Northern cancellations getting worse

[Peterthegreat]

Similar story on the Sheffield to Doncaster line.

 

[northwichcat]

That is assuming Northern can source a replacement bus and don't send something tiny like a 14 seated minibus. Although I suspect most residents on that line don't bother with the trains on Sundays

Yes, Hence the two hourly bus replacement service

The line did see a significant increase in Sunday usage and the Sunday service was supposed to go hourly, the only reason it didn't was because of excuses relating to the number of crews available to work services. Northern do use pairs of Sprinters on all Sunday services, when they operate. Events such as the Tatton Foodies and RHS Show (both happening this month) do result in increased weekend usage, as well as sporting events and other events in both Manchester and Chester city centres. However, rail replacement buses do put a lot of people off travelling, even if they operate reliably. Also, the later arrival times of the first rail replacement buses wouldn't work for commuting. For example, normally the first Chester to Manchester Sunday train would be fine for someone in a retail job in Northwich or Knutsford who had a shift starting at 10am. Yesterday, the first rail replacement bus wouldn't have got them there on time.

 

[175001]

Really? This morning between 0730 and 0930 4 out of 8 Barnsley to Sheffield trains were cancelled due to having no driver.

Really?

We don't have a rest day agreement, we haven't had one since around June 2022 (might be even longer than that) so there's no overtime, and the ban has no effect on us at NT.

The issues at the depot at Sheffield stem from a number leaving for other TOCs and FOCs.

 

[urbophile]

It's because people HAVE planned ahead, that they have planned to use the services as published.

Sure, there are high levels of traincrew unavailability - we get that. But that in turn means that the inept management at Northern have published timetables (and accepted bookings, I'm guessing) without knowledge that there would be staff in place to run them.

Effectively the advice is: Plan ahead, but don't expect your plans to be achievable.

So we are supposed to plan ahead but the train company don't have to?

 

[ricoblade]

Similar story on the Sheffield to Doncaster line.

It appeared to be a "normal" day in that regard with several cancelaltions. Luckily all my 4 trains (3 Northern and one TPE) ran and were on time.

 

[TheSel]

So we are supposed to plan ahead but the train company don't have to?

That seems to be the message from Northern, yes.

Being a good boy, and always wanting to do as I'm told, I planned [well] ahead for last Thursday, and on 3 June booked an advance ticket for the 29th June on the 0820 Southport - Manchester Victoria, due to arrive at 0933. On 17 June, I received an email:

"Unfortunately, the 08:20 Northern service on Thursday, 29 June 2023 will no longer stop at Southport.

Your ticket is valid for the next available Northern service that’s departing from Southport, provided you’re still within any relevant Operator and time conditions of your ticket (e.g. Off-Peak or Super Off-Peak)."​

The "... next available Northern service ..." should have been the 0905 ex Southport, but that was cancelled on the day. It's not immediately clear why. RTT [Real Time Trains] shows the scheduled incoming service - the 0727 ex Manchester Oxford Road - as cancelled throughout, showing "This service was cancelled due to a problem with the traction equipment (MD)."

Realtime Trains | 2W04 0727 Manchester Oxford Road to Southport | 29/06/2023

Real-time train running information for 2W04 0727 departure from Manchester Oxford Road to Southport on 29/06/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

However, the 0905 ex Southport shows on RTT merely as cancelled between Wigan Wallgate and Manchester Oxford Road, even though it did not run from Southport, and therefore almost certainly didn't cover ANY of its journey.

Realtime Trains | 2O73 0905 Southport to Wigan Wallgate | 29/06/2023

Real-time train running information for 2O73 0905 departure from Southport to Wigan Wallgate on 29/06/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

So - it gets better this! - that means my "... next available Northern service ..." became the 0926 ex Southport, which got me as far as Wigan Wallgate, "on time", at 1005. Due to engineering work, I was then directed to a Rail Replacement bus, at 1020 from outstide the station, which finally got me to Manchester Victoria at 1201 - two hours and twenty eight minutes later than planned.

I am so glad I took Northern's advice and planned ahead!

 

[johntea]

I had an interesting experience on a Southport service departing from Leeds yesterday morning, it was in the platform ready to go and then the driver made an announcement that he was also ready to go but unfourtunately did not yet have a guard available!

After 10 minutes or so the guard (or *a* guard at least!) turned up and we got moving, not that you would have known as the guard didn't utter a single word or decide to have a walk down the train at any point (a similar story on the way back actually too, I essentially travelled to Manchester and back without a single ticket check other than the barriers at either end which seems unusual for such a long journey on Northern)

 

[northwichcat]

I had an interesting experience on a Southport service departing from Leeds yesterday morning, it was in the platform ready to go and then the driver made an announcement that he was also ready to go but unfourtunately did not yet have a guard available!

After 10 minutes or so the guard (or *a* guard at least!) turned up and we got moving, not that you would have known as the guard didn't utter a single word or decide to have a walk down the train at any point (a similar story on the way back actually too, I essentially travelled to Manchester and back without a single ticket check other than the barriers at either end which seems unusual for such a long journey on Northern)

Yesterday when I travelled to Manchester and back the guard walked through once on the Manchester bound journey. He seemed disappointed that so many people were showing him orange tickets that he couldn't scan. On the way back the guard didn't go through once. The service was a bit crowded between Altrincham and Knutsford, so walking through on that section would have been difficult but there was plenty of time and room for him to walk through between Stockport and Navigation Road.

I wonder if the news story about potential ticket office closures has resulted in more people buying at the station, in support of the station staff?

 

[156421]

Yesterday when I travelled to Manchester and back the guard walked through once on the Manchester bound journey. He seemed disappointed that so many people were showing him orange tickets that he couldn't scan. On the way back the guard didn't go through once. The service was a bit crowded between Altrincham and Knutsford, so walking through on that section would have been difficult but there was plenty of time and room for him to walk through between Stockport and Navigation Road.

I wonder if the news story about potential ticket office closures has resulted in more people buying at the station, in support of the station staff?

On Sunday June 25th I travelled Derby to Chesterfield (EMR), Chesterfield to Manchester Piccadilly (EMR), Manchester Piccadilly to Barrow (Northern), and the only check was a cursory ticket glance at entrance to Derby due to the ticket not opening the gatelines. No on train revenue protection at all. Gateline barriers open at Barrow and no staff to be seen.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Yesterday when I travelled to Manchester and back the guard walked through once on the Manchester bound journey. He seemed disappointed that so many people were showing him orange tickets that he couldn't scan.

No opportunity for any ticket checking commission on non-scannable tickets?

 

[Sheffcaster202]

Is all this not digressing a little from the thread?

 

[asw22]

Northern Rail services on the Airedale and Wharfedale lines severely disrupted yesterday evening and this morning due to overhead wire issues and tonight due to a broken down train.

This follows another broken down train on 17 July am.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Northern Rail services on the Airedale and Wharfedale lines severely disrupted yesterday evening and this morning due to overhead wire issues and tonight due to a broken down train.

This follows another broken down train on 17 July am.

That wasn't a short notice change to the timetable/drivers not working though. That was unforeseen.

 

[BPN2022]

lots of cancellations on the Blackpool North branch last night. 3 departures on the bounce cancelled leaving BPN at 1900 ish. This week has been notably worse for ad hoc cancellations from the overtime ban, doesn’t help it’s the first week of August.

Not good today either. 1055 Man Airport, 1105 Liverpool and 1120 York all cancelled from BPN.

 

[Rail Ranger]

Presumably to do with drivers being on holiday?

 

[BPN2022]

Presumably to do with drivers being on holiday?

Traincrew shortage. 4 in a row as 1125 Man Airport gone too!

I guess Northern didn’t think it’d be bad enough to do a reduced service under STP?

 

[Llandudno]

lots of cancellations on the Blackpool North branch last night. 3 departures on the bounce cancelled leaving BPN at 1900 ish. This week has been notably worse for ad hoc cancellations from the overtime ban, doesn’t help it’s the first week of August.

Not good today either. 1055 Man Airport, 1105 Liverpool and 1120 York all cancelled from BPN.

Let’s hope they run a near full service with strengthened capacity next Saturday and Sunday 12/13 August as Blackpool is hosting a massive free air show including the Red Arrows…!

 

[td97]

Very impressive by Northern - running an additional train service to make up for a cancelled XC!
2248 Stoke on Trent to Stockport (connecting with TfW to Piccadilly)

Realtime Trains | 2Z12 2248 Stoke-on-Trent to Stockport | 12/08/2023

Real-time train running information for 2Z12 2248 departure from Stoke-on-Trent to Stockport on 12/08/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Cancelled XC

Realtime Trains | 1M74 1845 Bournemouth to Manchester Piccadilly | 12/08/2023

Real-time train running information for 1M74 1845 departure from Bournemouth to Manchester Piccadilly on 12/08/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

This is usually ECS, but presumably today the guard on the inbound service volunteered to help out.

Realtime Trains | 5H12 2334½ Stockport to Stockport Car. M.D. | 12/08/2023

Real-time train running information for 5H12 2334½ departure from Stockport to Stockport Car. M.D. on 12/08/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[northwichcat]

Very impressive by Northern - running an additional train service to make up for a cancelled XC!

Given how many Manchester Piccadilly services didn't run yesterday across all operators, including Northern, I'm suprised Northern found a crew for that.

The effects of all the morning delays and cancellations could be seen by the early evening. Despite the 16:07 Sheffield to Manchester TPE being cancelled, a 3 car 195 on the 16:14 Sheffield to Manchester had plenty of space and it was a day a lot of hikers had decided to venture out. The 2 car 156 on the 18:10 Manchester to Chester was fairly full from Altrincham but that's a service that would quite often have standing from Altrincham if it's just 2 cars. If people don't make it out in the first place, then they don't need the train to return home.

 

[D6130]

Given how many Manchester Piccadilly services didn't run yesterday across all operators, including Northern, I'm suprised Northern found a crew for that.

Presumably that was due to the trespass incident?

 

[northwichcat]

Presumably that was due to the trespass incident?

I've not seen any report of a tresspass incident and if there was one it didn't delay or cancel consecutive services. Possibly there was one in somewhere like Brough that affected Manchester trains but had no affect on over 95% of services? I'm referring to short notice and on the day cancellations due to driver shortages.

For example:
17:50 to Windermere (Northern) started at Piccadilly instead of commencing from the airport, due to 'short notice change to timetable' causing inbound service to be late.
18:03 to Birmingham (XC) cancelled due to no driver
18:08 from Cleethorpes (TPE) terminated at Piccadilly, instead of continuing to Liverpool due to no driver.
18:25 to Bournemouth (XC) cancelled due to no driver
18:25 from Chester (Northern) cancelled due to 'short notice change to timetable'

Obviously 'short notice change to timetable' means a staff shortage that was already known about the day before.

 

[D6130]

I've not seen any report of a tresspass incident and if there was one it didn't delay or cancel consecutive services. Possibly there was one in somewhere like Brough that affected Manchester trains but had no affect on over 95% of services? I'm referring to short notice and on the day cancellations due to driver shortages.

Sorry....can't do a link, but the Manchester Evening News was reporting yesterday widespread delays and cancellations from Piccadilly and Oxford Road stations due to a trespass incident 'between Manchester Oxford Road and Warrington Central'.

 

[northwichcat]

Sorry....can't do a link, but the Manchester Evening News was reporting yesterday widespread delays and cancellations from Piccadilly and Oxford Road stations due to a trespass incident 'between Manchester Oxford Road and Warrington Central'.

Ah OK. There are only 2 trains per hour from Piccadilly to Warrington Central, so it wouldn't cause a lot of delayed and cancelled services, in the same way an incident at Stockport or Salford would.

 

[D6130]

Ah OK. There are only 2 trains per hour from Piccadilly to Warrington Central, so it wouldn't cause a lot of delayed and cancelled services, in the same way an incident at Stockport or Salford would.

True....but the MEN didn't specify the exact location of the trespass incident. If it had been in the Ordsall Lane or Windsor Bridge areas, it would have had massive implications for a number of routes and their train crew and unit workings.

 

[td97]

There have been 100+ "short notice change to the timetable" daily Northern cancellations during the summer holiday season. However, cancellations are at 6.1% of total services, so still better performing than TPE (11%) and TfW (7%).

P-coded cancellations | ORR Data Portal

dataportal.orr.gov.uk

 

[JD2168]

The 3:31pm Sheffield to Leeds (Dearne Valley Stopper) today was cancelled this afternoon due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time.

Earlier this week on Tuesday & Wednesday the Sheffield to Scarborough via Hull at 9:57am from Sheffield terminated at Hull on both days.

 

[northwichcat]

The 3:31pm Sheffield to Leeds (Dearne Valley Stopper) today was cancelled this afternoon due to more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time.

Most trains wouldn't be out in service on a Sunday, so presumably a train failed and someone selected that reason as the excuse.

 

[dunc695]

Not looking great at Blackpool North this lunchtime, I counted no fewer than 9 cancellations between 10.26am and 13.56pm alone. I've never seen so many cancellations at Blackpool and in peak season!

 

[alansheppard77]

Not looking great at Blackpool North this lunchtime, I counted no fewer than 9 cancellations between 10.26am and 13.56pm alone. I've never seen so many cancellations at Blackpool and in peak season!

its unbelievable,worst than last week during O/T ban,i asked Northern why but no reply

 

[Bletchleyite]

its unbelievable,worst than last week during O/T ban,i asked Northern why but no reply

School holidays, presumably. A lot of staff on holiday and others may not want to work overtime due to e.g. childcare commitments.