Blackpool North line

[samj1]

Is this area of the North West one of the busiest lines in the region? Whenever I have seen trains leaving either Preston when heading into Blackpool North I have seen them jam packed especially on a Friday. Also whenever I have been at Poulton le fylde in the morning between 6am and 10am there have always been healthy loadings on the line. But all the services are normally crammed 142s or 150s. Is it just because the trains are only 2 carriages or is it just a very busy line? Also what is the busiest time of day to travel between Blackpool and Preston and vice versa?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

But all the services are normally crammed 142s or 150s. Is it just because the trains are only 2 carriages or is it just a very busy line? Also what is the busiest time of day to travel between Blackpool and Preston and vice versa?

4tph:
1 x 150 (2-car ex-LIV)
1 x 142 (2-car ex-MCV)
1 x 158 (2/3-car ex-YRK)
1 x 185 (3-car ex-MIA)

NB - the 150 service (ex-LIV) can also be either a 156 (2-car) or very rarely a 142 (2-car). The 142 service (ex-MCV) can also be either a 150 (2-car) or 180 (5-car).

Busiest time: peaks, usually in the morning to preston, in the eveing back to the Fylde. All day summer Saturdays, don't even try the 142 to Blackpool South.

 

[driver9000]

It's a combination of both, although there are 3 car trains on the line too. Strengthened trains are almost unheard of along the Fylde coast sadly and they would certainly be handy especially in the summer when the platforms throng with numerous Hen and Stag parties along with families all heading for the seaside cramming themselves and their luggage into a single 142 or a 156! The Blackpool North services are all booked for Sprinters although in practice 142s appear on the Victoria service - today it seemed to a full Pacer allocation! The busiest times are the peaks and then from mid morning onwards.

 

[PhilipW]

Hopefully when the line is electrified by 2016, some of the servives will be 4-car EMUs (319s) or "dare-I-say-it" even the occasional Pendolino from Euston.

Yes, I know the latter is just a dream at the moment .... but sometimes dreams do come true.

 

[WestCoast]

This is my local line and it does get quite busy at times, summer weekends can be very busy in particular, with trains leaving Preston rammed full.

Mornings can also be rather busy at times, with local commuting traffic from Blackpool/Layton/Poulton/Kirkham and Wesham to Preston. It's not the busiest line in the North West by any means though.

Class 142s are not the usual booked units - but they do often run in place of other units on the Blackpool North - Manchester Victoria runs (booked 150/156/180 depending on the service) and Liverpool Lime Street services (mainly booked for 150/156).

The line also sees Northern 158s (2 or 3 car) on the York service and First TransPennine Express sends 3-car 185s on Manchester Airport runs.

So, the line isn't too underserved - part of the problem is that the services run together within a half an hour time period at xx.20, xx.29, xx.37 and xx.45 leaving Blackpool, which makes the xx.20 service very busy at times.

 

[strange6]

It's a combination of both, although there are 3 car trains on the line too. Strengthened trains are almost unheard of along the Fylde coast sadly and they would certainly be handy especially in the summer when the platforms throng with numerous Hen and Stag parties along with families all heading for the seaside cramming themselves and their luggage into a single 142 or a 156! The Blackpool North services are all booked for Sprinters although in practice 142s appear on the Victoria service - today it seemed to a full Pacer allocation! The busiest times are the peaks and then from mid morning onwards.

Bring back the 101's for this service with their cattle truck, no seat guard carriages - ideal for mopping up the spew from the cocks and hens

 

[boing_uk]

With the south Fylde line, its a shame it takes 58 minutes end to end and that the trains always have to stop (or slow to a crawl) at Moss Side, for the small number of pax that use it.

Of course, if Blackpool Borough Council get their way (they've restricted Lytham Rd Bridge now wholly to vehicles less that 7.5t - buses were excepted before) Blackpool South will be gone in the next decade and the line trunkated (when it *should* be extended).

If LCC, Northern and Network Rail got their heads together, how much would a passing loop at, say, Ansdell or Lytham cost? I suspect that there is a fair portion of suppressed demand on the south Fylde.

As for North, I really really hope that when electrification comes, Kirkham is remodelled to allow non-stopping trains to run through at line speed, rather than having to slow to 30/40mph.

 

[driver9000]

I've been working trains on the Fylde lines for a few years now and in my experience the Manchester Victoria service tends to be the busiest one as it arrives in Preston at xx:49 - which nicely connects with the London Euston service, annoyingly it is this service that is often formed of a 142! As Westcoast mentioned the bunching of the services doesn't help but that gap is partly created by the Blackpool South service which runs at xx:02 from Preston sharing the line as far as Kirkham. Summer Mondays often see the 10:20 Manchester Victoria full before it even leaves Blackpool, it also seems to be one the good people of Poulton like to use to go shopping in Preston on!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

As for North, I really really hope that when electrification comes, Kirkham is remodelled to allow non-stopping trains to run through at line speed, rather than having to slow to 30/40mph.

Have you noticed that most Down trains are now routed through the platforms at Kirkham rather than using the Down Fast? I can't remember the last time I took the Down Fast routing at Kirkham South! Mind you, it's actually quicker to go on the Down Slow as you aren't brought down to the red at Kirkham South.

 

[connor7777]

When are they going to electrify it, along with other promised routes in the lates proposals.

 

[driver9000]

When are they going to electrify it, along with other promised routes in the lates proposals.

By 2016 was the last date I heard for wires.

 

[connor7777]

no point startin a london to blackpool service soon then is there.

do people have a problem with changing at Preston?

 

[driver9000]

It will initially be run using Voyagers (if it starts at all)

Nobody seems to have a problem - they certainly don't voice it to the train crew if they do though. There are stairs and a lift so platforms 1 and 2 are fully accessible.

 

[umontu]

Have you noticed that most Down trains are now routed through the platforms at Kirkham rather than using the Down Fast? I can't remember the last time I took the Down Fast routing at Kirkham South! Mind you, it's actually quicker to go on the Down Slow as you aren't brought down to the red at Kirkham South.

Oddly I've noticed this too, wasn't sure what the reasoning behind this was.
I've also seen Blackpool services stop on platform 2 (Albeit back in the First North Western days).

A passing loop on the Blackpool South line would be very welcome and as I've seen mentioned on here previously a station at Wrea Green would be wonderful, though as I've stated the original site is a bit out of the way.

With such a busy corridor more trains should stop at Kirkham

 

[WestCoast]

With such a busy corridor more trains should stop at Kirkham

Yes, but the extra demand lies mainly at peak times, where extra TPE services stop. However, I see the benefit of stopping the Blackpool - Liverpool trains at weekends instead of just during the week as they do now.

A loop on the South Fylde line leading to imporved frequencies and reliability could do wonders for increasing the amount of people using it.

By the way, Umonto, I know loads of people who pronounce Wesham as Wesh-am rather than the correct Wes-ham (I used to do it) and they are people who have lived in The Fylde for many years, so good luck getting TPE to change it!

 

[umontu]

By the way, Umonto, I know loads of people who pronounce Wesham as Wesh-am rather than the correct Wes-ham (I used to do it) and they are people who have lived in The Fylde for many years, so good luck getting TPE to change it!

Well it's simple etymological understanding. Wes comes from Westby and Ham comes from Hamlet.
I had one Northern guard say Wes-ham and as I was getting off I said thanks for getting it right, turned out he lived in Kirkham.

I've emailed TPE about this and got a reply saying they were looking in to it but I haven't used one of their services since so I have no idea whether they've changed it.
I doubt they will either though.
There is a facebook group on the pronunciation too, though not aimed at TPE.

Can I just add, my name umontu is also based on some etymology. Ubuntu, the operating system and Monty, hense umontu.

 

[WestCoast]

I've emailed TPE about this and got a reply saying they were looking in to it but I haven't used one of their services since so I have no idea whether they've changed it.
I doubt they will either though.

Don't think they have. I always say it "Wes-ham".

Reminds of the whole "Micheldever" thing on SWT, where there was many complaints when Phil and Celia (the automated annoucement system) kept saying, "Micheldiva" which I thought sounded rather like some 80s pop star.

 

[umontu]

Don't think they have. I always say it "Wes-ham".

Reminds of the whole "Micheldever" thing on SWT, where there was many complaints when Phil and Celia kept saying, "Micheldiva" which I thought sounded rather like some 80s pop star.

I think it's a battle I'm not going to win, even Blackpool people say it wrong, my ex from Blackpool used to say it wrong all the time as did my cousin who works for TPE.

Then again I've met people from Lytham who've never even heard of Wesham!

 

[WestCoast]

I think it's a battle I'm not going to win, even Blackpool people say it wrong, my ex from Blackpool used to say it wrong all the time as did my cousin who works for TPE.

Then again I've met people from Lytham who've never even heard of Wesham!

That's my point if you can't get "locals" (i.e. a different part of the Fylde Coast) to say it right you're fighting a losing battle

Some people think it is just a part of Kirkham...

 

[umontu]

That's my point if you can't get "locals" (i.e. a different part of the Fylde Coast) to say it right you're fighting a losing battle

Some people think it is just a part of Kirkham...

Well I have to admit Kirkham has all the shops that Wesham doesn't.
Interestingly the railway line isn't the boundary between the two, infact the whole station is technically in Wesham, track and all.
There is a brook on the south side of the line and this is the historic boundary.
As for past Station Road towards the signal box I don't think there has ever been an official boundary.

Wesham is better (just in case it wasn't clear that I lived north of the tracks already...)

 

[boing_uk]

I had occasion last week to travel out of Blackpool North in daylight last week (I usually end up travelling inbound in the dark) and I couldnt beleive the changes that have taken place, with new equipment cabs popping up everywhere and a signal box finally disappearing.

Is this a prelude to modernisation of the signalling on the route... finally?

 

[driver9000]

They have been doing general renewals of worn out equipment around Blackpool North. Blackpool No.1 signal box was abolished on 23 January and demolished the week after. There were some changes to the signalling arrangments on the main lines with No.2 taking control and all shunting signals worked by No.1 on the sidings removed with points converted to hand operation. A new ground frame was installed to enable trains to leave the yard towards Layton if need be. The cross over at Poulton was reinstated at the same time.

 

[strange6]

They have been doing general renewals of worn out equipment around Blackpool North. Blackpool No.1 signal box was abolished on 23 January and demolished the week after. There were some changes to the signalling arrangments on the main lines with No.2 taking control and all shunting signals worked by No.1 on the sidings removed with points converted to hand operation. A new ground frame was installed to enable trains to leave the yard towards Layton if need be. The cross over at Poulton was reinstated at the same time.

I hate it when they knock boxes down. I almost cried when they knocked Southport box down in the 90's - magnificent box and very, very tall

 

[driver9000]

Blackpool North No.1 was a BR design and in my mind wasn't all that pleasing to the eye. It's sad to see any box demolished but the real shame for me will be when the L&Y design boxes on the Fylde go....I just hope I get chance to record them for posterity.

 

[boing_uk]

The cross over at Poulton was reinstated at the same time.

Why??!!

I can not think of any movement that would require the use of that crossover? Seems like a bit of a waste of money really... Although is it any more of a waste of money that replacing the switch rails and frog to the disused loop at opposite the carriage sidings...

 

[driver9000]

It could be handy in times of disruption ie for single line working or for engineering trains to use.

Which loop do you mean at the carriage sidings? The whole of the yard is in use, although the Down loop on the opposite side to the yard is now truncated to a siding accessed from the station end and is handy for replatforming trains if access to the yard cannot be gained for any reason.

 

[boing_uk]

although the Down loop on the opposite side to the yard is now truncated to a siding accessed from the station end and is handy for replatforming trains if access to the yard cannot be gained for any reason.

Thats the one I was referring to; it was plain lined for a number of months a couple of years ago now. Then over a weekend it re-appeared.

When there are wet beds, twists and god knows what else out there on the network, replacing S&C equipment that may only ever be used once in the bluest of blue moons, is hardly the most efficient use of resources. Salwick for instance, now there is some S&C that DOES need attention in the up direction.

 

[driver9000]

Although it's not in daily use, you'd amazed how often it's used especially once the night time comes and units need to be replatformed to be marshalled into the correct formations/set numbers for heading back out. I undertook such a move not that long ago.

 

[boing_uk]

Oh I dont doubt that it is handy to have. I could spend money on my own infrastructure on "handy to have" pieces of plant. Unfortunately that would mean that more important things dont get done, like end-of-life replacements.

As it is, I have things out of use or temporarily repaired because of a lack of funds to do a proper job, which disrupt or delay the journeys of the public day in day out.

Given the amount of taxpayer money / debt liability that NR seem fit to saddle us all with, prioritisation of work could/should be a little better and to be honest, replacement of S&C for a trunkated loop just to allow a little bit easier shunting - in my mind - isnt up there with the biggest priorities, either on a local or regional level. The money could probably have been better spent elsewhere.

 

[driver9000]

The plain lining of those points was always a temporary repair after a crack was found in the rail, a new (probably second hand) rail was always going to put in and wouldn't have incurred massive cost as those kinds of repairs are budgeted for. If it makes you feel better platform 8 is still out of use as it's not seen as a priority repair and I don't think it will be repaired at all. Despite this we have still seen end of life renewals on the Fylde with the new cabinets and associated gear inside. Hopefully electrification will bring a lot more work with it as long as small jobs aren't left to clog up the job sheets.

I agree about Salwick cross over although it's better than it was, along with the rough patch on the down that 142s don't seem to like very much. I've reported rough riding, the line is examined by the next train and found to be clear. Normal running is given.

You can argue about priority repairs and costs within Network Rail until the cows come home which is largely a separate issue, but I'd rather see the infrastructure complete and operational without small jobs backing up creating a backlog of work that will eventually affect larger work and add to the cost and time of them. I doubt replacing the small piece of rail at Blackpool cost a fortune (or the one at Bolton done at the same time as well as being subsequently removed and then put back again!). If the parts are in store and the work can be done in a possession that's already booked or outside of traffic hours, then get it done and free up time and men for the bigger stuff.

 

[Damien1986]

They say that there are proposals for Grand Central to operate Blackpool North to London Euston services from next year and wouldn't you agree they are vital!