LU/Elizabeth Line 4G update

[bluegoblin7]

I noticed on the Elizabeth line that there is 'TfL_wifi' (which hasn't worked for months) so maybe they will roll this out to the tube network, and get rid of the other networks (?)

This is the on-train Wi-Fi, which won’t work in the COS at the moment. It should work fine on the above ground sections, and is the same SSID as used on the Overground 710s.

 

[c1995]

Ever since iOS 16 came out I’ve had to manually connect to EE WiFi auto.

Last night I travelled into work and had the same. Updated to iOS 16.4 overnight and this morning WiFi is connecting automatically at most stations like it used to on iOS 15! So I’m presuming there was a bug fix.

 

[Mojo]

I think they will probably keep it, mostly for the tourist trade who can't roam. I noticed on the Elizabeth line that there is 'TfL_wifi' (which hasn't worked for months) so maybe they will roll this out to the tube network, and get rid of the other networks (?)

The main purpose and benefit of the Wi-Fi is for staff and BTP use, it would be retained for that benefit alone.

 

[jon0844]

The main purpose and benefit of the Wi-Fi is for staff and BTP use, it would be retained for that benefit alone.

Of course, but they could get rid of a public service and just keep the staff SSIDs (and make them hidden). Stations often have hidden SSIDs for things like ticketing equipment.

 

[lookapigeon]

No progress from what I've seen on new installs, but it looks like BAI have taken over the LU station & platform wifi which was previously operated by Virgin Media. VM have now disappeared from the list of available Wifi networks, these customers have to use Wifi Extra. Interestingly, Vodafone is now offering tube wifi again under VodafoneWifi. Yay!

The wifi provider has definitely changed, I noticed the other day that the ISP on the LU Wifi is now Cogent Communications rather than VM and the speed is cut down considerably. Virgin were definitely more generous with the speeds. I was connecting via the 3UK encrypted SSID.

 

[setdown]

Selfishly I'm happy, I had no access to the VM wifi previously with ID Mobile, but as I have a car tracker running on GiffGaff, I've got access to Wifi Extra because of that.

I would hope the wifi should stick around even after the mobile switch-on, anything that can be used to reduce mobile network congestion has got to be a good thing.

 

[miklcct]

5G worked on Notting Hill Gate (Central LIne) yesterday.

 

[JonnyM]

No updates network-side.

BAI are running behind, and, as a result, networks aren't rushing to go live like they would have been otherwise.

So, returning to the office today after the Easter break I noticed that there is a new installation on the Central line westbound at Bond Street, both 4G and 5G cell points. Hopefully, the safety issue is now been resolved and it's full steam ahead?

 

[MrJeeves]

So, returning to the office today after the Easter break I noticed that there is a new installation on the Central line westbound at Bond Street, both 4G and 5G cell points. Hopefully, the safety issue is now been resolved and it's full steam ahead?

New installation as in "it's live", or the boxes are there?

 

[jon0844]

The wifi provider has definitely changed, I noticed the other day that the ISP on the LU Wifi is now Cogent Communications rather than VM and the speed is cut down considerably. Virgin were definitely more generous with the speeds. I was connecting via the 3UK encrypted SSID.

Early on I think Virgin used its Underground Wi-Fi service as a demonstration of how fast a Virgin Media broadband connection could be, so there was an incentive not to limit it. I remember sitting on platforms with a laptop uploading photos and video to Drive or YouTube, as it was so much faster than using mobile data at street level.

Now, I doubt anyone is looking at a public Wi-Fi service and comparing it with anything, so it makes sense to throttle the service to provide a more consistent service for all.

It might also just be that more people are using it today, and those using it are doing more data intensive things like streaming video.

 

[JonnyM]

New installation as in "it's live", or the boxes are there?

Boxes only, no live connection yet. Westbound Central line atm, not appeared on the eastbound.

 

[MrJeeves]

Boxes only, no live connection yet. Westbound Central line atm, not appeared on the eastbound.

Hardware installation hasn't stopped, just the enabling of connectivity on them.

 

[TheHSRailFan]

I've only just found this thread.

Im with EE and the 4G on the Jubilee Line tunnels is amazing and more faster than normal I typically get. I also noticed the Station "Wifi" is really not that good at all. It tells you that I should automatically connect but I always get the issue of I need a password to join the EE wifi. I forget afterwards but Im hoping this "station wifi" with Virgin goes.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Is there any light at the end of the tunnel, so to speak, in resolving the issue of enabling revenue use of further installations?

 

[MrJeeves]

I've only just found this thread.

Im with EE and the 4G on the Jubilee Line tunnels is amazing and more faster than normal I typically get. I also noticed the Station "Wifi" is really not that good at all. It tells you that I should automatically connect but I always get the issue of I need a password to join the EE wifi. I forget afterwards but Im hoping this "station wifi" with Virgin goes.

Jubilee Line 4G hasn't been touched as part of this rollout at all.

You should be able to connect to EE WiFi Auto by choosing SIM authentication.

Virgin don't do the station WiFi anymore, as of the start of April.

 

[TheHSRailFan]

Jubilee Line 4G hasn't been touched as part of this rollout at all.

You should be able to connect to EE WiFi Auto by choosing SIM authentication.

Virgin don't do the station WiFi anymore, as of the start of April.

Sorry if I worded it wrong but I've used the 4G in the Jubilee Line Extension (well how far it can reach) since its rollout in 2020 and its never failed me. I know there's the rollout that is needed to be done on the older part of the line.

Originally Under Vrigin, it took me to an EE article that didn't help at all.

I only just noticed that thanks to this thread, I shall try again when I'm next in London.

 

[MrJeeves]

Sorry if I worded it wrong but I've used the 4G in the Jubilee Line Extension (well how far it can reach) since its rollout in 2020 and its never failed me. I know there's the rollout that is needed to be done on the older part of the line.

Ah, sorry, when you said it was better than you usually get, I thought you meant it had improved recently. I see what you actually meant now...

If you think JLE EE 4G is good, you should try one of the new station deployments where you can get close to 900 Mbps (yes, on 4G!) on a modern smartphone!

 

[TheHSRailFan]

Ah, sorry, when you said it was better than you usually get, I thought you meant it had improved recently. I see what you actually meant now...

If you think JLE EE 4G is good, you should try one of the new station deployments where you can get close to 900 Mbps (yes, on 4G!) on a modern smartphone!

It's okay haha, I will try next time I am down in London when I have a reason to.

 

[jon0844]

I remember getting 800-900Mbps at an EE event at Wembley Stadium. These days it's not uncommon to get 300-400Mbps on 4G in many towns and cities, which is EE is not so desperate to add 5G to certain locations. They've got loads of spectrum and 4G is usable by more people.

Vodafone also seems to be capable of topping 300 meg on 4G, which is pretty impressive.

 

[mrmartin]

Was looking at bidb.uk for something else and noticed this



BAI communications works all down city road where the northern line is. Could just be a coincidence? Is this a good indicator of where work is happening?

 

[MrJeeves]

Was looking at bidb.uk for something else and noticed this

View attachment 134377

BAI communications works all down city road where the northern line is. Could just be a coincidence? Is this a good indicator of where work is happening?

Will likely be fibre runs to the stations.

 

[JonnyM]

Will likely be fibre runs to the stations.

I know we generally only notice what is being installed on the lines we all use in terms of boxes and kit on platforms and the diddy round antennas being fitted in the station circulating areas but it's easy to forget that this is a massive project which goes far beyond what we see. In time I would like to some sort of documentary on this whole process which takes account of the fibre laying, cable routing in stations and on platforms and everything else that goes on behind the scenes. Because of what the project involves I still doubt whether the whole thing will be completed by the end of 2024 but we live in hope.

 

[mrmartin]

Anyone have any updates on this? Coming up to 6 months delay since the likes of TCR and Bank were meant to go online around mid Dec 2022.

 

[JonnyM]

Anyone have any updates on this? Coming up to 6 months delay since the likes of TCR and Bank were meant to go online around mid Dec 2022.

The rollout seems completely non-existent at the moment, in fact I’ve given up looking for any progress. It’s worth pointing out that in June will be a full 12 months since TfL announced the TCR, Bank, Oxford Circus etc switch on would “be within 6 months”.

 

[Gigabit]

From speaking to a Vodafone employee, coverage will expand on the Central Line by the end of this year.

 

[mrmartin]

From speaking to a Vodafone employee, coverage will expand on the Central Line by the end of this year.

I'd hope so! Does anyone know what the actual issue is?

 

[MrJeeves]

I'd hope so! Does anyone know what the actual issue is?

It's related to how the locations of the cell sites are recorded in the national database for emergency call handling.

Each cell site in the UK is entered into this database, along with its location. Right now the issue is what locations should be recorded. For example, should it be the location of the radio equipment? Should it be the physical location of the antennas? Should it be the location of an entrance to the nearest tube station to each of these?

I think some form of agreement has been reached (or an agreement to continue deploying while this is being worked out has been made).

This is extra important for tube 2G/3G/4G/5G because there's obviously no GPS available underground, which is normally what would be used for advanced mobile location data transmitted alongside a 999 call.

 

[androom8]

It's related to how the locations of the cell sites are recorded in the national database for emergency call handling.

Each cell site in the UK is entered into this database, along with its location. Right now the issue is what locations should be recorded. For example, should it be the location of the radio equipment? Should it be the physical location of the antennas? Should it be the location of an entrance to the nearest tube station to each of these?

I think some form of agreement has been reached (or an agreement to continue deploying while this is being worked out has been made).

This is extra important for tube 2G/3G/4G/5G because there's obviously no GPS available underground, which is normally what would be used for advanced mobile location data transmitted alongside a 999 call.

How this issue was solved for the network along the Jubilee Line extension between Westminster and North Greenwich? That was the proof-of-concept trial and live for like 3 years now.

Why the same solution can not be used for the newly deployed sections?

 

[jon0844]

It's related to how the locations of the cell sites are recorded in the national database for emergency call handling.

Each cell site in the UK is entered into this database, along with its location. Right now the issue is what locations should be recorded. For example, should it be the location of the radio equipment? Should it be the physical location of the antennas? Should it be the location of an entrance to the nearest tube station to each of these?

I think some form of agreement has been reached (or an agreement to continue deploying while this is being worked out has been made).

This is extra important for tube 2G/3G/4G/5G because there's obviously no GPS available underground, which is normally what would be used for advanced mobile location data transmitted alongside a 999 call.

EE's low level coverage at St Pancras identifies its location as St Pancras LL for its mobile service.

 

[mrmartin]

It's related to how the locations of the cell sites are recorded in the national database for emergency call handling.

Each cell site in the UK is entered into this database, along with its location. Right now the issue is what locations should be recorded. For example, should it be the location of the radio equipment? Should it be the physical location of the antennas? Should it be the location of an entrance to the nearest tube station to each of these?

I think some form of agreement has been reached (or an agreement to continue deploying while this is being worked out has been made).

This is extra important for tube 2G/3G/4G/5G because there's obviously no GPS available underground, which is normally what would be used for advanced mobile location data transmitted alongside a 999 call.

Comedy. So to avoid the wrong location being given; they can't allow any service (inc any 999 calls - surely allowing 999 calls with potentially wrong location information being tagged is much better than no calls whatsoever!?). Bizarre.