‘Avanti to stop at-seat service from May 2023’

[_toommm_]

An interesting tweet from RMT this evening, stating Avanti are stopping at-seat service. Wasn’t this advertised as one of the main perks of Standard Premium?

Avanti to end at seat catering in another blow for passengers

Disgraced train operator @AvantiWestCoast will scrap at seat service catering from May 2023, the @RMTunion can reveal
The cost cutting move will mean standard class passengers will not have the option of an at seat service, serving sandwiches, snacks and drinks.
Instead, they will have to use online "click and collect" from the shop, penalising lone travellers and those with mobility issues.️ @RMTunion general secretary Mick Lynch said: " @AvantiWestCoast has once again shown it is unfit to run a rail franchise with this needless cost cutting exercise..."

https://twitter.com/rmtunion/status/1630940050333548548?s=46&t=vDC3x2dc8OuY1QTjySGLTw

 

[Bletchleyite]

It was only a trial and not well used, wasn't it? Also notable that the stickers aren't there on the refurbs.

It's not a perk of SP, it's available in Standard.

 

[185143]

It was only a trial and not well used, wasn't it? Also notable that the stickers aren't there on the refurbs.

It's not a perk of SP, it's available in Standard.

Always seems to be well used on LNER, so there should be no reason for it not to be similarly well used on Avanti really.

 

[dave87016]

Doesn’t help that poor WiFi onboard prevents people from using the at seat service function

 

[Huntergreed]

I’ve tried to use this many times, and I can’t think of any where I’ve used the wifi and its came up with anything other than this:



(Image shows an error screen, reading “Sorry, At Seat Order isn’t available at the moment. To buy food and drink, please visit the onboard shop.”)

Does feel a bit like “if we don’t properly try to advertise/implement it, no one will use it, and if no one uses it, we should get rid of it”.

 

[hexagon789]

Doesn't really surprise me, I for one never got a train where it was available. I'm sure others said in the past that they had better luck, but with staffing issues as they are I was surprised they didn't cut the service before now - they very infrequently seemed able to provide it as advertised.

 

[Kite159]

They offered at seat ordering in the first place?

Probably helps save on staffing costs as not needing 2 members of staff for the shop (unless the shop area was left unattended when the member of staff took an overpriced bottle of lager to coach U). Probably failed due to some lazy catering staff not wanting to walk to deliver the goods.

Back to the shop Vs proper trolley service arguments

 

[AlterEgo]

Doesn’t help that poor WiFi onboard prevents people from using the at seat service function

Yep - tried three times, unavailable every time.

 

[CFRAIL]

I attempted to use it twice, 50% success rate.

 

[Grumpy Git]

Only time I tried to use it (on a morning Liverpool-Euston), they’d sold all the bacon butties before we got to Edge Hill.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Always seems to be well used on LNER, so there should be no reason for it not to be similarly well used on Avanti really.

The main downside of it on Avanti that isn't the case on LNER is that on Avanti you have to connect to their wifi to use it, whereas on LNER you can use it from your data. The former would be OK but for that you have to create an account and sign your life away first.

As usual, FirstGroup had a fairly good idea and implemented it badly.

A trolley definitely wouldn't be better on an 11 car unit, you'd never see it. GWR is bad enough on their 9s and 10s. Plus the "shop" does proper bean coffee, not instant rubbish.

 

[Bertie the bus]

It was only a trial and not well used, wasn't it?

No. It was originally a trial, which they claimed was a success, and was then rolled out.

 

[Dryce]

I never got it to work on several trips where I tried to use it. It either wouldn't connect. Or if I got as far as placing and order then it wouldn't complete and accept payment. Haven't bothered trying on recent trips.

 

[markymark2000]

Every time I have attempted to try the at seat ordering, it's never been available. NEVER!

I like the idea of the buffet car but I would appreciate stock levels being available via the wifi portal. Save me the walk to find out that they have and what they don't. Also something to say when the buffet will be open/close. All too often the buffet is closed for whatever reason because they can't be bothered to open it or staff are cashing up because they are finishing or changing over. Having no standard opening times and no information on when the buffet car is open is really, really annoying.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Every time I have attempted to try the at seat ordering, it's never been available. NEVER!

I like the idea of the buffet car but I would appreciate stock levels being available via the wifi portal. Save me the walk to find out that they have and what they don't. Also something to say when the buffet will be open/close. All too often the buffet is closed for whatever reason because they can't be bothered to open it or staff are cashing up because they are finishing or changing over. Having no standard opening times and no information on when the buffet car is open is really, really annoying.

To me the key thing is that you need to be able to use it WITHOUT using the wifi. There's no reason it should be constrained to that - none of the pub ordering apps/websites are, and they're the same thing. Scanning the QR code should include the unit number in the URL to make sure it isn't the wrong train you're ordering to, and the LNER one if I recall does.

 

[markymark2000]

To me the key thing is that you need to be able to use it WITHOUT using the wifi. There's no reason it should be constrained to that - none of the pub ordering apps/websites are, and they're the same thing. Scanning the QR code should include the unit number in the URL to make sure it isn't the wrong train you're ordering to, and the LNER one if I recall does.

That would also be very good. Given the rail industries insistance on doing things to make it inconvenient to passengers though, linking to the wifi portal is the most likely thing to do if they were ever to do it.

 

[falcon]

Seems to me that there is a move to eradicate all standard class food and drink.

Only first class will be able to obtain food on-board in future.

Hull Trains, much hailed open access operator abandoned all STD class refreshments on all 14 of their daily trains over a year ago. No food or drink for over two hrs. People board at Retford and Grantham and there is nothing to eat or drink on the train. This is on the premier ECML!

So much for the privatised railway.

 

[Ralph Ayres]

Maybe I'm not their target market but I'm far more likely to buy refreshments if a trolley goes past me than have to place an order and wait an uncertain amount of time for it, particularly if I'm leaving the train within the next half hour or so. If someone's trotting up and diown the train delivering orders wouldn't it be simpler anyway just to wheel a trolley along and sell refreshments to anyone who wants them?

 

[AlterEgo]

Maybe I'm not their target market but I'm far more likely to buy refreshments if a trolley goes past me than have to place an order and wait an uncertain amount of time for it, particularly if I'm leaving the train within the next half hour or so. If someone's trotting up and diown the train delivering orders wouldn't it be simpler anyway just to wheel a trolley along and sell refreshments to anyone who wants them?

You won't see a trolley on an 11 car Pendo, that is the problem unfortunately. Trolleys travel very, very slowly and are completely unsuitable for longer trains.

 

[Kite159]

.

Seems to me that there is a move to eradicate all standard class food and drink.

Only first class will be able to obtain food on-board in future.

Hull Trains, much hailed open access operator abandoned all STD class refreshments on all 14 of their daily trains over a year ago. No food or drink for over two hrs. People board at Retford and Grantham and there is nothing to eat or drink on the train. This is on the premier ECML!

So much for the privatised railway.

Or maybe they did the sums and came to the conclusion that providing the trolley service for standard class cost more than it generated in revenue. Passengers buying from station shops or shops near the station rather than playing the catering trolley lottery.

Similar to SWR who did away with catering at the start of Covid and GWR cutting back on the routes where catering is offered.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Hull Trains, much hailed open access operator abandoned all STD class refreshments on all 14 of their daily trains over a year ago. No food or drink for over two hrs. People board at Retford and Grantham and there is nothing to eat or drink on the train. This is on the premier ECML!

Does Hull offer catering in 1st? If so, it seems strange that the same person can't manage to do an occasional tea trolley round through Standard in a 5-car unit, they aren't going to be serving the tiny number of First Class passengers constantly, so they must be spending a lot of time sat doing nothing.

I can see the sense in dropping it completely, but if you have a steward for 20-odd First Class seats not also having them do a Standard trolley when spare seems to be throwing away extra marginal money, even if it's an extremely basic one of just non-perishables (soft drinks, water, beer/cider/wine, crisps, nuts and chocolate bars) it'll make money if your staff cost is basically zero.

 

[Craig1122]

I do think all the issues listed above combined with the explosion of choice on and near stations have killed on train catering. The uncertainty what, if anything, will be offered and sky high prices for poor quality were the two biggest issues for me. Most things you can buy better/cheaper before you board, does make it a pain if you want a hot drink though.

I believe even back in the good times SWT trolley services were only profitable on Waterloo - Exeter and were subsidised on the rest of the network as a customer service. Easier to do when the cash is rolling in.

 

[TurbineEnginee]

I suppose it depends on your definition of first class.

We can’t help you because we’re busy in standard isn’t exactly first class.

I would argue that if it is really first class, the staff actually should have quiet time so that they can be available when requested.

In my view first and standard should be thought of as different products, and individually staffed accordingly.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suppose it depends on your definition of first class.

We can’t help you because we’re busy in standard isn’t exactly first class.

OAOs are budget services so I'd not expect too much. Perhaps two or three services in the full journey.

 

[MrJeeves]

An interesting tweet from RMT this evening, stating Avanti are stopping at-seat service. Wasn’t this advertised as one of the main perks of Standard Premium?

https://twitter.com/rmtunion/status/1630940050333548548?s=46&t=vDC3x2dc8OuY1QTjySGLTw

I've travelled with Avanti about 8 times in the past year (not that many, really), but I've never had a working at-seat order system on Avanti...

So far these are the situations I've had:

1. I cannot connect to the on-board WiFi
2. I can connect to the on-board WiFi but no sign in page works (no DNS)
3. I can connect and sign in to the on-board WiFi, but the at-seat order website doesn't load at all
4. I can load the at-seat order website and it tells me that I need to use the on-board WiFi while using the on-board WiFi
5. The at-seat ordering system is not available

 

[Nova1]

I guess it kind of goes back to what are the customers actually looking for? Surely the onboard shop provides enough for customers. But really should this just be the end of on board catering, other than for First?

Chiltern stopped catering on their services ages ago, they said most customers preferred to purchase food/drink before they boarded.

I certainly prefer to go into tesco or similar quickly before I get on the train.

I understand that a trolly wouldn't work for an 11 car pendilino (and I hate trolleys anyway, they often just don't appear or take forever to get to you (looking at you XC))

 

[TurbineEnginee]

OAOs are budget services so I'd not expect too much. Perhaps two or three services in the full journey.

I suppose you’re right.

I remember turning up at Euston and pressing the buzzer for the lounge.

“Are you travelling first class?”

“No, I’m travelling by train”

“Do you have a first class ticket?”

“Yes”

Door opens.

 

[g492p]

I do think all the issues listed above combined with the explosion of choice on and near stations have killed on train catering. The uncertainty what, if anything, will be offered and sky high prices for poor quality were the two biggest issues for me. Most things you can buy better/cheaper before you board, does make it a pain if you want a hot drink though.

I believe even back in the good times SWT trolley services were only profitable on Waterloo - Exeter and were subsidised on the rest of the network as a customer service. Easier to do when the cash is rolling in.

I do wonder how true that is. LNER buffet and at seat always seem very busy. They are also well advertised on the train. I think when done properly, on train catering can be successful. Plus the prices at the buffet, at least on LNER, are not that much different to the catering options on stations along the route.

 

[jon0844]

My experience on Avanti has also been about 50:50 as to whether the at seat service works, whereas on my recent LNER trips it has worked 100% of the time - and delivery is damn quick, which means it's far more convenient than waiting for a trolley to come through.

I will often bring food with me from home (or a supermarket away from a station), or buy something at a station, but I also like being able to turn up for a train without being there ages in advance - which limits shopping time. Plus I do hate paying these train station shops a small fortune!

There's no hard and fast rule for me, and I suspect others. Sometimes you don't want anything, sometimes you plan ahead and sometimes you just decide on a whim to buy something on the train. Yes, that's expensive but it's classic impulse purchasing and I quite like having that option.

I guess that if they have too many days where people aren't using the service, this is a justification to get rid, but there is a big difference if LNERs service is reliable and Avanti's isn't.

 

[jagardner1984]

You’d assume there has to be a fair margin in each product sold to justify an extra “onboard host” or whatever we call them now. It seems Avanti have enough service delivery issues, and in a vicious spiral of often failing to deliver the onboard catering, now often see people turn up with their own food and drink. As presumably the switch from First to Standard premium reduced the staffing requirement.

I suppose diminishing crew size will all help deliver DfT’s cuts, no matter the howls of indignation from Mr Lynch or reduction in offering to the customers.