GWR Class 165/166 Turbo Diagrams

[TJDevon]

166205 according to RTT.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Mar 2023 ==

In recent weeks the number of Turbos operating in Devon had been one or two but from Tuesday (28/2) the number has increased to four. Today, Saturday, as posted above there are five, presumably the extra one possible possible due to Warminster-Salisbury being out for engineering work. What I don't understand is how the increase has been achieved Tuesday to Friday without impacting on services in the Bristol area? Anyone in the know?

 

[REVUpminster]

165105 is currently stabled in Redhill Loco sidings

i mixed up 166205 and should have been 165101

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Mar 2023 ==

166205 according to RTT.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Mar 2023 ==

In recent weeks the number of Turbos operating in Devon had been one or two but from Tuesday (28/2) the number has increased to four. Today, Saturday, as posted above there are five, presumably the extra one possible possible due to Warminster-Salisbury being out for engineering work. What I don't understand is how the increase has been achieved Tuesday to Friday without impacting on services in the Bristol area? Anyone in the know?

There has often four 166/165 over the last year. Maybe they have been getting spare parts made in Afganistan. If they can replicate Kalashnikov's then railway spare parts should be easy.

 

[plymothian]

165131 derailed at Bristol Temple Meads today, so is out until rerailed and examined.

 

[TJDevon]

There has often four 166/165 over the last year. Maybe they have been getting spare parts made in Afghanistan. If they can replicate Kalashnikov's then railway spare parts should be easy.

I quite agree that 4 x 3 car 166/165 have worked EXM-PGN services in the past but you have to go back to June/July time last year to find regular appearances, although there was one week in October when 4 worked for 4 days. In the absence of other explanations one can but assume that the current allocations are due to improved reliability, something that may not last of course........

 

[REVUpminster]

166203/210/213/214/215 working today out of Exeter. Oddly short formed 150 working.

 

[Snow1964]

GWR has some strange empty DMU workings pathed this week
Bristol to Exeter via Bath, Westbury, Yeovil, Axminster. Over 3 and quarter hours to get to service start point.

Realtime Trains | 5Z50 0210 St Philips Mrsh H S T D to Exeter St Davids | 22/03/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Z50 0210 departure from St Philips Mrsh H S T D to Exeter St Davids on 22/03/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Incidently why do some ECS workings appear as class 3, others as class 5. Eg 5A69 Stoke Gifford - Frome, followed few minutes later by 3A70 Stoke Gifford - Castle Cary. Both appear to be IETs routed via Bristol Parkway and Westbury.

Realtime Trains | 5A69 0402 Stoke Gifford to Frome | 22/03/2023

Real-time train running information for 5A69 0402 departure from Stoke Gifford to Frome on 22/03/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 3A70 0430 Stoke Gifford to Castle Cary | 22/03/2023

Real-time train running information for 3A70 0430 departure from Stoke Gifford to Castle Cary on 22/03/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Presumably it is easier to run 2 trains than run combined and uncouple a unit at Frome and continue to Castle Cary

 

[Express380]

GWR has some strange empty DMU workings pathed this week
Bristol to Exeter via Bath, Westbury, Yeovil, Axminster. Over 3 and quarter hours to get to service start point.

Realtime Trains | 5Z50 0210 St Philips Mrsh H S T D to Exeter St Davids | 22/03/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Z50 0210 departure from St Philips Mrsh H S T D to Exeter St Davids on 22/03/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Incidently why do some ECS workings appear as class 3, others as class 5. Eg 5A69 Stoke Gifford - Frome, followed few minutes later by 3A70 Stoke Gifford - Castle Cary. Both appear to be IETs routed via Bristol Parkway and Westbury.

Realtime Trains | 5A69 0402 Stoke Gifford to Frome | 22/03/2023

Real-time train running information for 5A69 0402 departure from Stoke Gifford to Frome on 22/03/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 3A70 0430 Stoke Gifford to Castle Cary | 22/03/2023

Real-time train running information for 3A70 0430 departure from Stoke Gifford to Castle Cary on 22/03/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Presumably it is easier to run 2 trains than run combined and uncouple a unit at Frome and continue to Castle Cary

Presumably the DMU working is swap Turbos,158s over while there is engineering works on between Exeter-Weston

 

[RPI]

Presumably the DMU working is swap Turbos,158s over while there is engineering works on between Exeter-Weston

I didn't think turbos were cleared between Exmouth Junction and Yeovil Pen Mill?

 

[Express380]

I didn't think turbos were cleared between Exmouth Junction and Yeovil Pen Mill?

Probably 158s then as down move takes the unit into plat 2 at St Davids at 5:28 to form a Barnstaple service at 6:12 which also appears to go from Plat 2 which is normally a 158

 

[Apedlar12]

Probably 158s then as down move takes the unit into plat 2 at St Davids at 5:28 to form a Barnstaple service at 6:12 which also appears to go from Plat 2 which is normally a 158

I believe normally the unit that does 2E94 (20:41 BNP to EXD) finishes on P2 and then does 2B70 (05:22 EXD BNP) the following morning so I guess that ECS would form 2B70 if there is no available unit for the service...

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

165131 derailed at Bristol Temple Meads today, so is out until rerailed and examined.

Derailed??? Hopefully there were no passengers onboard. How did that happen?

 

[tomm]

Think it derailed 4th March ESC movement platform 2 into Bristol Temple Meads was out for 10 days came back into service 14th March 2K04 06:04 Temple Meads to Seven Beach I think.

 

[RedPostJunc]

Incidently why do some ECS workings appear as class 3, others as class 5. Eg 5A69 Stoke Gifford - Frome, followed few minutes later by 3A70 Stoke Gifford - Castle Cary. Both appear to be IETs routed via Bristol Parkway and Westbury.

Some ECS workings are prioritised - see https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/what-class-ecs-parcels-etc.228107/post-5533474

 

[Snow1964]

I have recently had a reply from my MP regarding a letter about overcrowding on some GWR 158 and turbo services. There is an attached letter from the Rail Minister. Don't think it is correct to quote the whole personal letter my MP has forwarded on an open forum but couple of bits of Rail Ministers reply might be of interest

From time to time, it is necessary to short form services rather than cancel the services altogether. GWR and the Department prioritise safety and will not allow excess boarding when a train is full; GWR staff are trained on this and if a train reaches capacity, they will prevent further boarding.

Later on it seems DfT accept that demand might grow beyond their expectations and need intervention.

The Department will continue to support operators as they develop demand-led timetables that can adapt to passengers’ evolving needs, whilst also providing stability, and delivering the good performance passengers rightly expect to see on their railways. Where demand returns beyond expectations, Departmental officials will work with their operator counterparts to look for targeted opportunities to increase service provision where this is the right thing for the taxpayer and passenger alike.

So it appears service provision can be increased on a targeted basis. However there was no indication where the extra rolling stock might come from.

Maybe just me, but sort of feels DfT will react, but only if pushed.

 

[infobleep]

I have recently had a reply from my MP regarding a letter about overcrowding on some GWR 158 and turbo services. There is an attached letter from the Rail Minister. Don't think it is correct to quote the whole personal letter my MP has forwarded on an open forum but couple of bits of Rail Ministers reply might be of interest


Later on it seems DfT accept that demand might grow beyond their expectations and need intervention.

So it appears service provision can be increased on a targeted basis. However there was no indication where the extra rolling stock might come from.

Maybe just me, but sort of feels DfT will react, but only if pushed.

They are being reactionary rather than proactive is how it reads to me.

 

[Chorley Cake]

Anyone know where 166216 is ? Not been out for a while.

 

[FGW_DID]

Anyone know where 166216 is ? Not been out for a while.

Still as per post #1764 - Long Term Stopper at St Phillips Marsh.

 

[py_megapixel]

So it appears service provision can be increased on a targeted basis. However there was no indication where the extra rolling stock might come from.

Maybe just me, but sort of feels DfT will react, but only if pushed.

I don't like this narrative of "passenger" and "taxpayer" being separate groups. Travelling by train doesn't make one is a tax evader!

 

[Dai Corner]

I don't like this narrative of "passenger" and "taxpayer" being separate groups. Travelling by train doesn't make one is a tax evader!

Obviously there's an overlap between the two groups.

 

[Train Boy]

Anyone know where 166216 is ? Not been out for a while.

Still as per post #1764 - Long Term Stopper at St Phillips Marsh.

Photos have appeared on Facebook (11th March) showing 216 near the staff entrance end at SPM lacking wipers and panels on the front and reportedly some internal parts, I suspect FGW_DID will be much more in the know than myself, but claims that 216 has lent parts to other units temporarily whilst stopped.

 

[Only165s]

Both 165123 and 165125 on Oxford to Great Malvern services today, both vice 5 car 800s. Was quite cozy on a few of the earlier southbounds!

 

[CR165022]

165128 was allocated to a Chiltern service earlier on, I'm guessing GWR are going to lend Chiltern some units to help with the Oxford blockade situation?


EDIT: It only went to Banbury depot for fuel, and is not on hire

 

[JN114]

The 3 Turbos trapped (ish) up at Oxford are cycling via Banbury for Fuel, typically one per day.

 

[Kite159]

The 3 Turbos trapped (ish) up at Oxford are cycling via Banbury for Fuel, typically one per day.

Long term I suspect they will end up cycling via Worcester to end up in Bristol with fresh Turbos sent up from Bristol to swap over at Worcester?

 

[JN114]

Long term I suspect they will end up cycling via Worcester to end up in Bristol with fresh Turbos sent up from Bristol to swap over at Worcester?

It’s a touch over 120mi from Oxford to Bristol via Worcester - or ~10% of the units’ total fuel range; just for the one-way trip either before or after fuelling; so in total fuelling at Bristol 20% of every tank would be used purely for the journeys to and from Bristol. While it could probably be wrangled to make them both revenue earning journeys, it’s still a lot of miles just for some fuel; and would likely reintroduce cycling of Turbos between East and West of GWR and all the problems that came with that while it was going on. It is also traincrew resource instensive, and takes the best part of a whole day just for the round trip.

Chiltern have very kindly agreed to let us use somewhere much more local within a few limited restrictions. It can be done in 2.5 hours with just 1 driver and 1 fitter.

Major exams might be a different story, they can’t practically be done at Oxford or Banbury; but the preference for those would be to spend the extra miles to do them at Reading (via Worcester, Cheltenham and Swindon) to keep the fleets separate.

 

[class ep-09]

It’s a touch over 120mi from Oxford to Bristol via Worcester - or ~10% of the units’ total fuel range; just for the one-way trip either before or after fuelling; so in total fuelling at Bristol 20% of every tank would be used purely for the journeys to and from Bristol. While it could probably be wrangled to make them both revenue earning journeys, it’s still a lot of miles just for some fuel; and would likely reintroduce cycling of Turbos between East and West of GWR and all the problems that came with that while it was going on. It is also traincrew resource instensive, and takes the best part of a whole day just for the round trip.

Chiltern have very kindly agreed to let us use somewhere much more local within a few limited restrictions. It can be done in 2.5 hours with just 1 driver and 1 fitter.

Major exams might be a different story, they can’t practically be done at Oxford or Banbury; but the preference for those would be to spend the extra miles to do them at Reading (via Worcester, Cheltenham and Swindon) to keep the fleets separate.

I suppose , the Turbos could be in revenue service all the way to Bristol from Oxford if needed .
A set could run in service from Oxford to Gt Malvern and then instead going back to Oxford , it could go to Bristol ( or beyond ) and end up on the West side for maintenance without empty mileage .
Another unit could the other way around .

It probably would not require extra staff just slightly jiggling diagrams to make this set swap work .

 

[JN114]

I suppose , the Turbos could be in revenue service all the way to Bristol from Oxford if needed .
A set could run in service from Oxford to Gt Malvern and then instead going back to Oxford , it could go to Bristol ( or beyond ) and end up on the West side for maintenance without empty mileage .
Another unit could the other way around .

Great Malvern is even further!

It isn’t that it is revenue mileage or not; it’s efficiency. Why burn a fifth of your total fuel - in revenue service or not - to get to and from a fuel point when there’s a perfectly good fuel point 20 miles up the line.

We’ve just ended the painful daily swapping of Turbos between East and West; and the raft of behind the scenes issues it caused - it really, really doesn’t need to come back. The three Reading Turbos at Oxford are plenty good enough for the time being, they can be fuelled at Banbury; which should keep them going for a long while.

 

[class ep-09]

Great Malvern is even further!

It isn’t that it is revenue mileage or not; it’s efficiency. Why burn a fifth of your total fuel - in revenue service or not - to get to and from a fuel point when there’s a perfectly good fuel point 20 miles up the line.

We’ve just ended the painful daily swapping of Turbos between East and West; and the raft of behind the scenes issues it caused - it really, really doesn’t need to come back. The three Reading Turbos at Oxford are plenty good enough for the time being, they can be fuelled at Banbury; which should keep them going for a long while.

It does not matter Gt Malvern is further .

Trains still run from Oxford to Gt Malvern (8xx’s) and if need of a swap for maintenance , which Banbury can’t do , Turbo can run to Gt Malvern (v 8xx) and instead going back to Oxford , that unit can go to the West and end up in SPM at some point .
Thus same can be done the other way around .

 

[pompeyfan]

It does not matter Gt Malvern is further .

Trains still run from Oxford to Gt Malvern (8xx’s) and if need of a swap for maintenance , which Banbury can’t do , Turbo can run to Gt Malvern (v 8xx) and instead going back to Oxford , that unit can go to the West and end up in SPM at some point .
Thus same can be done the other way around .

Great Malvern is even further!

It isn’t that it is revenue mileage or not; it’s efficiency. Why burn a fifth of your total fuel - in revenue service or not - to get to and from a fuel point when there’s a perfectly good fuel point 20 miles up the line.

We’ve just ended the painful daily swapping of Turbos between East and West; and the raft of behind the scenes issues it caused - it really, really doesn’t need to come back. The three Reading Turbos at Oxford are plenty good enough for the time being, they can be fuelled at Banbury; which should keep them going for a long while.

It’s quite funny reading this interaction knowing which position JN114 holds, and then someone trying to tell them how it should be done!

 

[JN114]

It does not matter Gt Malvern is further .

Trains still run from Oxford to Gt Malvern (8xx’s) and if need of a swap for maintenance , which Banbury can’t do , Turbo can run to Gt Malvern (v 8xx) and instead going back to Oxford , that unit can go to the West and end up in SPM at some point .
Thus same can be done the other way around .

Banbury is a full light maintenance depot up to A Exam level on 16x fleets; with pit and stores.

Whilst we haven’t yet sent, or agreed to send one to Banbury for an exam, it is an option being discussed; amongst other similarly more local maintenance facilities than a grand tour of the GWR network. Even a return to Reading via High Wycombe and Greenford would be shorter than Worcester and back to SPM.