£85m train link between Manchester Piccadilly and Victoria stations approved

[DiscoSteve]

There would be two singled stretches on the Guide Bridge-Stockport-Airport path

Singled most of the way between Guide Bridge and Heaton Moor
Singled between Cheadle Heath and Cheadle.

Driver seems to have been motorway bridges - over the M60 at Denton and over Roscoes Roundabout in Cheadle - so not solvable (cheaply)

 

[Invincibles]

I think its a good idea, and will avoid some of the confusion at the moment (e.g. if you miss an Airport train on 13, do you then drag your suitcases over to the main platforms for the next train in seven minutes, or do you just wait on 13 for quater of an hour for the one after?).

It'd also make platform 13 a lot easier. At the moment you get different crowds on there, waiting for the Norwich/ Airport/ Scarborough (etc) service on a narrow platform. Your solution would mean 95% of people on 13 would just jump on the first service (since they all run to the Airport, none are overtaken), which would avoid congestion on the platform. The only exception being the passengers for Burnage (etc), which brings me on to...

That is what I saw as the key point, less congestion has to be a good thing.

It would mean updating the bridge to make it luggage friendly (actually I would do more than that to make travellators going outwards and steps/escalators going inwards between the Y that the bridge forms) But with travellators in the main shed already the result would be a pretty pleasing station.

Which then moves on to the other part where you steal the pub train from Greenfield to Marsden

Again, good idea. I'm in favour of doing this kind of thing on lines where you have a "long distance" service but with several "local" platforms. Another example would be the stations from Staleybridge to Huddersfield. Instead of one slow Pacer/150 (stopping at Greenfield etc, and eating up paths) you could run more TPE services on this route, but each stopping at one of the intermediate stations. Same with stations between Leeds and York (etc).

Of course there will be *some* demand from East Didsbury to Gatley (or from Garforth to East Garforth on the York line), but I think that our fixed resources need to be targetted at the largest demands (so everywhere gets a service to the "big" stations, but there's not necessarily a service linking each pair of "local" stations).

It was loosely based on the WCML thinking, but it seems to work, and there would still be an hourly all stops for the people who really wanted to do the short hops.

Hmm... If the Scarborough/Leeds - Liverpool service is being diverted via Victoria then I can see the logic in the Norwich/Nottingham - Liverpool service doing that too. All "fast" Manchester - Liverpool trains serve the same Mancunian station. BUT, you'd then get different stations for the two "fast" Manchester - Sheffield services each hour. I'm not sure what the best way round this is. I don't know whether cutting the Liverpool - Norwich service at Manchester would help (replaced by extending the Hull - Manchester TPE service to Liverpool in its place) - the Liverpool - Norwich route is a bit of a sacred cow to some... no easy answer there.

Well you would have Manchester Aiport - Piccadilly - Oxford Road - Warrington - Liverpool South Parkway - Liverpool Lime Street running twice hourly (ideally) so there would be no loss of fast trains from Manchester Piccadilly to Liverpool.

Manchester Airport - Cleethorpes

I imagine this one is particularly important politically and would have to remain so yes one train to the airport would run from the main shed, but I would try to get it on 10 or 11 so people could decide to use it instead of getting on the travelator up to 13/14.

This would not alter the dynamic of Airport = P13 though as everyone wanting the airport would still naturally migrate to 13, only stopping on 10/11 when the TPE was there (it has a turn around time such that the next service was certainly on 13 if the TPE unit was not in the platform). Maybe even put an arrow that illuminated when the next train was the Cleethorpes - MIA to tell people before they set off for 13.

 

[Whistler40145]

Does any part of the trackbed exist on the former line via Chorlton cum Hardy to Gorton?

 

[Lampshade]

Does any part of the trackbed exist on the former line via Chorlton cum Hardy to Gorton?

Some of it, although there's a Sainsbury's in the way in Fallowfield.

 

[142094]

Does any part of the trackbed exist on the former line via Chorlton cum Hardy to Gorton?

If it is the bit I'm thinking about, then part has been redeveloped. At Fallowfield the old station is now a Sainsbury's and car park.

 

[Whistler40145]

Am I right thinking the Trafford end is now the new Metrolink line?

 

[WatcherZero]

Am I right thinking the Trafford end is now the new Metrolink line?

http://www.metrolink.co.uk/pdf/futu...er-line/trafford-bar-to-st-werburghs-road.pdf

http://www.metrolink.co.uk/pdf/futu...r-line/st-werburghs-road-to-east-didsbury.pdf

 

[Invincibles]

Does any part of the trackbed exist on the former line via Chorlton cum Hardy to Gorton?

No options coming in that way now, various developments on the trackbed and also the Manchester end is blocked by the road to Old Trafford and Trafford Park (Bypass section of the Chester Road) that Metrolink dives under but heavy rail could not.

As far as I can tell the only extra capacity running in to Manchester is on the lines into Victoria where East facing bays could be provided with some moving of metrolink, or metrolink crossing heavy rail.

The other option at Victoria is to have the Leeds/Rochdale trains use new platforms the other side of the bridge, but they would be a long way from the station building so not perfect (Although they would be on the right side of the formation)

1 and 2 would then serve Rose Hill, New Mills, etc.

 

[Whistler40145]

Following Electrification of
Blackpool North-Preston-Deansgate/Manchester Victoria
Liverpool-Earlestown-Ordsall Lane

I would move those services that don't serve Manchester Airport from Manchester Piccadilly to Manchester Victoria.

All TransPennine Express services from Liverpool to Leeds etc divert via Newton-le-Willows & Manchester Victoria

Liverpool-Norwich divert via Newton-le-Willows, Manchester Victoria & Ashburys or Stockport

Replace current TPE & EMT services from Liverpool via Warrington Central with a Liverpool Lime Street-Manchester Airport. Run alternate Limited Stop & All-Stations service.

Current Liverpool-Manchester Airport service via Newton-le-Willows, join with service from Blackpool North @ Manchester Piccadilly

Blackpool North-Crewe via Manchester Airport or Stockport

Scrap current Crewe-Deansgate & run the services from Liverpool/Blackpool in those paths.

Liverpool-Cleethorpes only to run from Sheffield.

Alternate Manchester Piccadilly-Sheffield via Ashburys or Stockport.

Create a new TPE Manchester Piccadilly-Leeds service via Huddersfield.

Manchester Piccadilly-Chester via Warrington divert to Manchester Victoria & only run to Warrington with a change of train for Chester.

Intoduce a Liverpool-Euston via Manchester Piccadilly & Stoke, Liverpool-Euston via Warrington. Blackpool North/Preston-Euston via Bolton, alternating via Manchester Airport or Stoke. Manchester Piccadilly-Birmingham NS via Manchester Airport. All using Pendolinos or Desiros.

Any constructive comments would be appreciated.

 

[northwichcat]

All TransPennine Express services from Liverpool to Leeds etc divert via Newton-le-Willows & Manchester Victoria

Liverpool-Norwich divert via Newton-le-Willows, Manchester Victoria & Ashburys or Stockport

Replace current TPE & EMT services from Liverpool via Warrington Central with a Liverpool Lime Street-Manchester Airport. Run alternate Limited Stop & All-Stations service.

I don't get the point of these changes. If anything it seems worst than keeping them as is.

The electrification proposals were for:
Victoria-Lime Street via Newton-le-Willows 2tph EMU
Airport-Lime Street via Newton-le-Willows 1tph EMU
Scarborough-Lime Street via Warrington 1tph DMU
Norwich-Lime Street via Warrington 1tph DMU
Oxford Road-Lime Street via Warrington 2tph DMU

Your proposals seem to be:
The electrification proposals were for:
Victoria-Lime Street via Newton-le-Willows 2tph EMU
Airport-Lime Street via Warrington 2tph DMU
Scarborough-Lime Street via Newton-le-Willows 1tph DMU
Norwich-Lime Street via Newton-le-Willows 1tph DMU
Oxford Road-Lime Street via Warrington 2tph DMU

So you'll have less trains using the new wires, which will reduce the benefit of the electrification scheme.

Scrap current Crewe-Deansgate

What Crewe-Deansgate service? Except for a few peak time services all Crewe services terminate at platforms 1-12 at Piccadilly.

Liverpool-Cleethorpes only to run from Sheffield.

Alternate Manchester Piccadilly-Sheffield via Ashburys or Stockport.

What benefit would these have? People use the direct link between Doncaster and Manchester and many Sheffield passengers board and alight at Stockport.

Manchester Piccadilly-Chester via Warrington divert to Manchester Victoria & only run to Warrington with a change of train for Chester.

That's been suggested before and two Cheshire councils plus the Welsh Assembly were strongly against such a change.

Intoduce a Liverpool-Euston via Manchester Piccadilly & Stoke, Liverpool-Euston via Warrington. Blackpool North/Preston-Euston via Bolton, alternating via Manchester Airport or Stoke. Manchester Piccadilly-Birmingham NS via Manchester Airport. All using Pendolinos or Desiros.

A lot of those 'direct' services would be 30+ minutes slower than changing. Plus where are all the WCML paths going to come from? The WCML is almost full - there's only capacity for one extra service per hour to either Liverpool or Preston and beyond.

 

[Whistler40145]

My Lime Street-Airport service was via Earlestown & not Warrington by EMU, joining & Piccadilly with the Blackpool service with some trains extending to Crewe.

What is now the service to Chester via Warrington could run from Piccadilly or Victoria & would be diverted to Crewe & an EMU, connection forward to Chester by DMU.

As for the Virgin Services, they wouldn't be new services, but amendments to the timetabled services, e.g. several Liverpool-Euston services per day to go via Warrington or Manchester/Stoke, especially on Sundays. Even Manchester Piccadilly/Victoria-Euston via Warrington BQ on Sundays or Blackpool/Preston-Euston via Eccles/Bolton/Stockport & Wilmslow or Stoke.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Following Electrification of
Blackpool North-Preston-Deansgate/Manchester Victoria
Liverpool-Earlestown-Ordsall Lane

I would move those services that don't serve Manchester Airport from Manchester Piccadilly to Manchester Victoria.

All TransPennine Express services from Liverpool to Leeds etc divert via Newton-le-Willows & Manchester Victoria

Liverpool-Norwich divert via Newton-le-Willows, Manchester Victoria & Ashburys or Stockport

Replace current TPE & EMT services from Liverpool via Warrington Central with a Liverpool Lime Street-Manchester Airport. Run alternate Limited Stop & All-Stations service.

Current Liverpool-Manchester Airport service via Newton-le-Willows, join with service from Blackpool North @ Manchester Piccadilly

Blackpool North-Crewe via Manchester Airport or Stockport

Scrap current Crewe-Deansgate & run the services from Liverpool/Blackpool in those paths.

Liverpool-Cleethorpes only to run from Sheffield.

Alternate Manchester Piccadilly-Sheffield via Ashburys or Stockport.

Create a new TPE Manchester Piccadilly-Leeds service via Huddersfield.

Manchester Piccadilly-Chester via Warrington divert to Manchester Victoria & only run to Warrington with a change of train for Chester.

Intoduce a Liverpool-Euston via Manchester Piccadilly & Stoke, Liverpool-Euston via Warrington. Blackpool North/Preston-Euston via Bolton, alternating via Manchester Airport or Stoke. Manchester Piccadilly-Birmingham NS via Manchester Airport. All using Pendolinos or Desiros.

Any constructive comments would be appreciated.

there is no liverpool cleethorpes service. its MIA cleethorpes. And what about the hundredds of people who i always see from grimsby scunthorpe doncaster meadowhall who catch the train to manchester or the airport. Just ask them to change with all their luggae?

How do we re route norwich liverpool into victoria, it then has to go to stockport. So you are suggesting we take it via newton le willows into victoria, reverse over new curve into piccadilly then off to sheffield? sounds pointless and inpractical

 

[Whistler40145]

No, the Liverpool-Norwich would either go via Phillips Park, Ashburys & New Mills or via Ashton Moss North Jn & Denton to Stockport.

 

[tbtc]

That's been suggested before and two Cheshire councils plus the Welsh Assembly were strongly against such a change

I wonder whether the new chord (allowing four trains an hour from Victoria to the Airport plus fast services from Victoria to Yorkshire/ North East) would mean less opposition?

Even potential for direct Summer trains from Yorkshire to the North Wales Coast (since Victoria would be easier to arrange "through" workings at than the congested Piccadilly)? Or maybe extend the Hull - Manchester service to Chester? (taking pressure off the busiest part of the Llandudno route)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

No, the Liverpool-Norwich would either go via Phillips Park, Ashburys & New Mills or via Ashton Moss North Jn & Denton to Stockport.

This means one train an hour from Sheffield to Victoria and one an hour to Piccadilly. That kind of arrangement works okay w hen both stations have a frequent service (e.g. Brighton has trains to both Victoria and London Bridge)

Unavoidable sometimes, sure, but would confuse passengers

 

[northwichcat]

I wonder whether the new chord (allowing four trains an hour from Victoria to the Airport plus fast services from Victoria to Yorkshire/ North East) would mean less opposition?

I'm not sure. I think the Welsh Assembly want a frequent Airport service. Approaching from the West the new chord wouldn't make it easy to do Eccles-Victoria-Piccadilly-Airport.

Also once Victoria-Lime Street becomes half-hourly it would become even less beneficial for the North Wales service to be diverted, as it would leave Earlestown and Newton-le-Willows with 2x Piccadillys and 2xVictorias an hour without any other changes.

Newton-le-Willows also makes a good interchange for passengers travelling between Victoria and North Wales with being able to alight the train and then board the connection from the same platform.

This means one train an hour from Sheffield to Victoria and one an hour to Piccadilly. That kind of arrangement works okay w hen both stations have a frequent service (e.g. Brighton has trains to both Victoria and London Bridge)

Yes that's exactly the point with most services. People certainly won't mind having a Victoria service as well as a Piccadilly service but replacing a Piccadilly service with a Victoria service won't go down well on most lines.

 

[ukrob]

My Lime Street-Airport service was via Earlestown & not Warrington by EMU, joining & Piccadilly with the Blackpool service with some trains extending to Crewe.

What is now the service to Chester via Warrington could run from Piccadilly or Victoria & would be diverted to Crewe & an EMU, connection forward to Chester by DMU.

As for the Virgin Services, they wouldn't be new services, but amendments to the timetabled services, e.g. several Liverpool-Euston services per day to go via Warrington or Manchester/Stoke, especially on Sundays. Even Manchester Piccadilly/Victoria-Euston via Warrington BQ on Sundays or Blackpool/Preston-Euston via Eccles/Bolton/Stockport & Wilmslow or Stoke.

Splitting and joining on through platforms at Piccadilly is just asking for trouble.

Why do you want to start re-routing Virgin services on Sundays? I can't see any practical reason or benefits at all.

 

[northwichcat]

My Lime Street-Airport service was via Earlestown & not Warrington by EMU, joining & Piccadilly with the Blackpool service with some trains extending to Crewe.

Oh I see you had the existing one via Newton plus Airport services via Warrington.

I think you've overestimated how many stoppers and expresses can run on the double section of line between Manchester and Newton - you've got 4-5 expresses per hour (assuming Scotland is 2 hourly) as well as the two stoppers which would operate. It would require tight timetabling to get 3 expresses and 2 stoppers in.

You've also ignored the fact that Warrington is a large town in need of good long distance routes.

 

[Invincibles]

What actually goes through 13/14 at the moment?

MIA - Blackpool
MIA - Scotland/Cumbria
MIA - Liverpool via Chat Moss
MIA - Southport via Wigan

Hazel Grove - Preston/Blackpool

Norwich - Liverpool
Scarborough - Liverpool

Manchester Piccadilly - North Wales


So I would split Hazel Grove - Preston into Hazel Grove shuttle from the main shed and Victoria to Preston

Norwich - Liverpool goes via Victoria, but with an additional Manchester Piccadilly - Stockport - East Midlands train sought.

Scarborough - Liverpool is now via Victoria, does not see Manchester Piccadilly.

Manchester Piccadilly - North Wales, starts at the airport.

After that there should now be 3 paths through 13/14 which will be filled by the transpennine trains.

With nothing now crossing the throat is there room for 1 more train through 13/14 to provide a second Liverpool express via Warrington?

Target 13/14

Blackpool - MIA EMU (Chat Moss)
Scotland - MIA EMU (Chat Moss)
Southport - MIA DMU (Bolton)
Liverpool - MIA DMU (Warrington)
Liverpool - MIA DMU (Warrington)
Newcastle - MIA DMU (Victoria)
Middlesbrough - MIA DMU (Victoria)
Hull - MIA DMU (Victoria)
North Wales - MIA DMU (Chat Moss)

Target Manchester Victoria

MCV - Blackpool DMU (stopper, Bolton)
MCV - Preston DMU (semi fast, Bolton - not Blackrod or Adlington)
MCV - Wigan Wallgate/Southport (stopper, Walkden)
MCV - Clitheroe (stopper, Bolton)
Norwich - Liverpool (fast, Chat Moss)
Scarborough - Liverpool (fast, Chat Moss)
MCV - Liverpool (semi fast, Chat Moss)
MCV - Liverpool (stopper, Chat Moss)

Target Chat Moss

MIA - Scotland EMU
MIA - Blackpool EMU
MCV - Liverpool (semi fast) EMU
MCV - Liverpool (stopper) EMU
Scarborough - Liverpool (fast) DMU
Norwich - Liverpool (fast) DMU

I do not know if more trains from Victoria to Liverpool can be fit in, but if possible then more EMUs here would be good.

The Transpennine trains are diesels under the wires, but there is very little that can be done with those two because of the distance that are travelled.

Longer Term Objectives

Open the curve from Victoria into Piccadily to allow the Preston/Blackpool/Blackburn/Wigan etc to terminate at Piccadilly in platforms -1 to 4 (two new bays -1 and 0)

Chord to take trains from Belle Vue onto the Denton - Stockport line and then move Hazel Grove trains to this route (creating 3 paths along the main stretch into Piccadilly I suppose)

Fly over from Belle Vue line over the East Manchester line to drop down the other side of Ashburys and into Victoria. This will speed the Liverpool - Norwich up through this section and allow some trains to be sent to Victoria instead.

Additional East facing platforms at Victoria

More platforms at Salford Central to allow splitting and joining of units off the main running lines (For example trains from Rochdale - Wigan to pick up carriages at Salford Central, splitting the commuter loading between the two stations and hopefully helping people to get seats)

Better shuttle service between Horwich Parkway/Bolton and Manchester Victoria, taking advantage of the wires on that section when up.

Creation of Victoria/Salford Central as the major commuting point for Bolton and stations to Preston, taking pressure off the longer distance services now routed by Chat Moss

 

[Whistler40145]

With regards the Hazel Grove service, isn't this service worked by an EMU?

Further to the chord idea @ Belle Vue, then why not go one step further & double the track from Heaton Norris Jn to Denton, thus enabling extra paths for passenger & freight. Create a new double track spur from Guide Bridge North Jn-Guide Bridge East Jn

Also, electrify the following, Manchester Victoria-Stalybridge, Manchester Victoria-Ashburys via Philips Park (both spurs), Ashton Moss North Jn-Denton Jn, Stalybridge-Guide Bridge-Denton Jn-Heaton Norris Jn. Guide Bridge North Jn-Guide Bridge East Jn

Further plan to electrify Ashburys-Sheffield/Rose Hill Marple, Guide Bridge-Romiley, Hazel Grove-New Mills South Jn, Hazel Grove-Buxton, Guide Bridge North-Guide Bridge East Jn

From the above expansion to the electrified lines, some alternate services could be introduced, e.g. Glossop-Stockport, Rose Hill Marple-Stockport-Hazel Grove-Buxton, Stalybridge-Glossop/Rose Hill Marple?

 

[185]

Don't know whether it's been mentioned, but the new curved viaduct will chop the Museum of Science and Industry's short Liverpool Road railway line in half.

 

[Whistler40145]

Whoops!
Maybe a tighter curved viaduct could be built nearer to Ordsall Lane Jn?

Network Rail could pursue the following option, as you know, coming from Deansgate, the line to Ordsall Lane goes off to the right, with the viaduct curving away towards Ordsall Lane Jn, but not much good without realignment, so why not realign the line between Castlefield & Ordsall Lane Jn & Salford & Ordsall Lane Jn, so instead of a spur off to the right, thus effecting the Museum, why not have a curved viaduct going further to the left of the present one, then curving back around to the right towards Ordsall Lane Jn with a flyover over the present line from Liverpool/Bolton?

Or a new line through Trafford Park towards Weaste & joining the Chat Moss line?

 

[tbtc]

With regards the Hazel Grove service, isn't this service worked by an EMU?

19:22 Manchester Piccadilly - Hazel Grove is the only scheduled EMU service on the section from Stockport to Hazel Grove.

What a waste of an electrified line.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

19:22 Manchester Piccadilly - Hazel Grove is the only scheduled EMU service on the section from Stockport to Hazel Grove.

What a waste of an electrified line.

but in fairness running a MAN-HAZ shuttle all day using a 70% empty 323 is a waste of a unit (but an easy job if your the guard )

 

[tbtc]

but in fairness running a MAN-HAZ shuttle all day using a 70% empty 323 is a waste of a unit (but an easy job if your the guard )

Well, they could run the Buxton DMU through to Preston/ Blackpool again, and replace the Hazel Grove - Preston service with an EMU as far as Piccadilly.

Anything's got to be nicer for you than a crowded Pacer?

 

[Whistler40145]

tbtc, I hope you mean until Blackpool-Preston-Manchester is electrified?

 

[Whistler40145]

I would build a new junction, possibly Ordsall Lane East Jn on the viaduct nearer to Salford, realign the line from Castlefield, build Ordsall Lane South Jn & install a new line & bridge to join at Ordsall Lane East Jn

 

[northwichcat]

So I would split Hazel Grove - Preston into Hazel Grove shuttle from the main shed and Victoria to Preston

Norwich - Liverpool goes via Victoria, but with an additional Manchester Piccadilly - Stockport - East Midlands train sought.

I think you're ignoring the South Manchester to Liverpool and Preston markets. From my experience there's more people who use EMT's Liverpool-Norwich service between Stockport and Liverpool than use the Victoria-Liverpool service between Victoria and Liverpool.

Stockport has already lost it's regular direct Blackpool service and all that does is make more people change at larger stations in Manchester, which can put people off using the train if they aren't that physically fit or take luggage with them.

MCV - Liverpool (semi fast) EMU
MCV - Liverpool (stopper) EMU

How would that work?

Currently there's two stoppers (all stops) between Lime Street and Earlestown, with one of those extending to Victoria and Stalybridge. GMPTE want the other to be sent to Victoria later this year, meaning they'll be two stoppers to be convert to EMU in a few years.

Are you proposing the second stopper misses out Eccles and Patricroft, leaving those stations with an hourly service and calls at all other stations?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

but in fairness running a MAN-HAZ shuttle all day using a 70% empty 323 is a waste of a unit (but an easy job if your the guard )

So is the Alderley Edge service.

I would have thought your job as a guard would be easiest if it was a 153 on a service like that so you've got less far to walk back after checking tickets.

 

[Whistler40145]

Do many passengers use the Manchester Airport-Glasgow/Edinburgh to travel between major stations & not travel throughout?

If it is the case that they only use it e.g. Airport-Piccadilly, Piccadilly-Bolton/Preston why not start it at Victoria?

 

[Multiple Unit]

I thoght the Idear of the Metro Link and all those Buses was to Link the two Sations as well as the City Centre.

 

[Invincibles]

I think you're ignoring the South Manchester to Liverpool and Preston markets. From my experience there's more people who use EMT's Liverpool-Norwich service between Stockport and Liverpool than use the Victoria-Liverpool service between Victoria and Liverpool.

Stockport has already lost it's regular direct Blackpool service and all that does is make more people change at larger stations in Manchester, which can put people off using the train if they aren't that physically fit or take luggage with them.

The aim eventually is to have trains running from Stockport through Victoria using the Denton line and then through Ashburys, this would then connect the two markets back up.

The Liverpool - Norwich missing Stockport is a bit of an issue admittedly, but I really feel the simplification of the line through 13/14 would benefit more than this loss of service would inconvenience. With the redesign of 13/14 I suggested to make it more accessible for people with luggage I think that actually the result would be better opportunities from Stockport than the loss of 1 direct service.

How would that work?

Currently there's two stoppers (all stops) between Lime Street and Earlestown, with one of those extending to Victoria and Stalybridge. GMPTE want the other to be sent to Victoria later this year, meaning they'll be two stoppers to be convert to EMU in a few years.

Are you proposing the second stopper misses out Eccles and Patricroft, leaving those stations with an hourly service and calls at all other stations?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


So is the Alderley Edge service.

I would have thought your job as a guard would be easiest if it was a 153 on a service like that so you've got less far to walk back after checking tickets.

I am afraid I had no idea what the current service on the line was. Of course if it is possible then stoppers are good.

I actually envisaged the semi fast serving most of the Manchster end but then running fast (ish) from Earlestown to Lime Street with a merseyrail service running as far as Newton-Le-Willows from Lime Street. This would use the paths created when all of the Preston bound services have branched off to go North.

It would reduce the number of trains from some Merseyside stations to MCV but the connection at Newton should be good enough to make up for this.

Do many passengers use the Manchester Airport-Glasgow/Edinburgh to travel between major stations & not travel throughout?

If it is the case that they only use it e.g. Airport-Piccadilly, Piccadilly-Bolton/Preston why not start it at Victoria?

A lot do use the train from the airport. It is a quietish train but there always seem to be Scottish sounding people on it when I have used it (not to say they are going to Scotland mind)