Transpennine Route Upgrade and Electrification updates

[Fazaar1889]

Hello, just found out about this project. May I have a quick summary? From what I understand, it's an electrification project of the Transpennine route. Therefore, trains can run faster and more cheaply. I have a few questions tho.

Why this line?
Up to what speeds will the upgrade allow for?
What else is going on other than electrification and what is the significance of these other parts?

Thanks,

 

[GRALISTAIR]

The Wikipedia article Transpennine Route Upgrade is a good read for details like this.

Hello, just found out about this project. May I have a quick summary? From what I understand, it's an electrification project of the Transpennine route. Therefore, trains can run faster and more cheaply. I have a few questions tho.

Why this line?
Up to what speeds will the upgrade allow for?
What else is going on other than electrification and what is the significance of these other parts?

Thanks,

It gives the stop start history and why.

 

[zwk500]

Why this line?

It connects Manchester and Leeds, two of the UKs biggest cities. It also carries through services to Liverpool, Warrington, Wigan, North Wales, West Yorks towns, Bradford, Hull, York, Darlington, Durham, Newcastle and on to Edinburgh. It is a corridor long overdue for an upgrade. It also carries valuable political points because its not to do with London.

Up to what speeds will the upgrade allow for?

Not sure

What else is going on other than electrification and what is the significance of these other parts?

Various bits of fettling but the main significant section is the 4-tracking of Huddersfiled to Ravensthorpe and the grade separation at Ravensthorpe allowing Leeds-Manchester trains to avoid conflicting with freight.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Does this mean TPE 802s can run on electric from York to Newcastle with no restrictions?
When will the same apply to Newcastle-Edinburgh?

 

[zwk500]

Does this mean TPE 802s can run on electric from York to Newcastle with no restrictions?
When will the same apply to Newcastle-Edinburgh?

That's part of a separate ECML Power Supply Upgrade, AIUI. Work on that is already in progress.

 

[modernrail]

Two videos that I was offered after watching the Lady Anne footbridge video

Stalybridge Week 3
(sorry if this has been posted before, I don't think it has)

White Rose station construction

I really don’t get the point of the White Rose station. It looks to be so far from anywhere useful. Can think of loads of more urgent locations for stations in West Yorkshire.

 

[xotGD]

I really don’t get the point of the White Rose station. It looks to be so far from anywhere useful. Can think of loads of more urgent locations for stations in West Yorkshire.

It serves the business park. But a fair hike from the shops.

I stopped working at the business park last year, so it has come too late to benefit me.

 

[Fazaar1889]

The Wikipedia article Transpennine Route Upgrade is a good read for details like this.

Just read it. Very useful thanks. Where are we right now in the process?

It connects Manchester and Leeds, two of the UKs biggest cities. It also carries through services to Liverpool, Warrington, Wigan, North Wales, West Yorks towns, Bradford, Hull, York, Darlington, Durham, Newcastle and on to Edinburgh. It is a corridor long overdue for an upgrade. It also carries valuable political points because its not to do with London.

Not sure

Various bits of fettling but the main significant section is the 4-tracking of Huddersfiled to Ravensthorpe and the grade separation at Ravensthorpe allowing Leeds-Manchester trains to avoid conflicting with freight.

Thanks

 

[sjm77]

It connects Manchester and Leeds, two of the UKs biggest cities. It also carries through services to Liverpool, Warrington, Wigan, North Wales, West Yorks towns, Bradford, Hull, York, Darlington, Durham, Newcastle and on to Edinburgh. It is a corridor long overdue for an upgrade. It also carries valuable political points because its not to do with London.

I would also add that it passes through several marginal constituencies such as Dewsbury and Colne Valley

 

[snowball]

That's part of a separate ECML Power Supply Upgrade, AIUI. Work on that is already in progress.

But what about the two Christmases of overhead line tie-in works at Colton? Have they been done earlier than planned? Or are they still needed before an electric train can do Church Fenton to York?

 

[zwk500]

But what about the two Christmases of overhead line tie-in works at Colton? Have they been done earlier than planned? Or are they still needed before an electric train can do Church Fenton to York?

This is the problem with the quote system on the boards - there is a PSU from Newcastle to Edinburgh, which may extend south (I can't remember the boundaries) but is NOT part of the TRU. That's in progress but not completed.

Separately, as part of TRU, Church Fenton to Colton Jn has been Electrified. The Tie-in works are scheduled for this but AIUI have not yet been done. Somebody with more current operational knowledge than I have will need to confirm where TPE bi-modes are switching from Diesel to Electric.

 

[59CosG95]

This is the problem with the quote system on the boards - there is a PSU from Newcastle to Edinburgh, which may extend south (I can't remember the boundaries) but is NOT part of the TRU. That's in progress but not completed.

Separately, as part of TRU, Church Fenton to Colton Jn has been Electrified. The Tie-in works are scheduled for this but AIUI have not yet been done. Somebody with more current operational knowledge than I have will need to confirm where TPE bi-modes are switching from Diesel to Electric.

ECPSU 2 does in fact start at Bawtry, south of Doncaster. New Feeder Stations have already gone online to replace the existing ones at:

• York (Skelton Jn area);
• Hutton Bonville (between Northallerton & Darlington);
• Durham (south of the station); and
• Benton (between Heaton Depot and Cramlington).

IIRC TPE have had to change between electric and diesel between Morpeth (nearest TSC is Stannington MPTSC) and Innerwick FS (near Torness). They've also had to do it somewhere between York and Newcastle as well on Sundays only, and some LNER services have also had to go off the juice between Morpeth and Innerwick for the same reason on Sundays.

There is also another conventional feeder outstanding at Ulgham Crossing, various TSCs outstanding, and the two Static Frequency Converter Feeder Stations at Hambleton Jn (due to go live this summer) and Marshall Meadows (which is still a work in progress AIUI).



All of this, with the exception of Hambleton Jn SFC + FS, is immaterial to the ability of trains to use the juice between York & Church Fenton, as only Hambleton & Colton Jn were on the TRU critical path. The existing Doncaster North FS is being replaced with an MPTSC as Potteric Carr SFC + FS is due to replace it.

 

[43095john]

ECPSU 2 does in fact start at Bawtry, south of Doncaster. New Feeder Stations have already gone online to replace the existing ones at:

• York (Skelton Jn area);
• Hutton Bonville (between Northallerton & Darlington);
• Durham (south of the station); and
• Benton (between Heaton Depot and Cramlington).

IIRC TPE have had to change between electric and diesel between Morpeth (nearest TSC is Stannington MPTSC) and Innerwick FS (near Torness). They've also had to do it somewhere between York and Newcastle as well on Sundays only, and some LNER services have also had to go off the juice between Morpeth and Innerwick for the same reason on Sundays.

There is also another conventional feeder outstanding at Ulgham Crossing, various TSCs outstanding, and the two Static Frequency Converter Feeder Stations at Hambleton Jn (due to go live this summer) and Marshall Meadows (which is still a work in progress AIUI).



All of this, with the exception of Hambleton Jn SFC + FS, is immaterial to the ability of trains to use the juice between York & Church Fenton, as only Hambleton & Colton Jn were on the TRU critical path. The existing Doncaster North FS is being replaced with an MPTSC as Potteric Carr SFC + FS is due to replace it.

The Sundays "Diesel Only" restriction betwen York & Durham ended last year following power upgrades at Hutton Bonville. TPE 802s now use electrics daily between Copmanthorpe (south of York) & a location just short of Chathill

The restriction north of Chathill still exists daily, likely until Marshall Meadows gets completed

 

[snowball]

Thanks for all the info but I'm still unclear whether a straight electric train could run from Church Fenton to York, assuming if necessary that no other trains were drawing power within 50 miles.

 

[3RDGEN]

Thanks for all the info but I'm still unclear whether a straight electric train could run from Church Fenton to York, assuming if necessary that no other trains were drawing power within 50 miles.

Church Fenton to Colton Junction, were the East Coast joins, is wired but not connected so there's no electric trains on that section. Appears to be Christmas 23 &24 for the connections although it isn't clear, as such perhaps early 2024 will see TPE on electric from Church Fenton.

 

[59CosG95]

Church Fenton to Colton Junction, were the East Coast joins, is wired but not connected so there's no electric trains on that section. Appears to be Christmas 23 &24 for the connections although it isn't clear, as such perhaps early 2024 will see TPE on electric from Church Fenton.

I suspect that one pair of lines will be connected first (most likely the Leeds lines for my money), with the other pair (most likely the Normantons) following the Xmas after.

 

[WAO]

Post #6686 has a helpful link detailing the completion of a MPTSC at Colton Junction replacing the previous Classic TSC but including switchgear for the Leeds/Normanton lines. This may well allow for easier connection of the new work. I'm not really convinced that work will stop for 18 months.

The new cabin(et) has the name SIEMENS on the side; the previous one appears to have the old logo for GEC on its end; green paint the norm!

WAO

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I suspect that one pair of lines will be connected first (most likely the Leeds lines for my money), with the other pair (most likely the Normantons) following the Xmas after.

Given they've got the wires all installed and connecting the Leeds lines has none of the difficulties of ECML side they need to do that first so some economic use can be made of the assets.

 

[quantinghome]

I really don’t get the point of the White Rose station. It looks to be so far from anywhere useful. Can think of loads of more urgent locations for stations in West Yorkshire.

Business park, largest retail park in Leeds outside the centre, plenty of residential areas nearby. Not a bad location at all.

Elland, Thorpe Park and Airport station schemes are all progressing. What other locations would you consider to be urgent?

It serves the business park. But a fair hike from the shops.

It's five minutes from the shops. Well within the typical catchment area of a railway station.

 

[Spartacus]

Business park, largest retail park in Leeds outside the centre, plenty of residential areas nearby. Not a bad location at all.

Elland, Thorpe Park and Airport station schemes are all progressing. What other locations would you consider to be urgent?


It's five minutes from the shops. Well within the typical catchment area of a railway station.

Not a very big business park, and I wonder how many are now largely working from home? Someone I know who was based there barely went into the office BEFORE Covid.

Not a very big retail park either, a long way off Meadowhall size, and much closer to 10 minutes walk from the new station than 5, possibly more if people are loaded down with bags after a few hours shopping shopping. I'm not aware of any plans to make the footpath covered either, so you'll get wet if it rains. Given all factors I'd rather use the attached bus station with a wide variety of destinations, which would give me practically door to door service, even without considering the car.

While there is residential nearby, for most Cottingley was closer than White Rose will be. Maybe easier for those in Beeston, but I doubt the business park'll like that

I struggle to make full sense of the decision and I live nearby. I'm still convinced it was a fop to the owners of the White Rose Centre to withdraw their opposition to the Leeds congestion/clean air zone as the WRC has at various time fallen within the planned area.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Not a very big business park, and I wonder how many are now largely working from home? Someone I know who was based there barely went into the office BEFORE Covid.

Not a very big retail park either, a long way off Meadowhall size, and much closer to 10 minutes walk from the new station than 5, possibly more if people are loaded down with bags after a few hours shopping shopping. I'm not aware of any plans to make the footpath covered either, so you'll get wet if it rains. Given all factors I'd rather use the attached bus station with a wide variety of destinations, which would give me practically door to door service, even without considering the car.

While there is residential nearby, for most Cottingley was closer than White Rose will be. Maybe easier for those in Beeston, but I doubt the business park'll like that

I struggle to make full sense of the decision and I live nearby. I'm still convinced it was a fop to the owners of the White Rose Centre to withdraw their opposition to the Leeds congestion/clean air zone as the WRC has at various time fallen within the planned area.

My main objections to White Rose station are that (a) the location seems to be closer to the business park than the shopping mall, so why is it named for the mall?; (b) all those people who bought those new houses next to Cottingley station thinking they had a station on their doorstep now have a station several hundred yards away; and (c) Leeds city centre is (or was, pre-Covid) one of the top retail destinations in the North of England, whereas WRC is just a fun-size Meadowhall with very little to draw in the crowds... so I'm not sure why Leeds Council were so keen on polishing the t**d. If it were up to me I'd knock the whole thing down and return the site to nature.

Also "White Rose" is a silly name for a station. White Rose Centre, or better Leeds White Rose Centre would be far better.

 

[Spartacus]

so I'm not sure why Leeds Council were so keen on polishing the t**d. If it were up to me I'd knock the whole thing down and return the site to nature.

That's where my clean air zone theory came in, and by the time it was put aside (I won't say scrapped, as I'm sure it'll be back) there was too much momentum behind the new station for it to be scrapped without the obvious link being made by all. There really is little sense behind it at all otherwise.

I guess as the business park is also called 'White Rose' whoever decided on the name wanted something that wasn't purely tuned to the shopping centre, but I agree it's still a poor choice of name. I suppose Churwell or even Beeston South were never even in the running.

 

[nr758123]

I struggle to make full sense of the decision and I live nearby.

in 2014, WYCA commissioned a study into 61 potential station sites in North and West Yorkshire, assessing potential passenger demand, construction feasibility and operational feasibility. White Rose Centre was ranked at no 57.

all those people who bought those new houses next to Cottingley station thinking they had a station on their doorstep now have a station several hundred yards away

I'm surprised there has been so little local opposition to the effective closure of Cottingley station.

 

[Spartacus]

in 2014, WYCA commissioned a study into 61 potential station sites in North and West Yorkshire, assessing potential passenger demand, construction feasibility and operational feasibility. White Rose Centre was ranked at no 57.

Why am I not surprised. I bet it was well below Horbury, but that lines struggles to get ANY service right now...

I'm surprised there has been so little local opposition to the effective closure of Cottingley station.

I'm not really surprised by the Cottingley side, rarely do from council estates, but the lack of complaints from the Churwell side surprises me. Maybe that's because the new side will be little more difficult to access for them, easier for some. from Cottingley it's much more awkward.

 

[YorksLad12]

My main objections to White Rose station are that (a) the location seems to be closer to the business park than the shopping mall, so why is it named for the mall?; (b) all those people who bought those new houses next to Cottingley station thinking they had a station on their doorstep now have a station several hundred yards away; and (c) Leeds city centre is (or was, pre-Covid) one of the top retail destinations in the North of England, whereas WRC is just a fun-size Meadowhall with very little to draw in the crowds... so I'm not sure why Leeds Council were so keen on polishing the t**d. If it were up to me I'd knock the whole thing down and return the site to nature.

Also "White Rose" is a silly name for a station. White Rose Centre, or better Leeds White Rose Centre would be far better.

It's named after the business park. I still think we should have done a DLR and named it after something historical that no-one remembers... such as Systime

in 2014, WYCA commissioned a study into 61 potential station sites in North and West Yorkshire, assessing potential passenger demand, construction feasibility and operational feasibility. White Rose Centre was ranked at no 57.

I'm surprised there has been so little local opposition to the effective closure of Cottingley station.

I think that was before the closure of Cottingley was factored in. Cottingley, so they say, would cost too much to make fully accessible. The sop for losing their station would be a much-improved bus service. Unconnectedly, when it looked as if the Bus Recovery Grant was going to be pulled last August, First deregistered all of the commercial bus services from Cottingley...

Why am I not surprised. I bet it was well below Horbury, but that lines struggles to get ANY service right now...

White Rose has the benefit of actual passenger trains running on the route - Horbury doesn't, and when it did it didn't have many.

 

[Spartacus]

White Rose has the benefit of actual passenger trains running on the route - Horbury doesn't, and when it did it didn't have many.

When it did though it had as many at Cottingley has now.

 

[Halish Railway]

White Rose has the benefit of actual passenger trains running on the route - Horbury doesn't, and when it did it didn't have many.

Once the four-tracking and grade separation of Huddersfield to Dewsbury is complete it should be simple enough to have two passenger trains per hour through Horbury - Maybe served by the Manchester to York service that is mooted to begin in December and a new Huddersfield to Leeds via Wakefield service.

 

[nr758123]

Why am I not surprised. I bet it was well below Horbury, but that lines struggles to get ANY service right now...

Horbury Bridge came in at 26th, "Ossett Parkway" 56th.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

It's named after the business park. I still think we should have done a DLR and named it after something historical that no-one remembers... such as Systime

There used to be a small unit in the business park that was occupied by Sulzer... that would at least satisfy the foamers!

Horbury Bridge came in at 26th, "Ossett Parkway" 56th.

Not sure why that was looked at as two different proposals... a station at Horbury Bridge would act as a railhead for Ossett anyway. I'm not sure where else you could put a station that would be any closer to Ossett. Maybe at the bridge that carries Storrs Hill Road over Healey Mills Yard, but your platforms would be a long way apart unless you diverted the main running lines through the middle of the yard rather than around opposite sides as they are today. The bridge carrying the main Huddersfield to Wakefield road would be a better location though.

 

[xotGD]

It's named after the business park. I still think we should have done a DLR and named it after something historical that no-one remembers... such as Systime

Or how about "White Rose (for Cottingley)"?