• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

Joined
25 Jan 2022
Messages
920
Location
Edinburgh
I'm quite happy about the 46/48, because it will give me a more direct link to Newcraighall station (and Musselburgh station). Does anyone know if Lothian are planning on buying more double deckers so they can make the 30 a double decker route?
I'm going to say it here, according to Depot Supervisors in Musselburgh, 841-850 are leaving the fleet in the summer. Along with this news, could this mean that a new decker order is on the way and then giving 1051-1062 to Musselburgh? Please note I would take this with a pinch of salt, although I think it's possible. Apparently the Driver Union isn't happy with them either.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

VioletEclipse

Member
Joined
10 Nov 2018
Messages
726
Location
Dùn Èideann
I'm going to say it here, according to Depot Supervisors in Musselburgh, 841-850 are leaving the fleet in the summer, along with this news, this could mean that a new decker order is on the way and then giving 1051-1062 to Musselburgh? Please note I would take this with a pinch of salt, although I think it's possible. Apparently the Driver Union isn't happy with them either.
They may be a decade older, but I would think that 841-850 are much better suited to ECB services than 1051-1062. If those are being withdrawn, then it's likely that a new order will be placed fairly soon, unless single deckers are to be used on services such as the 19 or 24 again.
 
Joined
25 Jan 2022
Messages
920
Location
Edinburgh
They may be a decade older, but I would think that 841-850 are much better suited to ECB services than 1051-1062. If those are being withdrawn, then it's likely that a new order will be placed fairly soon, unless single deckers are to be used on services such as the 19 or 24 again.
I personally think that the 19 is more suited to singles than a service such as the 1, I know they're from different depots but I think putting 7900's on them (Which have a high standing capacity) would be better. The Granton section does seem busier but with the new changes I would expect usage to skyrocket.
 

stevenedin

Established Member
Joined
26 Jul 2021
Messages
1,204
Location
Edinburgh
I'm going to say it here, according to Depot Supervisors in Musselburgh, 841-850 are leaving the fleet in the summer. Along with this news, could this mean that a new decker order is on the way and then giving 1051-1062 to Musselburgh? Please note I would take this with a pinch of salt, although I think it's possible. Apparently the Driver Union isn't happy with them either.
They would make great school buses and appear immaculate inside so I would imagine that the resale value will be higher than some other buses of the same age.

I’m surprised that the 15 hasn’t been changed to single decker operation. I haven’t seen it that busy. I remember the Sunday service 15A previously using single deckers.

Possibly the 22 could be single decker operation as well since I doubt the route will be that busy. It could possibly use eVoRas.
 

eh1

Member
Joined
27 Jan 2022
Messages
114
Location
Edinburgh
I personally don't understand why they sent the B5LHs to LCB. If you ask me, they're unsuitable for the routes (I know the X18 struggles on them due to 42mph limit). They were perfect for the city work, and I'm sure it wouldn't have hurt to send a few 600s down there instead! Don't think that 1051-1062 are bad buses myself, so not sure why East Coast aren't keen on that batch either.
 

ScotRail158725

Established Member
Joined
27 Nov 2018
Messages
2,189
I personally don't understand why they sent the B5LHs to LCB. If you ask me, they're unsuitable for the routes (I know the X18 struggles on them due to 42mph limit). They were perfect for the city work, and I'm sure it wouldn't have hurt to send a few 600s down there instead! Don't think that 1051-1062 are bad buses myself, so not sure why East Coast aren't keen on that batch either.
Its been said before the hybrids are better because their gearboxes are setup better for long distance work than city work. They should probably have a higher limiter than 42 though

1051-1062 are quite good performance wise a lot better than the vast majority of the older Gemini 3 B5TLs but the problem with them, as mentioned hundreds of times here, is that they’ve got the structural integrity of a £5 note, they rattle and bang on a flat surface let alone when they’re going over Edinburghs enldess amount of potholes. But they probably wouldn’t be too bad at ECB in all honesty id rather see those at ECB than anything else
 

FlybeDash8Q400

Established Member
Joined
26 Jun 2018
Messages
1,748
Location
Edinburgh
I personally think that the 19 is more suited to singles than a service such as the 1, I know they're from different depots but I think putting 7900's on them (Which have a high standing capacity) would be better. The Granton section does seem busier but with the new changes I would expect usage to skyrocket.
I have to completely disagree with you here. You should try the 19 at peak/school hours and you’ll quickly change your mind. It’s often completely full by the end of Boswall Parkway. Similarly in the evening peaks it struggles to accommodate everyone from Queensferry Street. The eastern section is probably the old part where you could ‘get away with it’ but else it really wouldn’t work and would be a disaster.

For a while they had an 04 plate Eclipse doing an 08:15 run from Granton and it was often full by Boswall Loan. In the end they had such a public backlash that they had no choice but to move it onto another route instead.

The 1 would be best being something like every 20 minutes as double decks, but it’s unlikely to happen.
 
Joined
25 Jan 2022
Messages
920
Location
Edinburgh
I have to completely disagree with you here. You should try the 19 at peak/school hours and you’ll quickly change your mind. It’s often completely full by the end of Boswall Parkway. Similarly in the evening peaks it struggles to accommodate everyone from Queensferry Street. The eastern section is probably the old part where you could ‘get away with it’ but else it really wouldn’t work and would be a disaster.

For a while they had an 04 plate Eclipse doing an 08:15 run from Granton and it was often full by Boswall Loan. In the end they had such a public backlash that they had no choice but to move it onto another route instead.

The 1 would be best being something like every 20 minutes as double decks, but it’s unlikely to happen.
To be fair I've not used the route during rush hour, your point could be very valid! I could see it being a hit or miss route, much like the 12.
 

overthewater

Established Member
Joined
16 Apr 2012
Messages
8,197
Going by social media, most of the complaints are from Rosewell passengers, of course this could be resolved by having Transferee ticket at Bonnyrigg, which if timed right would actually work out faster that going all the way around. Only other real complaints are the 22 no longer doing Prince street -- whats wrong with the tram? and 47 isnt going to Granton.
 

stevenedin

Established Member
Joined
26 Jul 2021
Messages
1,204
Location
Edinburgh
Going by social media, most of the complaints are from Rosewell passengers, of course this could be resolved by having Transferee ticket at Bonnyrigg, which if timed right would actually work out faster that going all the way around. Only other real complaints are the 22 no longer doing Prince street -- whats wrong with the tram? and 47 isnt going to Granton.
The Tram is only good if you have a stop nearby but if you live anywhere on the 22 route between Balgreen Road and Broomhouse Drive, the tram is not an option but you do have the 1 going this route even if it is slower.
 

JKP

Member
Joined
3 Jan 2023
Messages
235
Location
SE Scotland
If the tram is going to be used to replace bus services then the over 60s from outside Edinburgh should also be allowed free travel.
 

stevenedin

Established Member
Joined
26 Jul 2021
Messages
1,204
Location
Edinburgh
I think that all routes operating to East Lothian, Midlothian and West Lothian should be operated under the Lothian Country brand and operated as a separate company to Lothian Buses.

They could use Lothian buses depots for specific routes where it is easier but it would make things visually easier to see which buses stay in the city and which don’t (I know people can just read) but it allows them to be run separately and focus better on the needs of these areas rather than combining them with the city services.

This would then allow Lothian City to focus on the needs of Edinburgh.
 

Lothianbus703

Member
Joined
2 Apr 2020
Messages
232
Location
Edinburgh
Were the 04/55 reg B7RLEs withdrawn because of age/"worn out". They were not withdrawn because of emission, all were upgraded to EURO 5 when they became get there greener in 2013?
Or am I just wrong in thinking they are EURO 5?
 
Last edited:

Fleetmaster

Member
Joined
28 Feb 2023
Messages
353
Location
Hounslow
I think that all routes operating to East Lothian, Midlothian and West Lothian should be operated under the Lothian Country brand and operated as a separate company to Lothian Buses.

They could use Lothian buses depots for specific routes where it is easier but it would make things visually easier to see which buses stay in the city and which don’t (I know people can just read) but it allows them to be run separately and focus better on the needs of these areas rather than combining them with the city services.

This would then allow Lothian City to focus on the needs of Edinburgh.
Are you going to include the likes of Penicuik and Mayfield? That could be a sizeable number of green buses running mostly (but not wholly) along contiguous City streets.
 

Theproinsider

Member
Joined
4 Jan 2022
Messages
64
Location
Scotland
I think that all routes operating to East Lothian, Midlothian and West Lothian should be operated under the Lothian Country brand and operated as a separate company to Lothian Buses.

They could use Lothian buses depots for specific routes where it is easier but it would make things visually easier to see which buses stay in the city and which don’t (I know people can just read) but it allows them to be run separately and focus better on the needs of these areas rather than combining them with the city services.

This would then allow Lothian City to focus on the needs of Edinburgh.
Merely forgetting the financial requirements, drivers terms and conditions and integration?
 

Jordan1296

Member
Joined
5 Sep 2020
Messages
68
Location
Aberdeen
Not a major change as such, but one I don’t think has yet been pointed out; the 8 is reduced to every 40 minutes in the evenings and Kings Buildings - City Centre leg is also reduced to every 40 minutes in the evenings.
 

FlybeDash8Q400

Established Member
Joined
26 Jun 2018
Messages
1,748
Location
Edinburgh
Not a major change as such, but one I don’t think has yet been pointed out; the 8 is reduced to every 40 minutes in the evenings and Kings Buildings - City Centre leg is also reduced to every 40 minutes in the evenings.
That’s because the 9 slots in at every 40 minutes to create an every 20 minutes service, so in reality it’s actually an increase in service - at the north end at least. A later journey (as a 9) has been introduced towards Muirhouse too.
 

CN04NRJ

Established Member
Joined
28 Nov 2019
Messages
1,723
Location
UK
Merely forgetting the financial requirements, drivers terms and conditions and integration?

I'm not sure there'll be hundreds of willing volunteers to take a big paycut and worse terms & conditions :lol:

In other news - the 2 is returning to Central and the 12 to Marine.
Also, i'm wondering how many SDs will be required for the 30/38/46/48 with the service change - could we see most or all 7900s gone from Central as all routes can be run with DDs?
 

Bus9120UK

Established Member
Joined
5 Oct 2019
Messages
1,457
Location
Edinburgh
I'm not sure there'll be hundreds of willing volunteers to take a big paycut and worse terms & conditions :lol:

In other news - the 2 is returning to Central and the 12 to Marine.
Also, i'm wondering how many SDs will be required for the 30/38/46/48 with the service change - could we see most or all 7900s gone from Central as all routes can be run with DDs?
The addition of 176-190 & reserved 14-16 will probably be enough for them all. The 46/8 have a PVR of 13 together, the 30 will lose a few, the 45 1(?). The 1 will need an extra 2.
 

stevenedin

Established Member
Joined
26 Jul 2021
Messages
1,204
Location
Edinburgh
I think that all routes operating to East Lothian, Midlothian and West Lothian should be operated under the Lothian Country brand and operated as a separate company to Lothian Buses.

They could use Lothian buses depots for specific routes where it is easier but it would make things visually easier to see which buses stay in the city and which don’t (I know people can just read) but it allows them to be run separately and focus better on the needs of these areas rather than combining them with the city services.

This would then allow Lothian City to focus on the needs of Edinburgh.
I know that it is unlikely to happen but if it did then I put a draft of what could happen on this page https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...speculations-ideas.246674/page-4#post-6199996
 

DunsBus

Established Member
Joined
12 Jan 2013
Messages
1,462
Location
Duns
You have to laugh at all those complaining on LB's Facebook feed about the 4 no longer calling at Bingham roundabout after the end of this month. It will still serve Bingham, just not doing the short double-run to and from the roundabout.

You could under the moaning if the 4 had been removed from there completely, but we're talking about a difference of a few hundred yards here, not a trek all the way to the north end of Duddingston Row.
 

TheEastCoaster

Established Member
Joined
26 Jun 2018
Messages
1,257
You have to laugh at all those complaining on LB's Facebook feed about the 4 no longer calling at Bingham roundabout after the end of this month. It will still serve Bingham, just not doing the short double-run to and from the roundabout.

You could under the moaning if the 4 had been removed from there completely, but we're talking about a difference of a few hundred yards here, not a trek all the way to the north end of Duddingston Row.

I saw that coming a mile away, much like the 4 no longer serving ASDA and the 22 no longer serving Princess street, and before you know it the folk blame the council for these minor changes.

Could of made a bingo game with the cliche complaints!
 

buslad1988

Member
Joined
28 Dec 2018
Messages
366
Could have made a bingo game with the cliche complaints!
May be worth remembering that what may be cliche complaints to us could impact people’s lives greatly.

Every time a route or timetable changes it can affect someone’s daily routine. I myself will now have less direct/timed journey options to/from places of work and leisure.
 

InOban

Established Member
Joined
12 Mar 2017
Messages
4,228
There is a footbridge. A road bridge for buses would be expensive as it has to cross two railway lines.
 

FlybeDash8Q400

Established Member
Joined
26 Jun 2018
Messages
1,748
Location
Edinburgh
There is a footbridge. A road bridge for buses would be expensive as it has to cross two railway lines.
Yes that’s correct. As you’ll probably know the bridge spans two junctions that come off the South Suburban Line so while it is doable, it’s just probably not financially viable. It would be an extremely useful addition though.

I’d have to get the list up again but it was something like 10 services that could serve it, and you could end up with a terminus similar to that of Braehead Shopping Centre out west.
 
Last edited:

DunsBus

Established Member
Joined
12 Jan 2013
Messages
1,462
Location
Duns
Another predictable reaction to the changes appeared in tonight's Edinburgh Evening News, from a Dumbiedykes resident complaining that (yet again) their area has been overlooked.

There's a simple reason as to why no buses serve the Dumbiedykes. It's called money.
 

Top