Yes Northern Conductors did in their dispute with Arriva over DOO, which was actually never resloved it is still 'suspended' All those 'Pop-up Guards' who were quite happy to work the odd Tuesday or Friday to get them out of the Office suddenly didn't want to work every Saturday! I wonder why?It really needs to be stepped up now.
Something like every Saturday indefinitely would be ideal although would miss commuters. Perhaps ASLEF members could do their bit too. Didn't conductors on Northern strike every Saturday for a time?
Completely and utterly irrelevant.
There is a clear and defined formula to determine MP pay (it increases in line with average public sector earnings) and has been taken completely out of MPs hands.
Ever heard the phrase "echo chamber" with those having views not following the loudest voices keeping quiet or risk getting bullied or cast to one side as unmutual.
Those not agreeing simply staying quiet or lying when it comes to agreeing to things. What people say in public doesn't always reflect what they would do in the privacy of their own home/voting booth. How many people will say they will vote labour/lib dem but secretly vote for the tories when it comes to putting that cross on the paper?
How many reps simply discarded any feedback which didn't fit their own personal views when it came to feeding back to the main council about the deal?
Right, so that doesn't work then. The odds are unfairly stacked too heavily against the workers in this.a one hour walkout at 0745 each day means no pay for that shift…
If they didnt want to lose money going out on strike and they didnt think that there would be a better offer.As for the offer that the RMT has rejected, quite right too, why would anyone accept a pay cut and the trashing of their Terms and Conditions?
In MPs defence, it's all parties who have MPs getting a pay rise not just the Government and the Tories. It wouldn't be fair to say that you're not getting a payrise because a number of them do a lot of good for their communities.Whilst I agree their pay is a completely separate matter, it does rather grate that they’re getting a pay rise off the back of absolutely *dire* performance over the last few years. If any “industry” needs reforms it’s this one.
In MPs defence, it's all parties who have MPs getting a pay rise not just the Government and the Tories. It wouldn't be fair to say that you're not getting a payrise because a number of them do a lot of good for their communities.
Whilst I agree their pay is a completely separate matter, it does rather grate that they’re getting a pay rise off the back of absolutely *dire* performance over the last few years. If any “industry” needs reforms it’s this one.
Whilst I agree with the premise of the above, I think on this occasion there really is significant strength of feeling. Some people might well vote for something like the current offer simply as they’re worn down by the whole thing, however people really are peeved about all this, especially when they see handouts being dished out elsewhere. And of course don’t underestimate the impact of the inflammatory rhetoric constantly coming out of the government - indeed Liz Truss mentioned rail unions something like four times in her final PMQs didn’t she IIRC?
I think there are elements in the RMT who do want to use it to damage the Government. And equally the Goverment wants to use it to damage the unions.
Sadly yes. And the result is passengers and the railways suffer.In lay mans terms, political willy waving from both sides.
March onwards I would have thought.So are travellers facing more strikes later in February? Or more likely March onwards?
Agreed.Saturday 4th March I think is a near certainty of being a strike date.
It sort of is relevant, isn't it, that there always seems to be ludicrous money for this government to waste on bankers but rarely sensible money to pay the workers in line with inflation?ludicrous wasting of money. But - to get back to the subject matter at hand - there's realistically nothing the government can now do to get out of the usurious IEP contracts and so it's hardly relevant to have been brought up in relation to this dispute.
It is likely 20+ months until the next election. By which time the pay deal the Union will be demanding will no doubt have climbed further (from continuing inflation over that period) and be even less palatable to the (likely new) government after the election. If people think 9% is a terrible pay offer, the reality is that continuing to strike just means they get 0%.
MPs are the CEOs of this country. £86, 000 if anything is too low, and why we end up with questionable types in parliament!!and the civil servants have already announced striking for that day.
Additionally it should be pointed out in earlier posts referring to MPs pay that MPs had a 4% pay rise in April 2022 to north of £84000 never mind this years taking it to over £86000
What have the IEP or 700 contract got to do with bankers?It sort of is relevant, isn't it, that there always seems to be ludicrous money for this government to waste on bankers but rarely sensible money to pay the workers in line with inflation?
Yes they will but they are at risk of being utterly overwhelmed with demands from all parts of the public sector and they wont have the resources to deliver what any of the unions are demanding. Rachael Reeves is currently looking like a far stricter chancellor than Hunt and his predecessor who have sprayed cash around all over the place to keep the red wall voters and pensioners onside. So i just hope they are being clear with the unions what the art of the possible is going to be as publicly they appear to be stand offish with ministers need to talk with union leaders as the answer when we know full well the answer is simple - money.
I said at the time that was a last throw of the dice by RMT and the government haven't blinked. The government aren't bothered.It was stepped up, significantly, in December & January. 11 days of action for NR, and 8 days plus overtime / Rest Day ban for TOC, plus some TOCs had additional action. What did that achieve, other than lose people thousands of pounds?
It was put to an online straw poll to RMT branches. It was returned as a resounding no.Well what a surprise...not.
Pathetic to not even put it to a vote... especially as it has been over 2 weeks since this was received.
The statement is also very concerning - Absolutely no sign of any ability or willingness to compromise.
I just wish I earned enough to be able to lose as much pay as these folks seem to.
I've yet to read through the rest of the thread, but this I totally agree with. Not putting it to the members is an outrageous misuse of executive power. As many will know here I've never been in favour on these, or indeed all other strikes given the perilous economic situation the country is in. But for well paid (and not losing any money) execs to decide they don't like the deal, despite the fact that their members might be coming to the point where strikes are causing more harm than good for them, without a proper mandate really does demonstrate that this isn't about the membership any more. Sadly this will just help drive through the anti-union legislation currently awaiting reading in the House of Lords, and will probably help spawn more.Disappointed it didn't go to a vote. I'd accept rejection by the staff but I think for the Union management, like for the Tories, it has become a class war.
This government are happy to ride this out and let Labour have to deal with all the pay demands.
I said at the time that was a last throw of the dice by RMT and the government haven't blinked. The government aren't bothered.
But it would be fair to say, "you're not getting a payrise because you're paid handsomely, the country is in dire straits, people are being asked to make sacrifices and - as someone who is supposed to be in selfless service - you need to set an example."In MPs defence, it's all parties who have MPs getting a pay rise not just the Government and the Tories. It wouldn't be fair to say that you're not getting a payrise because a number of them do a lot of good for their communities.
I’m an Aslef member but I know that Mick Lynch has attended several very large meetings with as many members as possible in attendance. On my area there were 4 TOCS in attendance and the overall outcome was to reject the offer.
But it would be fair to say, "you're not getting a payrise because you're paid handsomely, the country is in dire straits, people are being asked to make sacrifices and - as someone who is supposed to be in selfless service - you need to set an example.
As an aside, I often hear the "good work" line trotted out for these types without anyone being able to point to something that actually merits it. The opposition parties include
The next Labour government will be a one term affair replaced with a reactionary party, probably Reform, precisely because of this acute lack of self awareness or humility.
WFH I think is a big reason why the dispute is still ongoing, as it means it is less disruptive to the economy. Five years ago, the government would have had little choice but to find an agreement as a long running dispute would have been to disruptive to the economy.Problem for the RMT is that it not really top story news anymore when there are strikes. The longer it goes on the less media impact it has, especially now journalists can (mostly) WFH and aren't directly affected like they used to be.
Well yes, it's the one part of Thatcher's anti Union legislation I couldn't disagree with.Secret ballots were called for and introduced for a reason.
What have the IEP or 700 contract got to do with bankers?
Giving public sector employees a no-strings inflationary payrise would simply deepen the budget deficit and thus require more cutbacks elsewhere - and more to the point, not only would it do so this year, but it would also do so for every year going forwards, with future increases compounded.
That's the reality, staff have a simple choice, stop losing money as strike action is not achieving anything further, or continue for another 18-23 months until a general election.
But by then the minimum service level legislative that RMT have caused to be introduced will be active, so RMT will just be seen badly by other unions. And great chunk of members will be fed up having lost money for no real gain over starting offer months ago.
Unfortunately RMT executive didn't see (or were to blinkered to see) the anti union legislation. And instead of taking the initiative offering acceptable changes that saved money whilst making sure their members got share of savings in form of higher wages, instead chose to dig in and assume Government would just find extra money. But RMT will never admit to misjudging government not caring about the strikes.
Its no longer a possibility, cuts are now becoming a reality and these strikes are making it easier for the government to make them. The decision by the RMT executive to not take the offer to the membership is literally playing into the hands of the government. Its pure madness.Quite frankly striking every saturday would play straight into the hands of government, who are desperate to downplay current rail usage and set the network on a path of long term stagnation and cost-stripping, and would no doubt relish the idea of the currently very healthy weekend leisure travel market dwindling away. The unions need to be very careful here; perhaps for the first time ever there is a real possibility of doing lasting damage to the industry, which is in a position of fragility not seen for generations. Let's hope they realise this.
Announcing every Saturday indefinitely would be very helpful for me as a passenger as it would give me certainty. And from a personal point view I tend to avoid Saturdays because they're so busy and plagued with rail replacement buses.Quite frankly striking every saturday would play straight into the hands of government, who are desperate to downplay current rail usage and set the network on a path of long term stagnation and cost-stripping, and would no doubt relish the idea of the currently very healthy weekend leisure travel market dwindling away. The unions need to be very careful here; perhaps for the first time ever there is a real possibility of doing lasting damage to the industry, which is in a position of fragility not seen for generations. Let's hope they realise this.