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Teenagers enter the London Overground train cab and play with the driver's switches

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sjoh

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Years ago, I was a passenger on a Class 156 on which a notorious local "problem child" was making his weekly journey to his special school for problem children. During the journey he got up to use the toilet at the back of the unit to find the door locked (because somebody else was inside). Foolishly, another passenger told him that there was a switch in the cab that released the toilet door. Without a pause, he entered the back cab and started flicking switches randomly, causing the lights in the saloon to go out for a moment.

So the real problem was another passenger who thought it entertaining to wind up a young person who must've been clearly identifiable (from your rather unkind description of "problem child") as having additional support needs...

What a charmer.
 
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How often does such an incident occur at your school? If all this evidence is put online, surely the culprits are not able to continue to act in this way? Or is there a seemingly limitless supply of people who behave this way?
Sadly the school is either unaware of some incidents or doesn't do enough to stop them. I was beaten up when I was in a lower year (about 12) by a group of older students(15 or 16) who I didn't know. I was off for the next 3 days because my leg was in to much pain to walk. I reported it to the school and never heard anything more about it. They said they would contact the police about it as well(the incident took place just off school ground). Never heard anything back from the police either. I think this lack of a response and lack of punishment for those involved is prevalent in many schools around the country and is the root cause of anti social behaviour leaving school groups and entering greater society.
 

duncan788

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I think it wouldn't be too difficult to make a legitimate announcement on the train.I just watched a YouTube video this morning that showed a tube driver allowing someone to make a Jubilee Line train announcement.
 

zwk500

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I think it wouldn't be too difficult to make a legitimate announcement on the train.I just watched a YouTube video this morning that showed a tube driver allowing someone to make a Jubilee Line train announcement.
Making an announcement wouldn't overly concern me. I'd be more worried about them potentially hitting the Emergency Call button on the Radio, which would bring every train in the area to a halt until it could be established that it was safe to continue.
As @Bletchleyite has mentioned, to do anything more serious would require the driver's key, which they likely didn't have. Although they could have moved switch positions from where they should be after a cab has been properly shut down, which could cause delays as the driver tries to identify the problem.
 

yorkie

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I think it wouldn't be too difficult to make a legitimate announcement on the train.I just watched a YouTube video this morning that showed a tube driver allowing someone to make a Jubilee Line train announcement
I'm not sure how that relates to this video?
Sadly the school is either unaware of some incidents or doesn't do enough to stop them.
People view these videos and don't report them?
I was beaten up when I was in a lower year (about 12) by a group of older students(15 or 16) who I didn't know. I was off for the next 3 days because my leg was in to much pain to walk. I reported it to the school and never heard anything more about it. They said they would contact the police about it as well(the incident took place just off school ground). Never heard anything back from the police either. I think this lack of a response and lack of punishment for those involved is prevalent in many schools around the country and is the root cause of anti social behaviour leaving school groups and entering greater society.
This sounds implausible to me; surely if you were beaten up the issue would be investigated? Why not chase it up, and ask your parents to chase it up if necessary? I'd also advise that anything which is reportable to the police is best reported directly by the victim.
 

zwk500

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This sounds implausible to me; surely if you were beaten up the issue would be investigated? Why not chase it up, and ask your parents to chase it up if necessary? I'd also advise that anything which is reportable to the police is best reported directly by the victim.
The resources available to schools to investigate this sort of thing are low to none, and have been for some time. Unless you've got a good image of their face or willing witness, it would be a 'you said, they said' level of evidence even if you could clearly identify the attackers.
(I imagine the teachers will have a fairly good idea of which students it may be, but actually having evidence to take action is a completely different kettle of fish).
 

Trainrave

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Cab security requires an urgent review.
T-Key access is far too easy.
Imagine someone being able to access a driving cab whilst a train is moving.
 
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People view these videos and don't report them?

This sounds implausible to me; surely if you were beaten up the issue would be investigated? Why not chase it up, and ask your parents to chase it up if necessary? I'd also advise that anything which is reportable to the police is best reported directly by the victim.
They are reported, punishments(when they are given) aren't strong enough to deter people from doing them.

I followed it up a few months later, no reply. It has been years now, there is probably no record of it now.

I can only imagine there is a similar situation in many schools across the country. This indifference on the schools part is what is leading to this sort of stuff getting online. Today, trespassing in the drivers cab, tomorrow stabbings and other violent crimes. All for attention on social media. What a world to live in.
 

yorkie

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The resources available to schools to investigate this sort of thing are low to none, and have been for some time. Unless you've got a good image of their face or willing witness, it would be a 'you said, they said' level of evidence even if you could clearly identify the attackers.
(I imagine the teachers will have a fairly good idea of which students it may be, but actually having evidence to take action is a completely different kettle of fish).
While it is true that school resources are stretched, the statement was made that "people recording violent fights where people get seriously hurt and racing to be the first to post them on tik tok and instagram"; if this is happening in school then unless the footage is incredibly poor quality, it should be relatively straightforward to identify the attackers.

They are reported, punishments(when they are given) aren't strong enough to deter people from doing them.
If there is video evidence of violent fights, this needs to be sent directly to the police as well as the school.
I followed it up a few months later, no reply. It has been years now, there is probably no record of it now.
A parent/carer called the school and they simply didn't agree to speak to them?
I can only imagine there is a similar situation in many schools across the country.
I think you'd need to be a bit more specific about what you think is happening; if the suggestion is that violent fights are regularly recorded and uploaded and then nothing is done about them, I would seriously question that.

There is the separate debate about whether or not there is any punishment that schools can give out which is effective for the worst kids; the answer is sadly that there isn't any such punishment that is an effective deterrent to some kids, but that's a whole topic in itself.
This indifference on the schools part is what is leading to this sort of stuff getting online.
I doubt that; what I think is encouraging this sort of stuff getting online is the views and attention it gets, encouraged by the (lax) moderation and policies of organisations such as TikTok.

Are there really schools up and down the country who are given regular footage of fights occurring in schools, which the schools then choose not to look at and refuse to speak to the victims? I find that very difficult to believe.
Today, trespassing in the drivers cab, tomorrow stabbings and other violent crimes. All for attention on social media. What a world to live in.
Sadly, stabbings and violent crimes are not merely crimes of "tomorrow" and have been around for a very long time, but this belongs in a separate thread if you wish to discuss that further (it may be worth exploring some statistics).
 
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Railsigns

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So the real problem was another passenger who thought it entertaining to wind up a young person who must've been clearly identifiable (from your rather unkind description of "problem child") as having additional support needs...
Just to be clear, the child in question was a volatile individual whose behaviour included throwing snowballs and hard-boiled sweets inside the train. There was nothing unusual about his appearance or his ability to comprehend. He travelled without an adult companion on his regular three-hour-long train journeys. "Problem child" is putting it kindly.
 
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While it is true that school resources are stretched, the statement was made that "people recording violent fights where people get seriously hurt and racing to be the first to post them on tik tok and instagram"; if this is happening in school then unless the footage is incredibly poor quality, it should be relatively straightforward to identify the attackers.


If there is video evidence of violent fights, this needs to be sent directly to the police as well as the school.

A parent/carer called the school and they simply didn't agree to speak to them?

I think you'd need to be a bit more specific about what you think is happening; if the suggestion is that violent fights are regularly recorded and uploaded and then nothing is done about them, I would seriously question that.

There is the separate debate about whether or not there is any punishment that schools can give out which is effective for the worst kids; the answer is generally that there isn't any such punishment that they really care about, but that's a whole topic in itself.

I doubt that; what is encouraging this sort of stuff getting online is the views and attention it gets, encouraged by the likes of TikTok. Are there really schools up and down the country who are given regular footage of fights occurring in schools, which the schools then choose not to look at? I find that very difficult to believe.

Sadly stabbings and violent crimes are not merely crimes of "tomorrow" and have been around for a very long time, but this belongs in a separate thread if you wish to discuss that further (it may be worth exploring some statistics).

I don't know the fine details, all I know is it is happening. I am seeing it happen with my own eyes. I have vulnerable friends constently being harrased by people for no reason other then content and it only takes one look at tik tok or instagram to see that this isn't a local issue, it is a national one. And I can't see enough being done about it.
 

bramling

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The amount of anti social behaviour on public transport and in general is insane. As a teenager I am ashamed of what a reputaion some teenagers give us as a whole.

To be fair, it isn’t just teenagers by a long way. Since 2019 there has been a decline in standards of behaviour across the age range, and it’s not like our politicians have been setting a good example either.
 

whoosh

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Sadly the school is either unaware of some incidents or doesn't do enough to stop them. I was beaten up when I was in a lower year (about 12) by a group of older students(15 or 16) who I didn't know. I was off for the next 3 days because my leg was in to much pain to walk. I reported it to the school and never heard anything more about it. They said they would contact the police about it as well(the incident took place just off school ground). Never heard anything back from the police either. I think this lack of a response and lack of punishment for those involved is prevalent in many schools around the country and is the root cause of anti social behaviour leaving school groups and entering greater society.

I've known a school actively not want the police involved when a staff member was attacked, and again when a sexual assault took place in a toilet, because they didn't want to be in the news for the wrong reasons and jeopardise their "excellent" OFSTED rating.
The moral compass of school leadership teams and their corruption is just another barrier to a decent society.
 

yorkie

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I've known a school actively not want the police involved when a staff member was attacked, and again when a sexual assault took place in a toilet, because they didn't want to be in the news for the wrong reasons and jeopardise their "excellent" OFSTED rating.
The moral compass of school leadership teams and their corruption is just another barrier to a decent society.
In both cases I would urge the victim (or parents, where applicable) to ensure the matter is reported to the police. A school can't prevent the police being informed; are you able to elaborate what the school said? I doubt this is commonplace and Ofsted would surely take a dim view of this if informed; if complaints are made to Ofsted, they can take action (including carrying out an immediate inspection) if appropriate.
 

bramling

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I'd not intervene on this because bar mucking about with the horn they can't do a lot without the driver's key, which they won't have, and there is the risk of being stabbed.

Whilst there’s little someone can do immediately, it’s still undesirable to have people tampering in cabs. Someone could, for example, flick a switch which cuts out a piece of safety equipment, which won’t be an issue at the time but might become one when the train is next driven from that cab - this could certainly end up being dangerous if the driver isn’t aware.

It’s sobering to think that not so many generations ago Underground trains didn’t even need a lock on the cab doors.
 

Horizon22

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BTP have been tagged in a reposting of it on Twitter, so I expect they will get a knock on the door soon enough as faces are easily recognisable.

But this just highlights further that T keys are not secure enough and direly need replacing (on the video, the emegency exit break glass on the cab door appears undamaged, so unless it wasn't locked properly...)

You normally need a slightly different key to enter a driving cab. Looks like Stratford Platforms 1/2 which is often an...interesting place.

People view these videos and don't report them?

Of course they do. I'd say 99% of people viewing wouldn't report it. Its mostly other youth watching it or people who couldn't be bothered to report it or even know who to.
 

Sebastian O

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I quite like the video and it’s made me laugh. Nobodies been harmed and yes it’s a bit antisocial, but let’s just keep some context with it - the ridiculous correlations between the breakdown of society or fights at school or even worse, sexual assault - are unbelievably brainless comments to make. You are strongly diminishing how unbelievably serious these things are - where’s the link? It’s purile culture war behaviour that has no place in society.

The reality is the BR key is far too easy to access regardless of how they got it - it’s the stupidity of ‘not my problem hub’ that has seeped through railway culture. They could have sorted a proper technical solution a long time ago yet refused to do so. We don’t have the same key for every ambulance across London otherwise there would be pandemonium and some real issues. Not some kids having a go on the tones.
 
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gimmea50anyday

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As my eldest daughter found out to her cost, her school logged, investigated and dealt with every report of bullying they were made aware of. OFSTED used their own reports as proof the school was rife with bullying rather than as proof the issue was dealt with and nipped in the bud. The school was closed down.

Middle daughters school who has the local MP on the board of governors (and had a hand in getting eldest daughters school shut down because her own school plans had been turned down by the DfE) she was attacked by a group of peers in the playground with a teacher stood less than 10 feet away, said teacher would not intervene and turned AWAY from the kerfuffle so they couldn't see it. Daughter was injured and was suspended "for her own safety" after head of year admitted to us the ringleader was a known troublemaker yet no action was taken against her other than a police report made. She continued to attend school while my daughter was offered a graduated return. Needless to say she was pulled out of that school.....

That school reported low instances of bullying to OFSTED.....

You normally need a slightly different key to enter a driving cab.

The standard T-key used for light switches for example and the securi-t-key are a little different. The secure version has a central pin and sits in a square flange which prevents square pegs such as the dowel out of interior door handles wont fit them amd are relatively secure as a result. What makes them insecure is the same multi purpose T-key that fits and issued to train crew is also available for sale on fleabay...
 
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357

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Is there a convincing safety case for the horn always (apparently) being operable?
Yes. In the event of a total failure of train controls, and the train is being propelled or driven from another cab, another driver or suitably qualified member of staff must stay in the defective cab to give shunting instructions over a secure communication link. This person must have the ability to stop the train and the ability to warn of the trains presence.

While some other things that work without a key would likely just be a software change to fix, the horn is an air operated system on most units with the only electronic element being the sensors to log the horn use on the data recorder.
 

zwk500

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I quite like the video and it’s made me laugh. Nobodies been harmed and yes it’s a bit antisocial, but let’s just keep some context with it
The context is that the kids are somewhere they should never be, and know that. While thee they are messing about with safety controls recklessly, which could lead to damage to the train or even intiate an emergency call that will stop every train in the local area while they establish whether its safe or not.
If this is Stratford, a GSMR REC would be extremely disruptive especially as there'd be no driver anywhere near the cab to report the situation to the signaller.
 

Bletchleyite

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Whilst there’s little someone can do immediately, it’s still undesirable to have people tampering in cabs. Someone could, for example, flick a switch which cuts out a piece of safety equipment, which won’t be an issue at the time but might become one when the train is next driven from that cab - this could certainly end up being dangerous if the driver isn’t aware.

Oh, it's not desirable, which is why I think the railway needs to up its game on key security. But it's not enough of a risk for me to put myself in potential physical danger to prevent it, unlike, for instance, if I witnessed someone trying to gain access to an aircraft cockpit in flight.

It’s sobering to think that not so many generations ago Underground trains didn’t even need a lock on the cab doors.

When I was a kid Merseyrail drivers and guards usually left the door wide open when changing ends. I did go and have a look through the door once but didn't go in. There almost seemed to be an invisible force field even for the scallies!
 

greatkingrat

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Even if you could magically change every lock on every train overnight, the keys are never going to be truly secure when tens of thousands of people legitimately have keys.
 

Russel

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I quite like the video and it’s made me laugh. Nobodies been harmed and yes it’s a bit antisocial, but let’s just keep some context with it - the ridiculous correlations between the breakdown of society or fights at school or even worse, sexual assault - are unbelievably brainless comments to make. You are strongly diminishing how unbelievably serious these things are - where’s the link? It’s purile culture war behaviour that has no place in society.

It's concerning how easy it was for them to access the cab, but I have to agree, I found it somewhat amusing, if you go back through some of the other "Mizzy" videos on TikTok, it seems to be his style, to do something 'antisocial' or just something against the rules to get a reaction, while never actually doing any harm to anyone.

Some of his other videos are actually quite funny.
 

Peter Mugridge

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The context is that the kids are somewhere they should never be, and know that. While thee they are messing about with safety controls recklessly, which could lead to damage to the train or even intiate an emergency call that will stop every train in the local area while they establish whether its safe or not.
If this is Stratford, a GSMR REC would be extremely disruptive especially as there'd be no driver anywhere near the cab to report the situation to the signaller.
Watching the video carefully, one of them does almost press the big red button... but then seems to realise that it wouldn't be a good idea to actually do it.
 

AlterEgo

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It's concerning how easy it was for them to access the cab, but I have to agree, I found it somewhat amusing, if you go back through some of the other "Mizzy" videos on TikTok, it seems to be his style, to do something 'antisocial' or just something against the rules to get a reaction, while never actually doing any harm to anyone.

Some of his other videos are actually quite funny.
Someone twice his size will eventually put him through a wall and that’ll put a stop to him being an antisocial fool.
 

Meerkat

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Watching the video carefully, one of them does almost press the big red button... but then seems to realise that it wouldn't be a good idea to actually do it.
Blimey - that's some self control..."Wonder what the big red button does.......mustn't push the big red button.....can't resist..."

Someone twice his size will eventually put him through a wall and that’ll put a stop to him being an antisocial fool.
Need to pick the shops/takeaways carefully, or he might barge into a backroom to see activity by rather serious folk who really don't want random witnesses.
 

Peter Mugridge

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Blimey - that's some self control..."Wonder what the big red button does.......mustn't push the big red button.....can't resist..."
Might possibly have awareness of what it is and realises that it would result in an uncomfortable evening in a cell...?

Not sure really - does it look to you like he just realises it's a bad idea or that he is aware of what it does?
 

zwk500

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Might possibly have awareness of what it is and realises that it would result in an uncomfortable evening in a cell...?

Not sure really - does it look to you like he just realises it's a bad idea or that he is aware of what it does?
It don't see when any of them go near the GSMR REC button - do you have a timestamp?
 

Peter Mugridge

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It don't see when any of them go near the GSMR REC button - do you have a timestamp?
I'm at work, so I'll have to look tonight.... can't watch it here... but from memory it's about three quarters the way through but is only a few seconds long.
 
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