RMT TOC dispute update

[JonathanH]

Multiple comments on the various strike threads have been insistent that the strikes were 'nothing to do with pay'

Yes, I agree. My comment is being taken slightly out of context. It related to someone indicating that with inflation potentially falling, the pay increase on offer could be reduced.

 

[aleandrail]

Can't see the strikes lasting longer. It has gone long enough that it makes no difference to the travelling public. Its not even news anymore. Mick Lynch is getting agitated easily saw his Sky interview it was a disaster. He thinks everyone who asks a question is a government puppet.

Cheltenham festival attendance was certainly affected by the strike action

 

[LAX54]

If the RMT exec's position was as entrenched as some on here seem to believe, they wouldn't care less about a 'rebellion from members' and stick to their guns.

They may well do ! some of them may remember the disaster that befell the NUR during the 89/90 dispute.

 

[Snow1964]

It looks like RMT leadership is starting to get desperate, now saying Government should offer new money, because some was found for health

The head of the RMT transport union says transport ministers must follow the example of their colleagues in the Department of Health and offer "new money" in union negotiations.

The idea that the Government cares as much about the rail strikes, as it does about people having postponed operations, seems to me to suggest RMT leadership is delusional that they are still a Government priority.

Also seems bit daft to state rail companies are incapable of providing a service when the RMT is main reason for todays lack of service, smacks of hypocrisy

"They are incapable of providing a decent service to passengers and the sooner they are brought into public ownership the better."

Rail strikes: Transport ministers should follow health lead, says RMT

Mick Lynch says ministers must offer "new money" in union talks, as rail strikes take place.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Annetts key]

It looks like RMT leadership is starting to get desperate, now saying Government should offer new money, because some was found for health

The idea that the Government cares as much about the rail strikes, as it does about people having postponed operations, seems to me to suggest RMT leadership is delusional that they are still a Government priority.

Rail strikes: Transport ministers should follow health lead, says RMT

Mick Lynch says ministers must offer "new money" in union talks, as rail strikes take place.

www.bbc.co.uk

Why should the RMT be delusional? In the dispute on Network Rail, Network Rail have found some new money from somewhere, money that they claimed did not exist at the beginning of last year. No one here is asking how that happened…

 

[Agent_Squash]

There is that, but it would still cause a stock shortage and would likely cost a fortune.

Not really. The 450s would get the same package as the 350s, which is being fitted despite their currently being no plans for DCO on the WMR network…

It’s a modular design on modern stock - hardly the HST sliding doors programme.

 

[43066]

It looks like RMT leadership is starting to get desperate, now saying Government should offer new money, because some was found for health

On the contrary, it shows the argument that “there’s no money” is complete nonsense.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Mar 2023 ==

Why should the RMT be delusional? In the dispute on Network Rail, Network Rail have found some new money from somewhere, money that they claimed did not exist at the beginning of last year. No one here is asking how that happened…

Indeed. Funny that!

 

[Mwanesh]

Cheltenham festival attendance was certainly affected by the strike action

It has gone for so long it's not news anymore.

 

[Goldfish62]

Why should the RMT be delusional? In the dispute on Network Rail, Network Rail have found some new money from somewhere, money that they claimed did not exist at the beginning of last year. No one here is asking how that happened…

Please me correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the offer from the RDG had increased in line with the offer from NR, ie 5% instead of 4% for 2022.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Why should the RMT be delusional? In the dispute on Network Rail, Network Rail have found some new money from somewhere, money that they claimed did not exist at the beginning of last year. No one here is asking how that happened…

Considering it has been repeatedly claimed the dispute isn't about money and Network Rail are forging ahead with modernisation anyway a small increase in the pay rise can hardly be seen as an RMT victory.

 

[JoeyB]

Why should the RMT be delusional? In the dispute on Network Rail, Network Rail have found some new money from somewhere, money that they claimed did not exist at the beginning of last year. No one here is asking how that happened…

It's probably what they saved from not having to pay people during the Christmas strikes. Christmas day and boxing day are worth a fair whack. Especially when some who normally would have been booked off (and therefore paid) were instead put on the roster so that they wouldn't be paid when they were on strike.

 

[island]

Cheltenham festival attendance was certainly affected by the strike action

Cheltenham sold out every day, they intentionally sold fewer tickets than previous years due to crowding issues.

 

[Goldfish62]

Cheltenham sold out every day, they intentionally sold fewer tickets than previous years due to crowding issues.

Tickets for big race meets are sold months in advance and are non-refundable and non-exchangeable. So while the racecourse will have got its income many racegoers won't have been able to attend and instead lost the value of their tickets. Although they'd also save money through not spending on all those lost bets...

 

[blackfive460]

Cheltenham sold out every day, they intentionally sold fewer tickets than previous years due to crowding issues.

Only Friday was sold out.

• Tuesday: 68,567
• Wednesday: 64,431
• Thursday: 73,754
• Friday: 73,875

However, it's possible that the lower attendance on some days was due to racegoers not fancying paying £7.50 a pint for Guinness and equally eye watering prices for other refreshments.

 

[footprints]

Only Friday was sold out.

• Tuesday: 68,567
• Wednesday: 64,431
• Thursday: 73,754
• Friday: 73,875

However, it's possible that the lower attendance on some days was due to racegoers not fancying paying £7.50 a pint for Guinness and equally eye watering prices for other refreshments.

Looks like the Thursday strike had a massive impact on attendance. 121 fewer people could make it compared to the Friday! 9,000 more in attendance than on the non-strike day on the Wednesday. Just another example of how the RMT have succeeded in striking themselves into irrelevance.

 

[dk1]

Looks like the Thursday strike had a massive impact on attendance. 121 fewer people could make it compared to the Friday! 9,000 more in attendance than on the non-strike day on the Wednesday. Just another example of how the RMT have succeeded in striking themselves into irrelevance.

Somebody was saying who attended that the strike was rumoured to have cost the course at least £1m.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I dropped some passengers off at the local Thameslink station for the 1657 - 4 tph to London as a strike service. Was really busy passenger wise , showing that with something like a half service - admittedly only to St Pancras and with a limited traffic day , the country appears not to be in meltdown. With care and planing you can get round.

Plus the car is always available.

 

[Goldfish62]

Somebody was saying who attended that the strike was rumoured to have cost the course at least £1m.

Doing some reading it seems numbers were significantly down this year, more likely due to cost issues rather than the strike.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Doing some reading it seems numbers were significantly down this year, more likely due to cost issues rather than the strike.

I read similar -with supremely expensive local accommodation costs etc - there was a "reasonable" strike day service by rail in any case.

 

[Hadders]

I was in South West London this afternoon.

12:17 Thameslink service from Stevenage to Kings Cross was quite quiet.
District Line to Richmons was wedged
On the way home I took the 17:41 from Chiswick to Vauxhall - full and standing 10 car train. Might have been impacted by football at Brentford but the people in my carriage didn't appear to be prople who'd been at the footie
19:02 Thameslink 12-car train from Kings Cross to Stevenage was full and standing. As many people boarded at Stevenage as got off as well!

 

[gazzaa2]

Somebody was saying who attended that the strike was rumoured to have cost the course at least £1m.

Huge win for RMT.

 

[Vexed]

I went from St Albans City to Haywards Heath today and I can agree it was busy.

Going south (0857 arriving at 1053, so 30 mins longer than usual but still beating the official connection time by 15 mins for the tube) it well-loaded but everyone got a seat on both legs. Probably slightly busier than usual. However coming back on the 1345 it was standing room only from Gatwick in the middle couple of coaches though judging by the loading indicators there were a few seats elsewhere. Plenty of seats between St Pancras and St Albans on the 1529. As mentioned in another thread the temporary departure boards at St Pancras didn't list any departures under the Thameslink section!

Everything was 12 car except the 1529 from St Pancras. The Northern line between St Pancras and London Bridge had sparse seats with some people standing in both directions.

Most other trains I saw (mainly SE and Southern, who seems to be using quite a lot of GX stock today on Southern services) were well loaded and a surprising amount of people got off the EMR Connect that arrived to St Pancras just after the TL. From my use of EMR Connect up to Wellingborough it's usually been rather empty, though admittedly against peak flows.

There were lots of suitcases at Gatwick, and a few on the north side for what I assume would be mostly Luton.

 

[43096]

Huge win for RMT.

In what way? I don't see how inflicting economic hardship on others is a "win".

 

[Mwanesh]

Huge win for RMT.

In what way.

 

[Agent_Squash]

Huge win for RMT.

Damaging festivals and events is always going to have a great impact on public opinion.

 

[Topological]

Damaging festivals and events is always going to have a great impact on public opinion.

In which direction?

It sounds like Cheltenham was not particularly impacted on ticket revenues, but that those who had paid for tickets may have gained resentment for not being able to travel as intended. There is potential knock on effects on catering as identified, but assuming the course exercises their monopoly when negotiating contracts with caterers it won't be the course that makes the losses.

Whether this is another case of turning public opinion against the RMT I do not know. I suspect the truth is that it has had negligible effect.

The opening pages of the thread offer hope to those of us who just want the trains to run. Hopefully some of the worst condition changes won't happen and the more sensible elements, like reducing ticket offices, can then go through.

I did think of the strike this week when Johnny Vaughan did a whole link on how silly it was to create a big ticket hall at Euston as part of HS2 in place of a large grass area. I have no idea if it is part of the design to build up to Euston Road as part of HS2, but that is the only grassy area where a ticket hall could replace trees. The premise of the link was right, no one uses paper tickets and that made for a funny link as the whole team could not work out why they wanted to build a ticket hall. Most other links this week have been supporting the various strikes, so I think that one was not considered for its relevance to strikes.

 

[Dan G]

Pretty obviously the strike had no effect on Cheltenham.

 

[weeklycommuter]

Expense and practicality?

I could be wrong, but I can imagine that making all stations on their 3rd rail network DOO-capable and retrofitting their units for DOO would be outrageously expensive for SWR and would tie up a massive chunk of their Desiro fleet.

The drivers will open and close the doors on the new Arterio trains that SWR intend to use for all their metro services but SWR still gives no date for starting to use them for passenger train services.

 

[Bantamzen]

On the contrary, it shows the argument that “there’s no money” is complete nonsense.

Its not a case of "no money", its a case of "limited money". So different areas of the public sector will be prioritised for wage rises, or at least better rises. Its why different parts of the public sector get paid at different rates for equivalent grades. Sometimes changes in proposed working practices, staffing levels or even shuffling the limited money around will result in a better off made to one sector or another. But make no mistake, its never "new" money being found, and somewhere else will ultimately find themselves with a smaller budget. Think along the lines of "Robbing Peter to pay Paul", and you've pretty much got how these things work.

And those priorities I'm sorry to say are often politically motivated. So in this case the government does not want to take a health sector strike into 2024, which is when the campaigning for the next general election will begin in Ernest. And I'm sorry to say but it does look very much like the railways are not on the same list of political priorities. That's the bottom line I'm afraid, not helped by the fact that the union execs made the fatal mistake of making the fight as much political as a dispute over pay and T&Cs. When you are not top of the priority list, its not a good idea to go after a government that you perceive as weak when they really aren't as the unions did.

 

[dk1]

Doing some reading it seems numbers were significantly down this year, more likely due to cost issues rather than the strike.

I wouldn’t think cost comes that much into something like Cheltenham. Strikes had a huge effect on Thursday.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Mar 2023 ==

Pretty obviously the strike had no effect on Cheltenham.

It did on the Thursday. I know several who avoided that day for that very reason.