GwR HSTs to be stood down

[83G/84D]

I’m hearing rumours about the Castles lasting until May 24 now, any truth in this madness?

Reports are circulating amongst Exeter based GWR staff that 4 sets are being retained until may next year. Nothing confirmed as far as I know.

 

[Chriso]

Fantastic but why not more and scrapping the XC sets after the s**t show this Easter. I am so embarrassed by the idiots in charge at the moment .

The current GOV are utterly clueless and when things go wrong just blame the trading name (eg GWR, Avanti)

We need more accountability of these nameless twits in charge because they obviously do not have a clue what there doing

The incompetence of DFT/GOV is staggering

 

[Richard Scott]

Fantastic but why not more and scrapping the XC sets after the s**t show this Easter. I am so embarrassed by the idiots in charge at the moment .

The current GOV are utterly clueless and when things go wrong just blame the trading name (eg GWR, Avanti)

We need more accountability of these nameless twits in charge because they obviously do not have a clue what there doing

The incompetence of DFT/GOV is staggering

This even happened in BR times. In 1988 chronic shortage of type 4 traction so they withdrew all remaining 45s in early August. Obvious issues followed.

 

[northernbelle]

Reports are circulating amongst Exeter based GWR staff that 4 sets are being retained until may next year. Nothing confirmed as far as I know.

This is absolutely not confirmed. But do watch this space.

 

[irish_rail]

Crewing may begin to become an issue as if there are only 4 sets knocking around the current scenario where every depot signs castles in the south west is untenable. I haven't touched one for about 2 months and this is set to get worse. They need to look carefully at there the work goes if they do keep some on into 2024.

 

[RPI]

Crewing may begin to become an issue as if there are only 4 sets knocking around the current scenario where every depot signs castles in the south west is untenable. I haven't touched one for about 2 months and this is set to get worse. They need to look carefully at there the work goes if they do keep some on into 2024.

Logically make sense for Exeter and Penzance to retain knowledge, or even just Exeter as they sign everywhere* that castles currently go.

*assuming they will no longer go beyond Bristol Parkway

 

[irish_rail]

Logically make sense for Exeter and Penzance to retain knowledge, or even just Exeter as they sign everywhere* that castles currently go.

*assuming they will no longer go beyond Bristol Parkway

But you have the problem of Plymouth being the only depot that signs Laira, so logically it would be Plymouth too. Exeter are so stretched with their core triangle of doom work plus attempting to cover half of the b and h work (which inevitably ends up covered by Plymouth and Exeter HSS) that putting all the castle work on them will cause more problems. In a logical world Exeter shouldn't even be involved, it would have been Bristol Plymouth and Penzance only, but we are where we are.

 

[Ashley Hill]

And of course Par don’t sign IETs.

 

[irish_rail]

And of course Par don’t sign IETs.

Yes they do and in increasing numbers. Soon all at Par will sign IET.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Yes they do and in increasing numbers. Soon all at Par will sign IET.

Is that guards or drivers?

 

[irish_rail]

Both I think??? , drivers for sure. The training is in process. Originally there were i think just 6 IET drivers at Par ,but the plan changed when it was announced Castles would be dropped.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Both I think??? , drivers for sure

AFAIK no West conductors can be diagrammed IET work. Some West conductor depots sign them and get occasional cross depot work,but I believe none at Par do as they are solely West as opposed to similar depots which are mixed West/HSS.

 

[Trainbike46]

AFAIK no West conductors can be diagrammed IET work. Some West conductor depots sign them and get occasional cross depot work,but I believe none at Par do as they are solely West as opposed to similar depots which are mixed West/HSS.

But with an increasing number of the "local" services in the west going over to 80x, wouldn't that become an increasing planning nightmare?

 

[Ashley Hill]

But with an increasing number of the "local" services in the west going over to 80x, wouldn't that become an increasing planning nightmare?

Yes.

 

[Energy]

Fantastic but why not more and scrapping the XC sets after the s**t show this Easter. I am so embarrassed by the idiots in charge at the moment .

The current GOV are utterly clueless and when things go wrong just blame the trading name (eg GWR, Avanti)

We need more accountability of these nameless twits in charge because they obviously do not have a clue what there doing

The incompetence of DFT/GOV is staggering

Some of the castle class is owned by Angel, some of it is owned by First Rail Holdings. First own 21 castle mk3s and 12 power cars. First Great Western (these get passed along to whoever gets the national rail contract) also owns 5 power cars. Extending the lease on the First owned ones is a lot easier. All of XC's HSTs are owned by Porterbrook and Angel.

 

[43096]

Some of the castle class is owned by Angel, some of it is owned by First Rail Holdings. First own 21 castle mk3s and 12 power cars. First Great Western (these get passed along to whoever gets the national rail contract) also owns 5 power cars. Extending the lease on the First owned ones is a lot easier. All of XC's HSTs are owned by Porterbrook and Angel.

The power car fleet ownership for the Castle modified cars is 19 Angel, 12 FRH and 4 GWR.

 

[irish_rail]

AFAIK no West conductors can be diagrammed IET work. Some West conductor depots sign them and get occasional cross depot work,but I believe none at Par do as they are solely West as opposed to similar depots which are mixed West/HSS.

OK thats fair enough I stand corrected on the conductors.

 

[RPI]

But you have the problem of Plymouth being the only depot that signs Laira, so logically it would be Plymouth too. Exeter are so stretched with their core triangle of doom work plus attempting to cover half of the b and h work (which inevitably ends up covered by Plymouth and Exeter HSS) that putting all the castle work on them will cause more problems. In a logical world Exeter shouldn't even be involved, it would have been Bristol Plymouth and Penzance only, but we are where we are.

Fair point, I hadn't thought of that! (That's why I just clip the tickets haha)

 

[Western Sunset]

The roof of some HST Castle trailers are now getting very patchy.

 

[physics34]

Fantastic but why not more and scrapping the XC sets after the s**t show this Easter. I am so embarrassed by the idiots in charge at the moment .

The current GOV are utterly clueless and when things go wrong just blame the trading name (eg GWR, Avanti)

We need more accountability of these nameless twits in charge because they obviously do not have a clue what there doing

The incompetence of DFT/GOV is staggering

Seriously dont know why this GBR super brain is taking so long to assemble/start. Get a British Railways Board up and running ASAP. Kick the Rail Delivery Group and DfT into touch NOW. They are ruining our railway and stunting potential growth.

 

[chuff chuff]

The roof of some HST Castle trailers are now getting very patchy.

Scotrail's coaches look just the same and they still have years ahead of them.

 

[Ashley Hill]

In a logical world Exeter shouldn't even be involved, it would have been Bristol Plymouth and Penzance only

I forgot to mention that Bristol West conductors do not sign west of Taunton so Exeter have (and want) to be involved.

 

[Pete_uk]

Would such patching not effect the structural integrity?

 

[Meerkat]

Seriously dont know why this GBR super brain is taking so long to assemble/start. Get a British Railways Board up and running ASAP. Kick the Rail Delivery Group and DfT into touch NOW. They are ruining our railway and stunting potential growth.

You are assuming that GBR won’t be roughly the same group of people making the same mistakes, and that it will grow a secret money tree the Treasury don’t find out about?

 

[Clarence Yard]

Seriously dont know why this GBR super brain is taking so long to assemble/start. Get a British Railways Board up and running ASAP. Kick the Rail Delivery Group and DfT into touch NOW. They are ruining our railway and stunting potential growth.

You do realise that GBR will still be subject to significant policy direction from the DfT. Also RDG don’t really make the decisions - they are a conduit for the DfT. The DfT have seen to that.

I can see the merit in briefly retaining some HST sets that are still within their “shopping” life but it will be costly and keeping crew knowledge going won’t be easy either.

 

[CDM]

You are assuming that GBR won’t be roughly the same group of people making the same mistakes, and that it will grow a secret money tree the Treasury don’t find out about?

Yep. Unfortunately even if you did take the direct DFT meddling out of the equation, the senior leadership team in the industry is full of a hell of a lot of duffers these days. Uninspiring, lacking in real direct experience and absolutely no gumption to strongly represent the industry and take it forward. They're just meek puppets to the politicised DFT, completely failing staff. I've never felt the industry is so poorly represented and let down, in all my years.

(am aware this is entirely OT of course!)

 

[43096]

Yep. Unfortunately even if you did take the direct DFT meddling out of the equation, the senior leadership team in the industry is full of a hell of a lot of duffers these days. Uninspiring, lacking in real direct experience and absolutely no gumption to strongly represent the industry and take it forward. They're just meek puppets to the politicised DFT, completely failing staff. I've never felt the industry is so poorly represented and let down, in all my years.

(am aware this is entirely OT of course!)

Perhaps you could enlighten us as to what your experience of senior management is?

 

[JonathanH]

the senior leadership team in the industry is full of a hell of a lot of duffers these days. Uninspiring, lacking in real direct experience and absolutely no gumption to strongly represent the industry and take it forward.

Are you suggesting that, given their own way, the senior leadership team for the railway would retain the HSTs, and that it is only the nasty DfT who are preventing this, or that if they had gumption they would be magically coming up with a source of revenue that paid for a different future for the railway?

Was it not senior leadership in the railway who managed to make the case for HSTs to continue until now?

 

[CDM]

Are you suggesting that, given their own way, the senior leadership team for the railway would retain the HSTs, and that it is only the nasty DfT who are preventing this, or that if they had gumption they would be magically coming up with a source of revenue that paid for a different future for the railway?

Was it not senior leadership in the railway who managed to make the case for HSTs to continue until now?

I wasn't making any comment in relation to the retention or otherwise of the HSTs. I was replying to the specific point made about the GBR team.
That's why I specifically quoted the previous point about the GBR team, didn't quote anything about HSTs and why I also stated it was OT (Off-Topic).


To answer your question there though. Senior leadership in the industry hasn't 'made a case for HST's to continue until now'. They're still around because of simple decisions made in the franchise bids by the franchise bid teams at the time, based purely on what stacked up financially at that time and what rolling stock was available at that time. And that's then been inherited by the short term emergency measures agreements and short term rail contracts that have picked up the pieces of Covid. There's no 'senior leadership in the railway' case making about that, either way.

(And whether HSTs stay or don't, has no part to play in why I made my comment about the industry senior leadership team)

 

[Clarence Yard]

The GTi sets had nothing to do with the franchise bidding process.

They were suggested by the GWR senior management team to the DfT as a way of getting out of the mess that the delays in electrification had caused to the “as bid” DMU cascade. That also involved the then looming Pacer replacement issue.