McGill's Scotland East (Midland Bluebird and Eastern Scottish)

[overthewater]

I'm sorry Ralph but as others have said, Once they found other ways they're not coming back to your buses. It's all very well saying "if people can work round about that for a period of time we will build it back to the type of operation we operate everywhere else" No those passengers are gone. Lothian will now get everyone going in and out of Edinburgh and most likely in Craigshill and Knightsbridge.

Winchburgh isn't completely cut off from Livingston, it still has No7 service From 6am - 10am and from 5pm - 8pm, although WHY the council was paying for a service which operates in competition with 2 commercial routes we will never know.

 

[JKP]

Ultimately I’m glad there not funding private firms, even if that means no buses.

That is very negative given that I assume you have an interest in public transport. May I remind you that bus companies prior to privatisation of the Scottish Bus Group and the Municipalities in the late 1980s were a mixture of state or Council owned and privately owned.

The Transport Act 1985 puts the onus on the local Council to fund socially necessary bus services. Clearly West Lothian do not consider early morning, late evening and Sunday services that are being withdrawn to be necessary. Perhaps there are insufficient numbers travelling to justify retention of these journeys?

 

[stevenedin]

That is very negative given that I assume you have an interest in public transport. May I remind you that bus companies prior to privatisation of the Scottish Bus Group and the Municipalities in the late 1980s were a mixture of state or Council owned and privately owned.

The Transport Act 1985 puts the onus on the local Council to fund socially necessary bus services. Clearly West Lothian do not consider early morning, late evening and Sunday services that are being withdrawn to be necessary. Perhaps there are insufficient numbers travelling to justify retention of these journeys?

Or possibly they don’t have the money. I remember reading about where the tax goes and West Lothian Council is one of those underfunded Councils.

I do feel like McGill’s could have at least kept some Sunday services running and possibly one later bus for each route at say 10pm.

 

[overthewater]

Remember West lothian council are currently trying to re-tender its entire council network which should have been done years ago.. every time over the last 3 years something has cropped up..

 

[PaulMc7]

Remember West lothian council are currently trying to re-tender its entire council network which should have been done years ago.. every time over the last 3 years something has cropped up..

With a funding shortfall of £40 million over the next 5 years, it could definitely be a trimmed down network.

 

[VioletEclipse]

As someone used to Edinburgh buses, only using West Lothian buses infrequently, the general state of buses in West Lothian does feel about a decade behind on many levels. A comprehensive overhaul is probably needed, however I realise that loads of factors mean that it would be very difficult to carry out under the current circumstances.

 

[PaulMc7]

Having had a few minutes to look at a map of Eliburn and Deans South in particular, I can see why the council have left funding for other areas so far. I know people won't like having to walk for a bus but generally the 21, 23, 25 and 26 will all be available to people in those areas depending on which direction they choose to walk with the 21 and 23 in one direction and the 25 and 26 in the other although the 26 would be a little further just like the 21.

 

[stevenedin]

Having had a few minutes to look at a map of Eliburn and Deans South in particular, I can see why the council have left funding for other areas so far. I know people won't like having to walk for a bus but generally the 21, 23, 25 and 26 will all be available to people in those areas depending on which direction they choose to walk with the 21 and 23 in one direction and the 25 and 26 in the other although the 26 would be a little further just like the 21.

The thing is that you are assuming people can walk. Some people may have mobility issues and cannot walk far or are in a wheelchair. It’s fine for people living near Alderstone Road as they can walk to get the 25 but further along towards co-op and depending on where you live in a development it could make the walk very long.

 

[PaulMc7]

The thing is that you are assuming people can walk. Some people may have mobility issues and cannot walk far or are in a wheelchair. It’s fine for people living near Alderstone Road as they can walk to get the 25 but further along towards co-op and depending on where you live in a development it could make the walk very long.

I agree with you on that, especially as someone with less than ideal mobility. It won't suit everyone but it'll be the logic applied by the council. I also think that the 23 extension to Shotts only happened because of SPT contributing some funds too. I'm not familiar with most of the council services so I'm not sure how busy any of them are but a complete rework is probably the best thing.

McGill's are playing a risky game by trying to stabilise and telling people to bear with them but it's the only option for now with the council's funding mess, especially while the council tenders are being looked at. I do wonder what would have happened had First successfully gave the 20, 63 and 68 up when they wanted to get rid of them. It would certainly have given McGill's some extra driver resources to play with.

 

[Baileygirl]

The thing is that you are assuming people can walk. Some people may have mobility issues and cannot walk far or are in a wheelchair. It’s fine for people living near Alderstone Road as they can walk to get the 25 but further along towards co-op and depending on where you live in a development it could make the walk very long.

As mentioned before some parts of Eliburn will have to walk 1.1km to get the 25. The 26 is not much use except for North Eliburn which is nearer the train station.

 

[Ding Ding]

Ultimately I’m glad they're not funding private firms, even if that means no buses.

I completely agree. McGill's bought First Bus's operation after one hopes, carrying out proper due diligence. They must have know the desperate situation they were in, as far as condition of fleet and employee numbers, it couldn't have come as any surprise. They have, since taking over, continued to employ agency staff on enhanced rates compared to the First Bus drivers they inherited. I understand that without these agency drivers the situation would be dire, and cancellations would be even worse, but they are not the long term solution, and neither is subsidies.

When they announced the cuts to services, they cited the main reasons were, driver shortages and a fall in passenger numbers, which is completely understandable, that is indisputable. To now say that they can reinstate the parts that they cut, due to them being jointly subsidized, is akin to blackmailing the councils. I say this because, being given the subsidy, is merely a form of funding a private business. Giving them a subsidy has no affect on either the driver shortage, or passenger numbers, they stay exactly the same. They'll still be stretched for staff, and patronage wont increase, as it's not there to start with, but they've benefitted by getting public money into their coffers by pleading their case.

I would also like to know, how can Lothian Country run early morning and late night services along with Sunday working, without the need for subsidies, but McGill's seemingly cant.

 

[DunsBus]

McGill's are playing a risky game by trying to stabilise and telling people to bear with them but it's the only option for now with the council's funding mess, especially while the council tenders are being looked at.

It is a risky game. Borders Buses did likewise a few years ago when services restarted after the first Covid lockdown. Three years on and most of the Borders still has no bus service after teatime, yet Borders Buses continues to ask passengers to "bear with us" when it's clear that the current service levels are here to stay.

Passengers aren't daft. An operator asking passengers to bear with them is usually the first sign that any cuts being made are likely to be permanent.

 

[Stan Drews]

It is a risky game. Borders Buses did likewise a few years ago when services restarted after the first Covid lockdown. Three years on and most of the Borders still has no bus service after teatime, yet Borders Buses continues to ask passengers to "bear with us" when it's clear that the current service levels are here to stay.

Passengers aren't daft. An operator asking passengers to bear with them is usually the first sign that any cuts being made are likely to be permanent.

It’s quite simple really. If there isn’t sufficient revenue for an operator to run a route profitably in the evening, Sundays, or any other time of the day/week, then it’s unlikely to be provided commercially. The relevant local authority can then take a decision whether to put such a route out to competitive tender, and if they choose not to, then that area won’t have a service. There are endless examples all over the country where this situation exists.

 

[PaulMc7]

It'll be interesting to see how things are over the next couple of weeks with the changes coming into effect on Monday. In an ideal world, a more stable network will bring people onto buses and hopefully the better, warmer weather will lead to more people being out and about too.

 

[stevenedin]

There is a petition up on one of the bus stops in Livingston Centre for the bus network which I saw today.

Sign the Petition

Save our local Bus service

www.change.org

As of Tuesday 28th of March, McGills, Lothian County,West Lothian Council, Transport Scotland and the Scottish Government have decided to cut our bus service leaving communities cut off and workers such as NHS, Retail etc and the Elderly without Standard bus service. These actions are not acceptable and West Lothian is not happy with these changes. We are fed up of hearing the sham excuse of a global shortage of drivers when that hasn’t been the case for the last four years. All we want is a reliable service and for the council to make sure that these companies cannot get away with pulling this again, so please share with anyone, even if you drive. We want to take this to our Scottish government to not just fix our area but the whole of Scotland as this is a devolved matter and our council is not listening to the cries of the people.

 

[JKP]

There is a petition up on one of the bus stops in Livingston Centre for the bus network which I saw today.

I'm not sure that whoever set this petition up has all of the facts to hand, unless there really is no driver shortage in West Lothian.

In my experience, petitions never really work as they are generally signed by people who do not uses buses. Indeed the petitioner is asking car drivers to sign. I suspect that this has been set up by a Labour supporter who wants local transport nationalised, which as is known by us with long memories would solve nothing.

 

[Ding Ding]

I'm not sure that whoever set this petition up has all of the facts to hand, unless there really is no driver shortage in West Lothian.

In my experience, petitions never really work as they are generally signed by people who do not uses buses. Indeed the petitioner is asking car drivers to sign. I suspect that this has been set up by a Labour supporter who wants local transport nationalised, which as is known by us with long memories would solve nothing.

I have first hand experience of petitions being set up and failing . I worked for E M Horsburgh, who ran the X5 from Fauldhouse to Regent Road Edinburgh, once in the morning, and a return journey in the evening. It was a subsidized route, and the council decided to withdraw the subsidy due to it not being used by enough people. When broken down into subsidy cost, divided by the amount of passengers using the service, it was costing them a fortune. The number of passengers on a daily basis, was no more than 25, and I'm being more than generous with that figure.

When it was found that it was being withdrawn, a petition was set up by someone, and guess what? It was signed by over 100 people who said it was needed and well used.

Result
The council have the daily figures, and something doesn't quite add up.
Service withdrawn never to be seen again.

If you set up a petition, then you really must have the figures to back it up, not just gather as many signatures as you can get, otherwise it's doomed to fail.

 

[PaulMc7]

I have first hand experience of petitions being set up and failing . I worked for E M Horsburgh, who ran the X5 from Fauldhouse to Regent Road Edinburgh, once in the morning, and a return journey in the evening. It was a subsidized route, and the council decided to withdraw the subsidy due to it not being used by enough people. When broken down into subsidy cost, divided by the amount of passengers using the service, it was costing them a fortune. The number of passengers on a daily basis, was no more than 25, and I'm being more than generous with that figure.

When it was found that it was being withdrawn, a petition was set up by someone, and guess what? It was signed by over 100 people who said it was needed and well used.

Result
The council have the daily figures, and something doesn't quite add up.
Service withdrawn never to be seen again.

If you set up a petition, then you really must have the figures to back it up, not just gather as many signatures as you can get, otherwise it's doomed to fail.

I genuinely can't recall a time from my knowledge where a petition has achieved anything when it comes to bus cuts. Prior to Covid when buses were cheaper to run, I'd say there was a 1% chance of a petition achieving anything. Nowadays, it's most certainly 0%. From my online interactions with people in West Lothian, a lot of them tend to not realise that half full buses could still be loss making now. It's a grim time but a lot of it is out of any operator's control.

 

[christopherrfc]

YX62 BCK in the new Eastern Scottish livery.

YX62 BCK Easter Scottish. (9N9A8283)

Operated by McGill's. Previously owned by RATP London United ADE40448

www.flickr.com

 

[Bus9120UK]

YX62 BCK in the new Eastern Scottish livery.

In my opinion the green is way too saturated along what is a fairly dull cream.

 

[PaulMc7]

YX62 BCK in the new Eastern Scottish livery.

It looks okay but I'd like to see it from different angles to get the full look of it. I think it's certainly a lot better as a livery though as it's not as close to Lothian's as the original.

 

[stevenedin]

Looking forward to seeing buses in the correct livery. There are too many buses in the wrong livery and it’s an eyesore.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Looking forward to seeing buses in the correct livery. There are too many buses in the wrong livery and it’s an eyesore.

Totally. It’s been a mess since the First days. Barbie, two tone blue, Olympia, urban. Now add the McGills standard livery, the new Eastern Scottish/Midland livery, Xplore Dundee liveries and also the branded routes.

So confusing

 

[Delenn]

Alex Hornby will certainly sort that out. I'm very interested to know (and never will, obviously) what promises he has from them re: funding, for all the stuff he does so well. Also, is Ralph stepping back? Can't see Alex wanting somebody sitting on his shoulder all the time. Interesting times.

 

[WibbleWobble]

YX62 BCK in the new Eastern Scottish livery.

Reminds me of the later Norfolk Green livery.

 

[JurassicMan]

No cancellations today on McGills routes according to website, if this is correct and it can be continued then it has to be viewed as making the correct business decision especially in West Lothian. It will be up to others to solve the conundrum of Sunday,early morning and evening services for the travelling public and that for McGills staff will be a huge relief to not carry the can for others failures in providing services.

 

[stevenedin]

No cancellations today on McGills routes according to website, if this is correct and it can be continued then it has to be viewed as making the correct business decision especially in West Lothian. It will be up to others to solve the conundrum of Sunday,early morning and evening services for the travelling public and that for McGills staff will be a huge relief to not carry the can for others failures in providing services.

I’m hoping the same and nice to see that both ex Glasgow 53 reg B7TLs are back out and about on the 25. The whole route seems to be double decker operated now.

 

[ScotRail158725]

I’m hoping the same and nice to see that both ex Glasgow 53 reg B7TLs are back out and about on the 25. The whole route seems to be double decker operated now.

the 2 53 plates are SORNd, its the 2 ex London enviros tracking on the 25

 

[stevenedin]

the 2 53 plates are SORNd, its the 2 ex London enviros tracking on the 25

Makes sense. It’ll be good to see the new livery starting to appear on West Lothian. I think that Eastern Scottish need to build back trust. If they can run a reliable service and create a well known image, then they may be able to recover from the mess.

I think it was probably a clever move to only introduce the new livery today so that it appears like they are trying to improve things. The vast majority of the public who do t really care about details will still think that the service was still run by First due to the livery.

 

[delt1c]

Saw the new liveried Enviro 400 in Livingston this morning and thought it looked good. (Photo below)