I think they do for railcards.
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Ticket office closures
- Thread starter mason200
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I think they do for railcards.
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Thus there's a mechanism to print photos on plastic cards.
Wouldn't be a massive stretch to sell season tickets only on ITSO and for you to have to obtain one with a photograph from Railcard's delivery channels in advance of purchasing one.
Less convenient? Sure, but hardly anyone buys a one off season, and you'd only have to do it once.
TBH I don't think it's a particular stretch to look at reform like seasons being only sold online or by telephone by monthly direct debit if you want more than a weekly. Decomplicating the fares system in ways that would be disadvantageous to only a small number of people* is key to making the full removal of booking offices workable - if they just close them and change nothing else then it is going to be a faff.
* Such as not sneaking in 5% increases while doing it, yes, you, LNER.
I mean, it's the same principle as an oyster photocard, isn't it? It would be great if we had a national ITSO photocard system for all bus and train companies, and you could load on season tickets/get discounted age-related tickets without all the faff you have currently.
Perhaps they were finding the card processing fees too expensive, as I mentioned in post #319. There are perfectly legitimate reasons for preferring cash, the idea that everyone that does so is fiddling something is simply not true.
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It doesn't help if the required ticket isn't available at a TVM though, such as an Anglia Plus. I'm still not sure what I'm *supposed* to do when turning up at a barriered, penalty fare station, where the ticket office is closed (or non-extant) and the TVM doesn't sell the desired ticket - as I've mentioned on here a few times over the past couple of years. There are various things one can do - don't buy a ticket at all, buy a ticket to your first stop and try to exchange it there, etc. etc. - but there doesn't appear to be an official answer as to the *correct*, guaranteed-not-to-get-you-into-trouble, answer. Things like this need sorting out before we go any further with ticket office closures.
Or you could just post plastic photocards to anybody who needs one.
Even more convenient for most people if you could just use a photo driving license as ID.
TVMs can happily sell monthly or more season tickets (at least if you've had one before - and maybe not all machines but if some can then in principle all can), and it's possible to buy seasons online to put on a smartcard (again not everywhere but it's possible).
So I can't see why closing ticket offices should result in loss of ability to buy season tickets for any particular period (month to year) when it suits people rather than losing that flexibility and saying it's monthly direct debit or nothing.
Edited to add: But just as one can still apply for a passport with a paper form, there should be the ability to get a season ticket photocard without having to do it on-line even if that means posting a photo and a form off somewhere.
I seem to recall that when Southern were planning a mass cull of ticket offices they promised that ticket machines would be able to sell more tickets than they previously did. But not that they would sell everything a ticket office could...
I think that the truth is that the train operators don't want to answer the question. My experiences are similar to yours.
12LDA28C
Established Member
Seriously? Some people I know claim this, and don't even take their wallet with them when they leave the house, instead relying on ApplePay on their phone for purchases. Good luck with that when your phone runs out of charge, gets accidentally dropped or stolen.
Rather like the coyness over the fact that if faced with a credit card only ticket machine it's OK to get on the train and pay cash (and outside PF areas there's no requirement to get a promise to pay either).
It's not something you tend to find on signs on ticket machines.
Though unless you stash money/cards in various places around your person, having your wallet stolen would have a similar effect.
12LDA28C
Established Member
Indeed, although you would be really unlucky to have your phone stolen at the same time. Better to carry both. I also still tip waiting staff with cash so that it goes to the right person if the service was good.
Personally, I won't be giving up cash any time soon.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
WMT's website claims you already can (possibly only with smartcards?)
The quote is above.
No I meant that people brave enough to go out with just their phone as the only method of payment are perhaps not being so different to someone in the Old Days pre smart phones where you might well have all means of payment in one (physical!) wallet.
But I think we digress from the topic.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
True but you're always going to give more personal data by buying an e-ticket, than by buying at the station using cash. Name, credit card number and email address are all forms of personal data. The train operators can also use the data they collect to analyse journeys.
Locking and unlocking is an interesting one. At certain stations the usual procedure is for the person opening up the station to lock the gate giving direct access to the platform, while the ticket office is open, as well as unlock any waiting rooms. However, in some cases (especially when it's a relief member of staff) that locking and unlocking never happens.
I’m not going to delve into this too much. Sure, eventually E tickets (and tap in tap out on some networks) will be the only way to have a valid tickets - the vast majority of those without smartphones will eventually die off. But for the meantime, the idea that a ticket machine is better than a ticket office is astounding. I can sell a regular a ticket in 10 seconds. TVM’s are much slower. And they don’t deal with complex journeys very well at all. Whether traditional ‘ticket offices’ will be missed in the future is another question for me. What is important is keeping the railways staffed. I work in a ticket office on an heavy used commuter rail network and despite one or two people on this forum suggesting over and over again my job is completely pointless, I look after the station as well as sell tickets. In fact, that’s only really a small proportion of my job, especially at stations where I am the only member of staff at any given time. I mop, brush up, grit, blow leaves, shovel snow, clean up human waste (sick, poo on dirty toilets ect), change bins, offer travel advice, provide a reassuring presence for lone/vulnerable travellers and also provide assistance for the disabled and elderly (carry bags down stairs ect). And provide first aid when needed. So for these reasons we should never unstaff stations. I’m not an idiot, soon paper tickets won’t be a thing. But keeping staff in the traditional ‘station master’ role is very important to me in my opinion. But I think the idea of the DFT just moving the staff to the concourse area as bull***t. They want them gone completely. Redundancies all over the show. I can see it a mile off.
It’s not a claim, it‘s how ‘some people’ lead their lives.
I don’t take a wallet out of the house, mostly because I don’t have a wallet. (and haven’t for years).
And my phone doesn’t run out of charge. I don’t let it.
Indeed, the question conveniently doesn't mention that the ability to buy a toastie will be lost.
In my experience, the people who buy the wrong ticket at MIA have usually done so using the TVM.
There are ticket offices where this is the case. However when RPIs turn up at the platform entrance the takings magically treble that shift.
I wonder if the Equality Act would see this as indirect discrimination in the UK.
5) Hold the queue/guard up while scrolling around to find the right email, then open each PDF attachment in turn ("was it Adult 3 or Adult 4 I did last?"), with a dodgy internet connection slowing things down.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
My passport renewal isn't due to next year but according to Thomas Cook you now pay a premium to renew if you don't want to apply online with a digital photo.
Thomas Cook said:
Everything You Need to Know About Passport Renewals | Thomas Cook Blog
Before you book your summer holiday you’ll need to ensure you have a passport that’s valid for your getaway.
12LDA28C
Established Member
Good for you.
I assume you never drive as if you ever got asked for your driving licence or identification, is that also on your phone? I just don't see the benefit of only paying by phone. Some places (shock, horror) don't take ApplePay.
I usually tip a waiter/waitress in cash, sometimes I'll drop some spare cash in a charity box or give some to a homeless person. I would probably avoid somewhere that refused to accept cash, quite honestly.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Just having TVMs seems very much established in the UK at most minor stations. A smartphone, tablet or PC is likely to be easier to use for people with most disabilities as they can tailor its setup to their needs with things like screen readers, large or even Braille keyboards and enlarged fonts.
But does Sweden have something like London and just let people who are severely disabled travel free anyway?
northwichcat
Veteran Member
I can't speak about ApplePay as I don't have an Apple phone. On Android if you want to add your Barclaycard to your phone, you must use the Barclaycard app (not the Google Wallet), which then works the same way as a contactless Barclaycard, except it's on your phone.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
There is no legal requirement to carry your driving licence with you when driving. If asked for it you can opt to produce it within 7 days at a Police station of your choice (a "producer").
Most people don't otherwise need to prove their identity very often unless they look quite young. But funnily enough the market has thought of this - many phone cases have one or two slots for cards like this.
While I haven't yet given up carrying my wallet, I always pay by phone if it's offered. In the last year or so the only place it has not been, bar a few places which are cash only e.g. the local chippy, is the M6 Toll. And they are presently converting their readers so it will be accepted, the new ones were, last time I used it, there but plated over.
I never give cash to the homeless. I'm increasingly convinced it doesn't help with the issue at all and prefer to donate to homeless charities instead. I'd consider buying them something they might need like a meal, but it seems anecdotally that this is often refused which says quite a lot to me about e.g. whether they're actually homeless or whether they are more in need of drug rehabilitation than cash.
If I tip I do it when paying by card. For charities I mostly give online, though I have noticed "tap to donate" more often recently and have done that once or twice.
I have a cardholder for a couple of essential cards - Licence, train pass, etc.
Why?
Staff costs. It’s not a secret.
12LDA28C
Established Member
That's fine, but most likely the tip either goes directly to the business / owner or gets shared out amongst waiting staff so potentially not directly to the person you wanted it to.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
There are a few potential savings.
1. People - paying them and training them (there will clearly be a reduction)
2. Premises - some station buildings will be able to be closed entirely and leased out or sold, while others might be able to bring a shop in in place of the booking office
I do wonder if the personal security argument could be helped by offering preferential lease rates to businesses like convenience stores which will guarantee to stay open for long hours, allowing people somewhere to go if they feel unsafe and allowing e.g. toilets to stay open.
Yes, it's a tenner or so extra, and this has been the case for several years. Quite reasonable as paper applications have to be scanned and the staff who do that have to be paid.
Only a very tiny proportion of places don't take contactless payments, such a small proportion that it's easy to avoid them and buy elsewhere.
12LDA28C
Established Member
I like cash. I appreciate that you apparently don't. But why should I be forced to pay by other means because of people like yourself?
You do you, I'll do me and retailers, bars, restaurants should cater for both.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Where there's a "tronc" agreement on tips, unless a member of staff is being dishonest (and they'll soon become VERY unpopular with their colleagues if they are) cash tips will also be divided in the same way.
If a business owner is just pocketing tips themselves then that makes them the lowest of the low, but I don't believe all or even most would do that, and staff tend to let on if they do. If you hear that from staff avoiding the business entirely next time might be best.
12LDA28C
Established Member
Why would I avoid them? I've got cash in my wallet, thanks.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Cash is extremely expensive to process. But unlike cards, you incur pretty much all of the costs if you accept any of it. That's why businesses want rid.
For instance if you have a cash TVM you have to empty it frequently. If it's a card one you only have to attend occasionally to replace the ticket roll or fix it if it fails.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
There's advantages and disadvantages for retailers for both methods. Some have chosen to become cashless, others don't want card payments.
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