Haymarket to Dalmeny electrification

[zwk500]

According to Rail magazine (some recentish issue, I forget which) and Modern Railways (March, page 17) this dispute seems to have led Chris Gibb to resign only nine months into his job as chief executive of Scottish Rail Holdings.

Oh joy! and yet on other threads posters were saying how much better things would be if Scottish Government was given control over scottish projects....

 

[Meerkat]

Oh joy! and yet on other threads posters were saying how much better things would be if Scottish Government was given control over scottish projects....

Cancelling it so late is ridiculous…..but politicians looking out for passengers isn’t a bad thing in concept, guarding against engineers forgetting about the pesky users and doing things a certain way because that’s the way it has always been done.
The politicians should have admitted they found out too late to stop it this time and then held an investigation around whether changing rail use changes the best time for engineering blockades.
The cynic might suggest any such investigation done now will be influenced by the politicians realising it could say they really screwed up!

 

[InOban]

I think he was micromanaging, involving himself in matters outside his remit.

 

[Meerkat]

I think he was micromanaging, involving himself in matters outside his remit.

I disagree - this is fairly high level principle stuff. The sort of challenge higher ups should be doing.
”why are you shutting the railway when loads of people want to use it?”
Micro-managing would be “Why are you using that access point and not this one?”

The failure is challenging it so late they cost the project lots of money and screwed scheduling right across the system.

 

[zwk500]

I disagree - this is fairly high level principle stuff. The sort of challenge higher ups should be doing.
”why are you shutting the railway when loads of people want to use it?”
Micro-managing would be “Why are you using that access point and not this one?”

The failure is challenging it so late they cost the project lots of money and screwed scheduling right across the system.

It was a knee-jerk reaction to poor performance in the summer and autumn. It was political interference of the worst kind, and he should be hit over the head with a frying pan to remind him not to do it again.

 

[snowball]

I think he was micromanaging, involving himself in matters outside his remit.

She, surely? (Jenny Gilruth)

 

[Hagbard Celine]

Is there any progress on this scheme?

I was on a Perth train on Saturday. There are a couple of stretches of pile bases visible on the east side of the line near to the airport runway. I was on the same side (and it was getting dark) on the return so can't comment about the west side.

I assume the reason for the lack of visible progress noted by another poster between Haymarket and Saughton is that the E&G electrification on this stretch mainly used gantries that span all four tracks.

 

[59CosG95]

I was on a Perth train on Saturday. There are a couple of stretches of pile bases visible on the east side of the line near to the airport runway. I was on the same side (and it was getting dark) on the return so can't comment about the west side.

I assume the reason for the lack of visible progress noted by another poster between Haymarket and Saughton is that the E&G electrification on this stretch mainly used gantries that span all four tracks.

Four-Track portals between Haymarket & Saughton were indeed used; they were installed as part of the A2B (Airdrie to Bathgate) scheme. On those structures, there would need to be an isolation on the eastbound E&G line (at the very least) to allow any new SPS to be installed. Of course, there might be further OLE alterations proposed for that section that require new structures, and the removal of some of the aforementioned 4-track portals (emphasis on the word might). Changing the existing Balance Weight assemblies to Tensorex drums might be one such alteration, although whether that warrants new structures remains to be seen.

 

[Falcon1200]

I assume the reason for the lack of visible progress noted by another poster between Haymarket and Saughton is that the E&G electrification on this stretch mainly used gantries that span all four tracks.

Four-Track portals between Haymarket & Saughton were indeed used

Good point, I can't understand why I missed those gantries! But I definitely could not see any progress where the stop, just short of Saughton.

 

[Bald Rick]

why are you shutting the railway when loads of people want to use it?”

”Because, minister, we’ve done demand assessments and on balance this would affect the fewest people travelling”

would have been the answer.

 

[Meerkat]

”Because, minister, we’ve done demand assessments and on balance this would affect the fewest people travelling”

would have been the answer.

If that is true then hopefully someone tells the public this so the minister can be asked why they overruled the stats.
However....fewest people doesn't have to mean least impact. ie the minister may think those passengers were more important, maybe for railway PR, but more likely the effect on Edinburgh tourism/nightlife??

 

[Bald Rick]

Let’s be honest - elected politicians shouldn’t be anywhere near this sort of decision.

 

[43066]

Let’s be honest - elected politicians should be anywhere near this sort of decision.

The further they are from the railway generally, the better it seems to run.

 

[mcmad]

Let’s be honest - elected politicians should be anywhere near this sort of decision.

Most of the current batch in both Westminster and Holyrood can't be trusted with any decision to be fair

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Most of the current batch in both Westminster and Holyrood can't be trusted with any decision to be fair

but they hold the purse strings so not unreasonable they want to ensure their constituents get what they are funding

 

[Meerkat]

Let’s be honest - elected politicians should be anywhere near this sort of decision.

Isn’t this what elected politicians are for? Monitoring how the taxpayers money is spent and making decisions when different groups interests conflict - ie commuters vs leisure travellers and the hospitality industry they support.

 

[InOban]

Except that NR insist on working at the weekend when on many routes the weekend is now the busiest time of the week

 

[zwk500]

Is the FoI act applicable to the ministers decision? Could somebody (do they have to be in Scotland?) Request the estimate costs of cancelling the works?

 

[43066]

but they hold the purse strings so not unreasonable they want to ensure their constituents get what they are funding

Given the current approach to various issues it’s by no means clear that’s what they are doing with the railway, though. Or at least not in a sensible/responsible way.

Isn’t this what elected politicians are for? Monitoring how the taxpayers money is spent and making decisions when different groups interests conflict - ie commuters vs leisure travellers and the hospitality industry they support.

You might think that’s what they’re for. What they think they’re for is, first and foremost, to get themselves re-elected…

 

[D6130]

Let’s be honest - elected politicians should be anywhere near this sort of decision.

I think you meant to type 'shouldn't' !....in which case I wholeheartedly agree with you!

 

[Bald Rick]

Except that NR insist on working at the weekend when on many routes the weekend is now the busiest time of the week

NR don’t insist at all. NR have to agree when work is done with the train operators. The train operators can (and do) suggest other times, based on their knowledge if demand. If truth be told NR would quite like to do engineering work in the week, as it spreads resources more evenly.

As an aside, i can’t think of a single route in the country that is now busier at weekends compared to in the week, when the reverse was true Pre Covid. I’m sure there’s a few, but it’s going to be a handful. Taking the network as a whole, the weekend has as many passengers as one weekday.

Is the FoI act applicable to the ministers decision? Could somebody (do they have to be in Scotland?) Request the estimate costs of cancelling the works?

Yes.

I think you meant to type 'shouldn't' !....in which case I wholeheartedly agree with you!

ooops, yes!

 

[InOban]

The busiest train from Oban is the lunchtime train on Sunday. Many weekday trains in winter are very quiet.

Some months ago Bill Reeve of Transport Scotland said that Monday was the quietest day throuhhout scotrail and traffic rose day by day until Saturday. The limit on Sunday was the number of staff available and therefore the timetable.

 

[D6130]

As an aside, i can’t think of a single route in the country that is now busier at weekends compared to in the week,

The Calder Valley Line for starters. Its trains are absolutely rammed at weekends - especially on Sundays - as they have to take the majority of trans-Pennine passengers between Manchester and Leeds due to TPE's failure to run any sort of reasonable service. Presumably that's why Northern are increasing the Sunday service from 1 tph to 2 tph in the new May timetable.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

The further they are from the railway generally, the better it seems to run.

Cynical but sadly true.

 

[EMU303]

Some months ago Bill Reeve of Transport Scotland said that Monday was the quietest day throuhhout scotrail and traffic rose day by day until Saturday. The limit on Sunday was the number of staff available and therefore the timetable.

In the Nov 2022 edition of MR, Alex Hynes said Tue-Thu are the busiest days of the commuting week, with more people working from home Mon and Fri, but Fri afternoon/evening are busier than pre-covid. But Saturday is now the busiest day of the week on Scotrail.

 

[Meerkat]

In the Nov 2022 edition of MR, Alex Hynes said Tue-Thu are the busiest days of the commuting week, with more people working from home Mon and Fri, but Fri afternoon/evening are busier than pre-covid. But Saturday is now the busiest day of the week on Scotrail.

So the 'weekend' in engineering terms would be Sunday and Monday?

 

[59CosG95]

But Saturday is now the busiest day of the week on Scotrail.

Particularly on all lines into Edinburgh when there's a home game at Murrayfield! (of which there's two more this 6 Nations)

 

[InOban]

And Scotrail believe that Sunday traffic is limited by the number of trains they can operate.

 

[mcmad]

And yet Scotrail consistently refuse proposals for midweek access preferring works to be completed at the weekends, ideally Sunday only.

 

[Class 170101]

The problem is you would never get the freight operators would never accept Monday to Friday (and sometimes Saturdays) being disrupted.