean we all move over to a GPR model, would staff who were gateline and now get trained up to dispatch get a higher amount? Because where is the savings there!

 

[jayah]

Have I missed something else that has radically changed the offer?

The words best and final offer.

 

[dk1]

Sounds like the sort of flexibility you get in any modernised company.

You would certainly expect to be reimbursed travel expenses &/or paid travelling time as happens now with all railway area relief staff. If you are say based at & live in Doncaster you ain’t going to travel to Selby to cover for nothing.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The words best and final offer.

That's like "offers above £X" when selling a house. If the strikes continue there'll be another offer.

 

[pt_mad]

Can't see how station staff having to be potentially multi station would work either. For stations staffed first till last, how will they get home if they don't have their own transport and are staffing a location away from their current home location? If they use the train presumably they would have to leave early?

AFAIK most car insurance policies include commuting to a single place of work. If you're talking about a different station in different days if the week, would business car insurance not be needed?

 

[Bletchleyite]

AFAIK most car insurance policies include commuting to a single place of work'. If you're talking about a different station in different days if the week, would business car insurance not be needed?

Business Class 1 costs next to nothing, some insurers even give it to you for free. It's a non issue.

 

[Darandio]

Can't see how station staff having to be potentially multi station would work either. For stations staffed first till last, how will they get home if they don't have their own transport and are staffing a location away from their current home location? If they use the train presumably they would have to leave early?

AFAIK most car insurance policies include commuting to a single place of work. If you're talking about a different station in different days if the week, would business car insurance not be needed?

You could ask how thousands of retail workers do the exact same thing week in, week out. Just because it's something mentioned here doesn't mean it's an all new obstacle that needs sorting.

 

[Railwayowl80]

Its all very vague my toc employs GPRs who cover multiple stations so for us would it mean we all move over to a GPR model, would staff who were gateline and now get trained up to dispatch get a higher amount? Because where is the savings there!

I don’t get to what length would they take this could you be at work at one station someone takes ill at another and have to make your way there would have to be within a certain distance what happens if you don’t drive or had to get the train there but there’s no train back.

Someone mention at my work you’d be expected to make your own way but my car insurance only covers me to commute to one place of work I may have got This all wrong but because there’s not much detail hard to say if it’s good deal or not

 

[jayah]

That's like "offers above £X" when selling a house. If the strikes continue there'll be another offer.

I don't doubt it, the government are as weak as a damp sheet of kitchen roll.

Reform is essential. DOO is imperative.

You don't like DOO?

OK, we'll just make that for TOC negotiation, so you can show off by having another 15 TOC strikes over the next 15 years, just like the last.

 

[pt_mad]

Business Class 1 costs next to nothing, some insurers even give it to you for free. It's a non issue.

But realistically how many staff would actually be aware they need this and take action to get it? Or would their existing policies possibly be invalidated by not taking action?

 

[greyman42]

You would certainly expect to be reimbursed travel expenses &/or paid travelling time as happens now with all railway area relief staff. If you are say based at & live in Doncaster you ain’t going to travel to Selby to cover for nothing.

Is there any suggestion that you would be expected to do it for nothing?

 

[CFRAIL]

My TOC has most of these conditions anyway. Let's hope any vote is TOC by TOC

 

[Harold Hill]

Never see the Govt pick a fight like this with doctors or civil servants do we. Why don't they have to work 7 days a week?

 

[Bletchleyite]

But realistically how many staff would actually be aware they need this and take action to get it? Or would their existing policies possibly be invalidated by not taking action?

When you take out a car insurance policy, you need to select from the options - Social, Domestic & Pleasure, SD&P+commuting and Business Use*. It's pretty obvious what they mean. If you don't bother reading what you're selecting when taking out a policy, then that's your loss.

It's also not unusual for companies to do their due diligence by asking for a copy of the certificate of insurance before they pay any mileage, so that's a second check.

* Typically Class 1 = policyholder only, Class 2 = policyholder plus named drivers.

 

[KM1991]

I don’t get to what length would they take this could you be at work at one station someone takes ill at another and have to make your way there would have to be within a certain distance what happens if you don’t drive or had to get the train there but there’s no train back.

Someone mention at my work you’d be expected to make your own way but my car insurance only covers me to commute to one place of work I may have got This all wrong but because there’s not much detail hard to say if it’s good deal or not

I wouldn’t say it’s a good deal, apart from the £1750 pay increase for the lowest earners. Which ultimately makes it all the more interesting what way people would vote considering workplace strike fatigue has well and truly kicked in - Will it be a block national TOC vote? Or done on a TOC by TOC basis? Which could split the dispute up in a lot of ways.

 

[dk1]

Is there any suggestion that you would be expected to do it for nothing?

I wouldn’t expect so but nobody has seen the fine detail yet.

 

[pt_mad]

The offer looks very much like all the things that the govt wanted from the start, with the removal of DOO which wasn't slotted in until December anyway, and a minimum salary uplift of £1750 for 2022.

Surely accepting this would mean the RMT have been striking for near 8 months just to remove DOO and up the pay offer? The defend conditions bit would largely be lost if this was accepted into.

 

[Philip]

Station staff can't be forced to work Sundays or move around different stations, if this wasn't in the existing contract they signed; that's why there are GPR positions, to cover multiple stations. What if they don't own a car and can't reach the station they're asked to cover in time, or can't get home that evening, by using public transport?
There are employment rights which prevent staff from being forced to work Sundays if it was previously optional overtime. Obviously opting out of working Sundays would be reflected in a reduced pay offer for the individual, or no Sunday pay at all if they are 'committed Sundays'.

 

[greyman42]

Never see the Govt pick a fight like this with doctors or civil servants do we. Why don't they have to work 7 days a week?

If you wanted a Mon-Fri 9-5 job then the railway industry may not be the best place to work.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If you wanted a Mon-Fri 9-5 job then the railway industry may not be the best place to work.

Well, quite. Most jobs are of that type (basically all office work), so if you want to work Mon-Fri 9-5ish just go and get one of those jobs, the barriers to entry are quite low. If you want to work in a 24/7 industry, then you have to be willing to work at more or less any time.

 

[pt_mad]

When you take out a car insurance policy, you need to select from the options - Social, Domestic & Pleasure, SD&P+commuting and Business Use*. It's pretty obvious what they mean. If you don't bother reading what you're selecting when taking out a policy, then that's your loss.

It's also not unusual for companies to do their due diligence by asking for a copy of the certificate of insurance before they pay any mileage, so that's a second check.

* Typically Class 1 = policyholder only, Class 2 = policyholder plus named drivers.

I guess we are going off topic a little but if the change happens after someone had renewed their car insurance, I personally doubt many would realise any change was needed at all and go on as they are possibly with invalid insurance if that's what it'd be.

Imo a good deal of people either auto renew or on choosing a category would think 'business' or 'commuting', "well I'm not a business person I commute so I will choose commuting".

 

[Bletchleyite]

I guess we are going off topic a little but if the change happens after someone had renewed their car insurance, I personally doubt many would realise any change was needed at all and go on as they are possibly with invalid insurance if that's what it'd be.

Imo a good deal of people either auto renew or on choosing a category would think 'business' or 'commuting', "well I'm not a business person I commute so I will choose commuting".

A responsible employer checks certificates of insurance before paying any mileage. Mine does.