GwR HSTs to be stood down

[yorksrob]

What’s is so difficult?

Apparently the electrics are quite old and the buttons play up sometimes.

Obviously I pointed out their excellent ambiance

 

[Ashley Hill]

Apparently the electrics are quite old and the buttons play up sometimes.

I haven’t noticed on Castles. IETs have their door issues too! I’ve always felt more tired after working an IET that I ever did on an HST including running around in circles with the SDO. It’s probably the boredom factor on IETs.

 

[Pete_uk]

...you can bearly hear the engines inside...

Can't really agree on that. Plus you have that highish pitched noice that cuts in around 50ish mph

 

[fgwrich]

Can't really agree on that. Plus you have that highish pitched noice that cuts in around 50ish mph

Likewise, unless the GU is dead. One I had last week from Camborne to Penzance was certainly rather noisy (an 800).

 

[michael74]

Yea because the incessant racket from the MK3 corridor connection and squeeky suspension isn't at all irritating...

 

[fgwrich]

Yea because the incessant racket from the MK3 corridor connection and squeeky suspension isn't at all irritating...

It depends on how they are set up and maintained. If for example you have one presumably formed up on a curve like this one last week, it did squeak. If it’s flat and well oiled, it won’t squeak. Most didn’t last week and the internal doors were fine. And if anything, the creakiest gangways were the more worn out ones couples to the power car. But then again, some on here seem to assume that old = creaky noisy rattling broken and falling apart, yet anything newer is fine including a rather high pitched whine from the Traction Motors.

158s often make a knocking noise from the bump stop on the bogie yet they are regarded by some as the greatest unit on earth.

 

[43096]

Yea because the incessant racket from the MK3 corridor connection and squeeky suspension isn't at all irritating...

Ah, Mark 3 gangway noise hyperbole. There must be a lot of people with super sensitive ears on here, because it has never been an issue in the 40+ years I've been travelling on Mark 3s. Perhaps it's because the Mark 3s are so quiet otherwise without the noise you get from engines, banging from the bogies, aircon, see it-say it-sort it announcements and whatever else infects todays' trains.

 

[michael74]

Ah, Mark 3 gangway noise hyperbole. There must be a lot of people with super sensitive ears on here, because it has never been an issue in the 40+ years I've been travelling on Mark 3s. Perhaps it's because the Mark 3s are so quiet otherwise without the noise you get from engines, banging from the bogies, aircon, see it-say it-sort it announcements and whatever else infects todays' trains.

I work them.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Apr 2023 ==

It depends on how they are set up and maintained. If for example you have one presumably formed up on a curve like this one last week, it did squeak. If it’s flat and well oiled, it won’t squeak. Most didn’t last week and the internal doors were fine. And if anything, the creakiest gangways were the more worn out ones couples to the power car. But then again, some on here seem to assume that old = creaky noisy rattling broken and falling apart, yet anything newer is fine including a rather high pitched whine from the Traction Motors.

158s often make a knocking noise from the bump stop on the bogie yet they are regarded by some as the greatest unit on earth.

It does help if the internal doors are working and not kept open with hazard tape

 

[fgwrich]

I work them.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Apr 2023 ==


It does help if the internal doors are working and not kept open with hazard tape

Which comes back to the maintenance issue. If they are maintained properly and not with spanner’s and sticky back hazard tape (eg Laira special), they are fine and rarely that much noise altogether.

 

[irish_rail]

I always found the corridors squeaky when the XC HSTs were maintained at craigentinny, similarly I found the ECML HSTs pretty creeky corridor wise compared with the Western region ones I'm used too. Since the XC stuff moved to Laira I haven't noticed any creakyness between trailers on XC or Castles for that matter.

 

[northernbelle]

Mk3s are generally quiet but they are still generally falling apart. Can't just be Laira - ScotRail is yet to get the planned full complement of HSTs to work - will it ever?

All of this doesn't change the fact there are fundamental design aspects of these trains that have been overtaken by modern requirements or mean their suitability on GWR stopping services isn't quite right - accessibility, traction profile, running cost, interior layout to name a few.

That said, this week's confirmation of a few sets being retained for a little longer is better than short formed or non-existent alternatives.

 

[michael74]

Which comes back to the maintenance issue. If they are maintained properly and not with spanner’s and sticky back hazard tape (eg Laira special), they are fine and rarely that much noise altogether.

Overall its like GWR have given up on them... I worked a set a couple of days in a row and the UAT was out of service all that time, just not good enough really, I appreciate it may have been stabled up overnight at Taunton etc but it's not fair on the customers.

 

[yorksrob]

I like the mk3 squeak, personally.

 

[GoneSouth]

No, in terms of experience I was thinking more that fact there are tables around 4, better disabled access, reservations available, bigger doorways with less of a step, more toilets, a reliable PIS system inside and out, aircon that actually works in the summer etc. This is actually what people care about after reliability of the service. I'm not denying there are some inferior aspects such as the provision for bikes or a large 'general use' area for buggies and the like.

It's the enthusiast lobby that seem to decry the IETs - the truth is most passengers don't actually care about what the train is but more the key features of it. Believe it or not, enthusiast specialisms such as seat hardness is trumped by other factors, many of which the HSTs, these days, fall short on.

On a long distance journey the key ‘feature’ is the seat.

HST is comfortable
IET is uncomfortable

That’s all must care about

I’m trying to think what all the other ‘features’ are… a diesel engine throbbing underneath you for 5 hours, equally poor intrusive lighting on both, equally tiny toilet cubicle, equally dirty windows on both, equally poor luggage provision on both.

Not that much in it for me other than the noise and the uncomfortable seat/ride quality. I’m no enthusiast, I only ride trains because I have to as I don’t have access to a car, if I did then I’d be happy to leave both HSTs and IETs behind for ever on the grounds of convenience, comfort and cost

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Obviously I pointed out their excellent ambiance

Which is subjective so not something the aforementioned guard would necessarily automatically agree with, of course.

 

[GoneSouth]

I like the mk3 squeak, personally.

Yes, it’s one of those comforting lifelong experiences that’s always been there like Hovis bread and Marks and Spencer socks. The world would have been a worse place without all of these things

 

[HamworthyGoods]

On a long distance journey the key ‘feature’ is the seat.

HST is comfortable
IET is uncomfortable

That’s all must care about

Seating is subjective - there are also many who will argue the opposite!

Very similar to the IC70 seat which seems to get a 50:50 love:hate view.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

On a long distance journey the key ‘feature’ is the seat.

HST is comfortable
IET is uncomfortable

That’s all must care about

What a ridiculous comment based solely on your own opinion. That's no more factual than saying dogs are cuter than cats.

 

[GoneSouth]

What a ridiculous comment based solely on your own opinion. That's no more factual than saying dogs are cuter than cats.

No need to be rude just because it’s not YOUR opinion. I do agree about dogs however

 

[RPI]

I remember when the HST'S were refurbished around 2007 with the seats that are currently in them now, everyone hated them then. Truth is, most enthusiasts just don't like change, whatever that may be!

 

[GoneSouth]

Seating is subjective - there are also many who will argue the opposite!

Very similar to the IC70 seat which seems to get a 50:50 love:hate view.

Agree, however I feel some took the comment way too seriously! I have no idea where I would find an IC170, but I do know what feels right to me when I sit in it.

 

[adc82140]

I remember when the HST'S were refurbished around 2007 with the seats that are currently in them now, everyone hated them then. Truth is, most enthusiasts just don't like change, whatever that may be!

I wish there was a like function in this forum.

A good many enthusiasts would love to still have trains with doors that slam, seats with springs in and the light of a fairly dim tungsten bulb. Great memories, but better as a tourist attraction than a means of public transport.

The great travelling public are more keen on a train that gets from A to B on time, with any seat, and these days somewhere to charge your device and decent air con for the hot weather.

 

[RPI]

I wish there was a like function in this forum.

A good many enthusiasts would love to still have trains with doors that slam, seats with springs in and the light of a fairly dim tungsten bulb. Great memories, but better as a tourist attraction than a means of public transport.

The great travelling public are more keen on a train that gets from A to B on time, with any seat, and these days somewhere to charge your device and decent air con for the hot weather.

Absolutely, but a HST doesn't even come into it for me, much rather a 50 and load 10, or a 116 DMU.... but we digress

 

[Vespa]

Quite an impressive length of service for something that was originally designed as a stop gap with. design life of 10 years I believe.

 

[RPI]

Quite an impressive length of service for something that was originally designed as a stop gap with. design life of 10 years I believe.

Absolutely, they also probably saved the railway from continual decline.

 

[43096]

Agree, however I feel some took the comment way too seriously! I have no idea where I would find an IC170, but I do know what feels right to me when I sit in it.

Chiltern's Mark 3 sets still have IC70s, thankfully.

 

[Pete_uk]

I remember when some of the 'Project Rio' sets found their way onto First Great Western and I had one in a mixed set one day. That MK3 just floated over the track.

 

[cactustwirly]

Which is subjective so not something the aforementioned guard would necessarily automatically agree with, of course.

Most people would agree on the ambiance of the HST being better, the Voyagers are very dated and tired and the HSTs have a newer interior regardless of what seats they have etc.

 

[fgwrich]

I remember when some of the 'Project Rio' sets found their way onto First Great Western and I had one in a mixed set one day. That MK3 just floated over the track.

The worst of the bunch was always the East Coast examples. Bad enough for MD David Horne to ask who could supply VTEC with the original suspension design, in a bid to rid themselves of the ridiculously springy Pegasus suspension. Sadly something that only came about during their brief time with EMR - and resulted in quite a lot of left over brand new SKF kit going spare.

 

[michael74]

I wish there was a like function in this forum.

A good many enthusiasts would love to still have trains with doors that slam, seats with springs in and the light of a fairly dim tungsten bulb. Great memories, but better as a tourist attraction than a means of public transport.

The great travelling public are more keen on a train that gets from A to B on time, with any seat, and these days somewhere to charge your device and decent air con for the hot weather.

This..... The only complaints I get is 1. Plugs not working 2. No trolly on Cardiff-Penzance 3. Delays 4. Price of tickets 4. Temperature of carriage.