Bala Lake Needs you help

[Narrowgauge725]

Bala Lake Railway Trust is asking for your help and support by making a positive representation to the Planning Committee quoting planning application NP5/53/576

Bala Lake Railway Trust News

The latest news on the Red Dragon Project from the Bala Lake Railway Trust.

www.balalakerailwaytrust.org.uk

Our application for the extension goes before the planning committee of the Snowdonia National Park on 19th April currently with a recommendation for refusal. We understand that the grounds for this is the additional phosphate levels in the River Dee Special Area of Conservation, which fails to meet its targets further downstream between Corwen and Chirk. The assertion being made is because this project is within the River Dee catchment upstream of Corwen, any additional visitors the railway will attract to Bala is likely (through increased effluent) to have a “significant effect” on the phosphate levels in the water. However, using the worst-case calculations with no mitigating solutions put in place, our projection is that the additional visitors to the area would only increase the levels by 0.044%....

 

[John Luxton]

Sadly the plans have been rejected.

Bala: Heritage steam railway extension plans rejected

Eyri National Park Authority cited concerns over the impact of the new track on nearby waterways.

www.bbc.co.uk

Plans to extend a heritage steam railway into the centre of Bala, Gwynedd, have been rejected.
Officers at Eryri - also known as Snowdonia - said they agreed with the principle of expanding Bala Lake Railway, but recommended refusal.
The national park's planning committee officially turned down the proposals on Wednesday.
Supporters had argued for approval with conditions, or a decision deferral.
One of the reasons cited for the rejection was the impact on phosphate levels in nearby waterways.

The excuse one of the most flimsy going.

 

[geoffk]

The land for the new town centre station has already been purchased, surely? Presumably there's an appeal process.

 

[John Luxton]

The land for the new town centre station has already been purchased, surely? Presumably there's an appeal process.

They had an open day on the new station site in 2021. The extension has widespread support locally as well including local politicians. It all seems to hinge on the potential for increased phosphate levels in the local rivers due to extra visitors caused by the railway's extension using public toilets. So crazy! Goodness knows what happens next.

 

[D Williams]

They are dealing with the "woke" Welsh government of course.

 

[John Luxton]

They are dealing with the "woke" Welsh government of course.

The local politicians were actually behind the scheme.

 

[D821]

Its difficult to understand that decision based on what I've read here

 

[D Williams]

That's that then. Moral, do your homework before you start a project.

Bala: Heritage steam railway extension plans rejected

Eyri National Park Authority cited concerns over the impact of the new track on nearby waterways.

www.bbc.co.uk

The national park's planning committee officially turned down the proposals on Wednesday.

Supporters had argued for approval with conditions, or a decision deferral.

One of the reasons cited for the rejection was the impact on phosphate levels in nearby waterways.

 

[geoffk]

That's that then. Moral, do your homework before you start a project.

Bala: Heritage steam railway extension plans rejected

Eyri National Park Authority cited concerns over the impact of the new track on nearby waterways.

www.bbc.co.uk

I expect common sense will prevail in the end. Can't the Senedd over-ride the NP's decision?

 

[John Luxton]

That's that then. Moral, do your homework before you start a project.

Bala: Heritage steam railway extension plans rejected

Eyri National Park Authority cited concerns over the impact of the new track on nearby waterways.

www.bbc.co.uk

But everyone has always known that the railway intended eventually to reach Bala town. I recall it opening when I was a teenager and it was back in the 70s always stated that Bala was the aim. To pull the plug at this stage is just mean spirited and the reason quite pathetic.

Unfortunately Bala don't appear to be the only line having National Park Problems - there has been a hitch with Lynton and Barnstaple reopening from Killington Lane to Parracombe thanks to Exmoor National Park Authority. Though in the case of the L&B quite a few of the locals appear anti-railway. This does not appear to be the case at Bala where its extension is seen as an asset.

 

[Bertie the bus]

To pull the plug at this stage is just mean spirited and the reason quite pathetic.

The excuse one of the most flimsy going.

You have claimed the "excuse" is both flimsy and pathetic but haven't stated which "excuse" you are referring to. Presumably the one mentioned in the BBC article but Cambrian News has a somewhat better article and there are numerous "excuses" and the authority says as the application didn't even satisfy regulatory requirements they couldn't approve it:

Bala application to extend railway line refused

An application to extend Bala Lake Railway line has been refused.

www.cambrian-news.co.uk

"The recommendation for members to reject the permission was based on several reasons. Although there was potential for some issues to be resolved through the provision of further information by the applicant, others were of such significance that they could not have been resolved within the scope of this application, despite Planning Officers’ working closely with the developers from the very beginning. These included the effect of the development on the River Dee and Llyn Tegid Special Area of Conservation; as well as insufficient information about the development’s effect on the local road network in terms of access, traffic and congestion levels, and the safety of pedestrians and road users. Natural Resources Wales and the Welsh Government’s Highways Department also objected to the approval of the application.

"The authority recognises the economic benefits of this development to the town of Bala, and it sympathises with the applicant’s dissappointment. Planning officers support the principle of this development, and are of the opinion that there is potential for this development to be approved in the future, provided that all the required information is submitted. However, as some aspects of the application does not satisfy regulatory requirements, it was impossible for planning officers to recommend the approval of the application today.

"The applicant is free to appeal the decision, or to re-submit the application once all the relevant information has come to hand.”

 

[Pacef8]

Bala has certainly turned itself around despite the local drunks . I just feel their is some sort of pecking order for trains and politicians from snowdon don't want them over the hill taking our tourists away. As for the dee becoming soiled you need to see the money welsh water pay as subsidies to farmers on its banks and tributaries to eliminate “contaminates” .

 

[Alanko]

Bala has certainly turned itself around despite the local drunks . I just feel their is some sort of pecking order for trains and politicians from snowdon don't want them over the hill taking our tourists away. As for the dee becoming soiled you need to see the money welsh water pay as subsidies to farmers on its banks and tributaries to eliminate “contaminates” .

Why the need for some vast conspiracy? It reads like they didn't submit a very good application, and were rejected accordingly.

 

[32475]

Did you employ a planning consultant to produce a robust application?
If you did then they ought to reinforce the documentation with proposals to mitigate whatever the grounds for refusal and then either appeal the decision or resubmit it.
If you didn’t employ a planning consultant then I recommend that you do.

 

[geoffk]

Did you employ a planning consultant to produce a robust application?
If you did then they ought to reinforce the documentation with proposals to mitigate whatever the grounds for refusal and then either appeal the decision or resubmit it.
If you didn’t employ a planning consultant then I recommend that you do.

Could be right. BLR can submit a new planning application and if they take on board the reasons for rejection they should be successful. This will cost money of course and take time.

 

[Barclay]

Most planning authorities will allow you a revised application for free if one has been rejected. Reading comments on the website, it looks like they need to address concerns by the highway authority as well as the points about phosphates, which seem to be a much broader issue.

 

[JKF]

Presumably with the phosphate thing they will be looking to tap up the railway for a contribution towards the improvement of local sewage treatment infrastructure to take on the additional capacity. That could be a significant cost.

 

[6Gman]

You have claimed the "excuse" is both flimsy and pathetic but haven't stated which "excuse" you are referring to. Presumably the one mentioned in the BBC article but Cambrian News has a somewhat better article and there are numerous "excuses" and the authority says as the application didn't even satisfy regulatory requirements they couldn't approve it:

Bala application to extend railway line refused

An application to extend Bala Lake Railway line has been refused.

www.cambrian-news.co.uk

You are correct.

Having read the list of comments submitted in response to the proposals they cover an awful lot more than just the phosphate issue. In particular there is a direction to refuse from the Trunk Roads Authority, so permission could not be granted.

Strikes me that this was a poorly prepared application (and having spent 20+ years as a councillor, sat on a planning committee, and worked as Clerk to several parish councils I have some familiarity with planning!).

 

[John Luxton]

"Uproar in Snowdonia over ‘crazy’ decision to flush railway scheme down the pan over surging tourist poo fears[/I][/B][/HEADING]
Train buffs now wonder if future tourists will be forced to 'take a dump' before heading to parts of North Wales"

The Latest report from the Daily Post Newspaper: https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/no...tpY8duFSAI5JcPtdEsLRaW7mRqj7cs-bcM0N26dp6wXLs

 

[D821]

That article seems to glaze over the missed traffic implications for the sake of a load of toilet puns.

Is sewage piped into the Dee? I assume it's still treated, first - are phosphates difficult to remove?

 

[6Gman]

That article seems to glaze over the missed traffic implications for the sake of a load of toilet puns.
Is sewage piped into the Dee? I assume its still treated, first - are phosphates difficult to remove?

Even by the standards of the Daily Post that is a very poor article.

On the matter of phosphates standards have ben raised in recent years (our local sewage works has had a recent refit as otherwise it would fail to meet the new standards) and the solution in the long-term will be for the relevant works in Bala to be upgraded.

In the meantime, and as pointed out by the planning officers, there are other planning matters that would also need to be addressed.

 

[John Luxton]

That article seems to glaze over the missed traffic implications for the sake of a load of toilet puns.
Is sewage piped into the Dee? I assume its still treated, first - are phosphates difficult to remove?

From my observations of driving around the area the railway's plans may reduce traffic.

More incentive for those from the west to park at Llanuwchllyn to travel into Bala for a start. There is free parking at the station there. The main car park in Bala is pay and display.

There is also limited parking around the current Penybont terminal, relocating to Bala town centre would reduce pressure there.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Apr 2023 ==

Even by the standards of the Daily Post that is a very poor article.

It is Reach plc - what do you expect!

 

[geoffk]

Presumably with the phosphate thing they will be looking to tap up the railway for a contribution towards the improvement of local sewage treatment infrastructure to take on the additional capacity. That could be a significant cost.

Will they do the same for coach operators who bring in parties of visitors?

 

[6Gman]

Will they do the same for coach operators who bring in parties of visitors?

No, but if somebody wants to install a coach park with toilet facilities then yes they almost certainly would.

And, as I pointed out in post #18, the refusal of permission covered a lot more than just the sewage issues.

 

[chesterred16]

As a Wrexham fan, we've recently had conditions imposed on a new stand which limit its capacity, because of the phosphates issue. The general feeling is that the water companies are angling for more money, and this is a bit of a made-up issue which writing a sizeable cheque in due course will solve. The solution here will be pressure from the relevant councils and residents on to the National Park Authority to reverse their decision which will have a negative impact on tourism into a town which relies on it. If I was a betting man I'd say the extension will still get built.

 

[DarloRich]

Goodness me there is some nonsense on this thread!

@6Gman has it right. It seems to me that further, better and deeper stakeholder engagement AND a better quality application are required. All parties seem to be on side with the application and the planning committee have been quite transparent in thier thinking!

This is a set back for the railway but one that can be overcome.

 

[MarkyT]

If I was a betting man I'd say the extension will still get built.

Maybe. Perhaps the applicants just haven't directed enough anonymous brown envelopes towards the right individuals yet. Just to be clear, this isn't a particular dig at Welsh affairs, but at Bureaucracy everywhere!

 

[John Luxton]

I am wondering if the announcement on August 29 of a relaxation in the EU Imposed environment rules could make the task of extending the railway into Bala town centre easier?

 

[geoffk]

I am wondering if the announcement on August 29 of a relaxation in the EU Imposed environment rules could make the task of extending the railway into Bala town centre easier?

Actually the EU didn't "impose" any rules. They were agreed by member states of which the UK, until recently, was one.

 

[6Gman]

Actually the EU didn't "impose" any rules. They were agreed by member states of which the UK, until recently, was one.

And I believe it may be a devolved matter so the announcement by Mr Gove may not be relevant.

EDIT: (And does nothing about the various other issues with the application!)