Southern Railway much improved?

[387star]

With the 313s and 455s gone Southern Rail seems to be excelling these days. Trains are often immaculate inside and generally quite reliable.

Before the 2016 strikes they were held I'm high regard before their reputation was shattered.

Their trains seem amongst the tidiest these days. The 377s look almost brand new inside.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jun 2023 ==

As seen here

 

[Deepgreen]

By whom were they held in high regard? Their 377s have undergone a refurbishment programme so certainly should look smart. As for reliability, I haven't noticed any change, and I don't think their 455s suffered from low availability anyway (just a personal observation - the stats might say I'm wrong).

 

[PGAT]

I do agree that Southern has massively stepped up since 2017/2018. I think it has more to do with management than the fleet

 

[blelic]

Reliability has definitely improved when compared to this time last year at least. Train crew issues are far less frequent. Another aspect where they are consistently decent is their communication online, with the website typically giving far more detailed descriptions of disruption than other operators.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

This thread is a joke right? Trains are failing more frequently, are always short formed and thus often dangerously overcrowded, and reliability is attempting to reach new lows. Cleaning the seat covers during a refurb is most certainly not changing their reputation, especially after binning off two fleets without replacement.

 

[blelic]

This thread is a joke right? Trains are failing more frequently, are always short formed and thus often dangerously overcrowded, and reliability is attempting to reach new lows. Cleaning the seat covers during a refurb is most certainly not changing their reputation, especially after binning off two fleets without replacement.

Overcrowding is a problem, but it is on all operators at the moment due to DfT cuts. Southern has - relatively speaking - improved a lot when you take that into account.

 

[PGAT]

This thread is a joke right? Trains are failing more frequently, are always short formed and thus often dangerously overcrowded, and reliability is attempting to reach new lows. Cleaning the seat covers during a refurb is most certainly not changing their reputation, especially after binning off two fleets without replacement.

Were they short formed, or were they booked to be 5 cars instead of 10? 9 times out of 10 it’s the latter.

Considering Southern have lost 65 trains in the span of a year, it’s quite impressive how they’ve managed to stay afloat. No operator is perfect, though.

 

[blelic]

Considering Southern have lost 65 trains in the span of a year, it’s quite impressive how they’ve managed to stay afloat.

Exactly, especially considering that there was actually timetable improvements on the coastway following the 313 withdrawals. The current timetables are clearly well thought out, despite obviously being constrained by the DfT.

 

[winks]

The in-house refurbs don’t last long that’s the trouble with the 377s. Unfortunately within a few months they look tatty and the arm rests seem to bear the brunt. I’ve also noticed they haven’t re-sprayed the back of the seats / tables - looking pretty worn when I was last on a refurbed unit.

 

[yorksrob]

I think the proof will be in levels of overcrowding now that the Governments rolling stock cuts have gone through.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Southern has - relatively speaking - improved a lot when you take that into account.

Going from a 12 car railway to 8 in the peak is not an improvement. I am now having to stand from Hove to London thanks to it.

Considering Southern have lost 65 trains in the span of a year, it’s quite impressive how they’ve managed to stay afloat.

Is getting rid of 65 trains meant to be an improvement?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jun 2023 ==

Were they short formed, or were they booked to be 5 cars instead of 10? 9 times out of 10 it’s the latter.

Apologies, short formed compared to historical timetables. Not hard to avoid short formations when you run everything as short as you can possibly get away with.

 

[PGAT]

Is getting rid of 65 trains meant to be an improvement?

Did I ever say it was?

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Did I ever say it was?

Immediately saying "no operator is perfect, though" after implies you see their ability to stay afloat as a positive on a thread about Southern Rail having improved. Tone isn't exactly easy to pick up in text.

 

[Mzzzs]

The problem was those 65 trains removed were at the end of their life. We needed a better plan than we got.

 

[PGAT]

The problem was those 65 trains removed were at the end of their life. We needed a better plan than we got.

I assume there would have been a plan in place or in the making for the 455s and 313s to leave, but COVID shifted priorities

 

[Sad Sprinter]

In South London, it certainly has improved since Covid. 2tph via Streatham Hill into 2022 was awful, glad to have the London Bridge services back. And stopping Horsham trains at Balham has helped ease crowds at Clapham Junction.

Some places like Wandsworth Common are still left with a poor pre-Covid service. But it's a fairly quiet station.

 

[blelic]

I am now having to stand from Hove to London thanks to it.

I regularly travel from Hove, and yes it’s true that the services are busy, but before COVID this was actually a four coach train. That’s definitely an improvement when the service frequency is equal. In terms of the mainline services only, the only major reduction compared to pre-COVID is the loss of the Southern VIC-BTN trains. South London and the Costways have had slightly more reductions, but it’s still a decent travelling experience overall for most journeys.

I’m not sure if others agree or not from other parts of the network, but the services with the most crowding issues in my area are probably the longer distance West Coastway services, and these haven’t been cut - not an improvement as such, but it’s not like the cuts haven’t been thought through at all.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

but before COVID this was actually a four coach train.

The 0650 was not a four coach train. I said peak.

 

[blelic]

The 0650 was not a four coach train. I said peak.

Sorry, was talking about the service in general (including some peak time examples). Just because your specific train has been reduced in coaches doesn’t mean these coaches aren’t now used in an area that needs them more. Southern has, in my view, certainly demonstrated an effective response to being forced to cut services and fleets, as they really do maximise the use of their 377s where possible.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Just because your specific train has been reduced in coaches doesn’t mean these coaches aren’t now used in an area that needs them more.

All 1Hs bar 2 are 8 v 12 on what used to be extremely busy on 12 cars. But of course, it's still an improvement for all, isn't it?

 

[PGAT]

Some places like Wandsworth Common are still left with a poor pre-Covid service. But it's a fairly quiet station.

Wandsworth Common has 4tph off-peak, 6tph peak and 7tph in the high peak. Perfectly sufficient in my opinion

 

[blelic]

All 1Hs bar 2 are 8 v 12 on what used to be extremely busy on 12 cars. But of course, it's still an improvement for all, isn't it?

Never said for all, but they’ve struck a reasonable balance. Pre-COVID it was a four coach train that attached to another at Haywards Heath, and that certainly is an improvement for Hove passengers throughout most of the day.

 

[43066]

attached to a mother

Attached to whose mother!?

 

[PGAT]

Attached to whose mother!?

Another train from Ore/Eastbourne. Weird analogy, I know

 

[blelic]

Attached to whose mother!?

Oops meant another.

 

[Timmyd]

What a strange post. The 377s are a nice modern fleet and well maintained to be fair. But normal passengers would be happier with their perfectly good 455s back and every train being 8 car than the reduction to 5s, now belatedly improved to 6s. Never see staff on suburban trains

 

[Tomp94]

There was an incident on the coastway this evening...not entirely sure where....but it has meant that customers have been stranded at diddy stations for hours on end with not a lot of communication from Southern, by the sounds of things!

 

[Bishopstone]

They’re doing okay. The new timetable matches capacity to demand reasonably well on the services I use regularly - east coastway locals and east coastway to Victoria. The return of two direct trains per hour from Brighton to Eastbourne is welcome.

The reliability of the Seafords is better now they’re 377/3s, rather than the 313s enthusiasts (from elsewhere) wanted to burden us with forever, because a mixed fleet is more interesting.

Cancellations on Marshlink are unacceptably high. I presume this is related to stock reliability rather rather than staffing shortfalls, as Marshlink is run from Eastbourne depot which is said to be attractive for internal transfers.

 

[yorksrob]

A well thought out plan in passengers interests would have seen the 455's retained to enable train lengths to be maintained and the 313's to be withdrawn.

Of course, withdrawing the 455's was never about passenger interests, matching the fleet to demand, life expiry or any other such drivel put forward by the Government. It was only ever about cuts.

 

[Cricketer8for9]

My south London commute is pretty reliable, helped by the good folk of East Surrey deciding that offices were not for them. I tend to think the Victoria timetable is pretty reliable though the Brighton main line suffers from historic (and I mean mid c19) infrastructure failures such as the horribly slow turnout at Keymer Jct in what was open fields when the line was built. How I long for grade separation as per the ECML.

The actual timetable has been pretty sensible for a good few years: the chaos was when London Bridge was being rebuilt for Thameslink 2000.