Future of Ticket Office Consultations launched

[Egg Centric]

LNER's document states that Edinburgh, Newcastle, York, Doncaster, Peterborough and Kings Cross would retain ticket offices, with those at Berwick, Durham, Darlington, Wakefield Westgate, Retford, Newark Northgate and Grantham closing.

Proposed Ticket Office closures and changes to retailing at our stations

Over the next three years we are committed to investing in our stations – modernising them and making sure they meet the needs of our customers.

www.lner.co.uk

From a glance it seems it's Category A and B stations retaining ticket offices, and everything else to lose them. Pleasantly surprised actually... as I had expected it only to be Category A to keep them!

Not bothered about closing ticket offices per se but they need to make rovers & rangers buyable online (or stop beating about the bush, admit their genuine intention to and abolish them).

 

[Goldfish62]

Having had a read of SWR's consultation document they are planning on closing all ticket offices, including Waterloo, with staffing based on categorisation of stations as follows:
1. Long or 24 hour staffing with staff able to issue full range of tickets. Examples being Waterloo, Ascot, Basingstoke.
2. Multiple staff during staffed hours but not able to sell tickets. Eg, Twickenham, Godalming, Bracknell.
3. One member of staff, very stricted hours, completely unstaffed on some days. Eg, Hampton Wick, Honiton, Earley.
4. Unstaffed as now - no change.

I see Richmond, a Category 1 station is to have 24 hour staffing even though there are no overnight services!

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Avanti one is most unexpected. I thought they would've kept Manchester and Euston at least. Can't say I'm that bothered about Crewe closing as they are never great when I have had to use them in the past.

What would make actual sense would be for the main London termini to have travel assistance centres which can also sell tickets including TfL products. The tourist traffic is significant and that would at least benefit.

Euston booking office isn't that and is a bit useless, to be fair. The only booking office at Euston that was worth using was the old LM one by 8-11, though the wider gateline is probably more use!

This really should be a single national project under GBR, not a load of disparate TOCs seemingly doing very different things, Northern being perhaps the most traditional and Avanti the most drastic. Only WMT and Southeastern appear to be talking about improving the ones they operate into customer service centres, and Chiltern won't even tell us what they are doing!

 

[SuspectUsual]

The following line from the RDG press release is typical of the type of PR we see these days.

"Across the network as a whole, there will be more staff available to give face to face help to customers out in stations than there are today"

There will be more staff available out in stations because they will have been moved there from ticket offices!

Lovely bit of spin. "More staff" is the claim, but they somehow didn't have space to put "fewer hours". Northern's document also used the word "change" every time they actually mean "reduce"

 

[156421]

Hartlepool ticket office is an unusual case... currently closed on Sundays, proposed to open 09:00 to 17:00 on Sundays. What a curiosity.

 

[Alex C.]

Also in the SWR document is the proposal that they will develop a ticket which will allow you to travel to a category 1 station to buy a ticket without being out of pocket - I imagine some sort of permit to travel?

 

[Goldfish62]

Also in the SWR document is the proposal that they will develop a ticket which will allow you to travel to a category 1 station to buy a ticket without being out of pocket - I imagine some sort of permit to travel?

Yes. Kind of speaks volumes about how bonkers the whole thing is.

 

[12LDA28C]

Chiltern's consultation page is now up: https://www.chilternrailways.co.uk/ticketofficeproposals

Bare minimum of information therein, however!

Indeed. Not very helpful!

 

[crablab]

To be fair the GWR one gives details of where they will sell tickets, and claim excesses will still be available on train. It does bring up the interesting question though of what happens if they don’t want to give you one, considering there isn’t an entitlement. Do you have to risk a PF?

Hmm, why do you say 'no entitlement'? It depends on the excess required, but for a change of route there is an absolute right to an excess on-board (NRCoT 13.2).
For overdistance excesses there aren't (NRCoT 13.4) and I'm not sure how those would be handled if there was no reasonable opportunity to buy before boarding.

I appreciate they say these will still be available, but I think the operative bit is for now. The current framework of rights & obligations makes a general assumption that for many journeys there will be an opportunity to pay at some point along the journey. That is no longer the case for a number of, what might be considered, 'edge cases'.

 

[deepeetw]

Having had a read of SWR's consultation document they are planning on closing all ticket offices, including Waterloo, with staffing based on categorisation of stations as follows:
1. Long or 24 hour staffing with staff able to issue full range of tickets. Examples being Waterloo, Ascot, Basingstoke.
2. Multiple staff during staffed hours but not able to sell tickets. Eg, Twickenham, Godalming, Bracknell.
3. One member of staff, very stricted hours, completely unstaffed on some days. Eg, Hampton Wick, Honiton, Earley.
4. Unstaffed as now - no change.

I see Richmond, a Category 1 station is to have 24 hour staffing even though there are no overnight services!

Also worth noting that Category 2 stations (and below) will not be able to sell all ticket types, instead encouraging you to buy online or travel to your nearest Category 1 station (with some kind of cost reimbursement for the journey).

Doesn’t reimburse the time/effort though.

All these staff at non-category 2 stations will be left providing journey advice and helping people use the (poor) interface on the S&B TVMs. Can’t see that lasting longer than the time it takes them to get their “remote video ticketing helpdesk” sorted.

 

[Failed Unit]

LNER's document states that Edinburgh, Newcastle, York, Doncaster, Peterborough and Kings Cross would retain ticket offices, with those at Berwick, Durham, Darlington, Wakefield Westgate, Retford, Newark Northgate and Grantham closing.

Proposed Ticket Office closures and changes to retailing at our stations

Over the next three years we are committed to investing in our stations – modernising them and making sure they meet the needs of our customers.

www.lner.co.uk

From a glance it seems it's Category A and B stations retaining ticket offices, and everything else to lose them. Pleasantly surprised actually... as I had expected it only to be Category A to keep them!

Retford stands out siginificantly from LNER - with 12% of tickets sold from the ticket office considering it is one of LNERs smallest stations. I assume that is because the majority of customers are using the Lincoln - Sheffield service where AP tickets etc are not really available and the journeys are more spontanious.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Seems to me to be a sham consultation. More of a 'fait accompli'. The feedback will either be used (if in favour) to support the decisions that has already been made, or (if not) conveniently ignored.

 

[deltic]

The spin about closing ticket offices and moving staff to concourses/platforms falls flat when you look at the fact that the hours of staffing at many stations is being reduced to less than the hours ticket offices were open. I would be in favour of ticket office closures, if a) ticketing was simplified and b) staff were still present at stations to assist passengers

 

[crablab]

or travel to your nearest Category 1 station (with some kind of cost reimbursement for the journey).

The NRCoT, as stands, would entitle you to board the train and purchase your ticket at the next available opportunity (onboard or at interchanges/destination) if the origin station was unable to sell you a ticket.

There is no provision for the ToC to require travel to arbitrary stations for their convenience.

 

[ainsworth74]

Seems to me to be a sham consultation. More of a 'fait accompli'. The feedback will either be used (if in favour) to support the decisions that has already been made, or (if not) conveniently ignored.

You expected different? They're only doing the consultation because they were required by law to do it. The DfT would have otherwise been very happy for them to just get on with it.

 

[crablab]

ticketing was simplified

As the LNER split ticketing thread and wider rollout of contactless alongside the abolition of Day Travelcards shows, this can be a dangerous wish!

 

[J-2739]

LNER's document states that Edinburgh, Newcastle, York, Doncaster, Peterborough and Kings Cross would retain ticket offices, with those at Berwick, Durham, Darlington, Wakefield Westgate, Retford, Newark Northgate and Grantham closing.

Proposed Ticket Office closures and changes to retailing at our stations

Over the next three years we are committed to investing in our stations – modernising them and making sure they meet the needs of our customers.

www.lner.co.uk

From a glance it seems it's Category A and B stations retaining ticket offices, and everything else to lose them. Pleasantly surprised actually... as I had expected it only to be Category A to keep them!

I think Wakefield Westgate and Darlington - which are losing their offices - are Category B stations? Your point still stands otherwise!

 

[Bletchleyite]

The NRCoT, as stands, would entitle you to board the train and purchase your ticket at the next available opportunity (onboard or at interchanges/destination) if the origin station was unable to sell you a ticket.

There is no provision for the ToC to require travel to arbitrary stations for their convenience.

I don't think that's what it is for, rather it is for additional journeys to go and purchase Advances in, er, advance.

As the LNER split ticketing thread and wider rollout of contactless alongside the abolition of Day Travelcards shows, this can be a dangerous wish!

It can, but it's certainly true that the present system is too complex for a mostly-automated sales approach.

It's slightly ironic that utterly pointless booking offices like that at Aughton Park will remain, but London Euston, quite possibly the most important InterCity station in the country, won't have one!

 

[Purple Train]

What's happening with TfL ticket offices?

 

[kkong]

LNER are proposing, inter-alia, "floor walking", "upskilling" and "answering bespoke questions".

Is there any other type of question which a customer might ask in a station retail situation?

 

[duncombec]

Bit confused about the Southeastern map. It has the "London" ticket office closures in orange, but in Kent at say Folkestone Central nothing is coloured. Does that means the ticket offices at those stations are staying open?

What's the difference between a ticket office and a travel centre?

Ticket Office Consultation | Southeastern

www.southeasternrailway.co.uk

I agree, SouthEastern's is a little confusing. The way I read the introductory fluff is that those "medium" sized stations not yet listed are going to be handled in a second phase of the consultation.

I'm surprised that Rochester is in line for a "travel centre", for example, when it currently has a single-window ticket office that seems to be closed at all convenient moments, and TVMs placed right in the sun. By contrast, Chatham, not in this phase, has a two window ticket-office and three TVMs, and all seem to be busy.

As for the difference... nothing is said. Perhaps that's a way of saying you've closed all of your ticket offices, and your ticket offices you haven't closed are travel centres?

 

[Bletchleyite]

What's happening with TfL ticket offices?

As per Merseyrail, TfW and ScotRail it's up to them, it's not a DfT TOC, thus out of scope of this consultation.

 

[Adsy125]

Surprisingly positive changes from SWR, at least at the stations around me (Southampton - Weymouth). While some stations, like Christchurch, lose their afternoon staffing, others like Weymouth improve quite significantly. Stations like Wareham also keep their ticket office as a "Category 1" station. As long as the hours promised are stuck to I would call the changes a net positive, with some unfortunate loses for stations like Pokesdown.

 

[crablab]

rather it is for additional journeys to go and purchase Advances in, er, advance.

Intriguing. I don't see why a TVM can't do this though!
I wonder if the requirement for ToCs to make tickets available across all channels will change? ie. an Advance moves to being an 'online only' ticket.

It can, but it's certainly true that the present system is too complex for a mostly-automated sales approach.

It's slightly ironic that utterly pointless booking offices like that at Aughton Park will remain, but London Euston, quite possibly the most important InterCity station in the country, won't have one!

I generally agree

 

[Robcuk]

Do we expect a larger number of passengers just not bothering to purchase a ticket and gamble that they'll get away with it. I'm sure the line "sorry, the machine wasn't working" will be used regularly. Imagine 100+ passengers at Euston/Pancras etc.. all saying the same - the gateline staff will end up just letting them through because of overcrowding

 

[scrapy]

The NRCoT, as stands, would entitle you to board the train and purchase your ticket at the next available opportunity (onboard or at interchanges/destination) if the origin station was unable to sell you a ticket.

There is no provision for the ToC to require travel to arbitrary stations for their convenience.

I wouldn't be surprised if there are changes to NRCoT once the ticket office closures have been rubber stamped. I can't imagine these will be in the passengers favour. I would also expect proposals to no longer accept cash within the next 5 years.

 

[James H]

Given that this is a DfT-directed exercise it's surprising that individual TOCs have taken such different approaches, both to the format of the consultation materials and to the substance of the proposals

 

[sor]

Looked at the GWR document for the two Cornish stations I normally use. Both are slated for ticket windows to close and staff redeployed.

Both currently have precisely 1 ticket machine, and there is no indication of adding more or improving their functions to do what the ticket offices currently do. They also admit that advance ticket changes would no longer be possible.

So it all seems as I suspected - quite ill thought out, and (if staff are truly redeployed to platforms, instead of popping outside when a train arrives as they presently do) no real savings to be made?

As for "digital" (I hate that word in the context that it is now used) - GWR still haven't tackled the concept of having all tickets available on smartcard, let alone anything more ambitious...

 

[James H]

It's pleasing that GWR make clear the proposals won't affect access to toilets and waiting rooms - something not make explicit by some TOCs

 

[Geogregor]

I agree, SouthEastern's is a little confusing. The way I read the introductory fluff is that those "medium" sized stations not yet listed are going to be handled in a second phase of the consultation.

I'm surprised that Rochester is in line for a "travel centre", for example, when it currently has a single-window ticket office that seems to be closed at all convenient moments, and TVMs placed right in the sun. By contrast, Chatham, not in this phase, has a two window ticket-office and three TVMs, and all seem to be busy.

As for the difference... nothing is said. Perhaps that's a way of saying you've closed all of your ticket offices, and your ticket offices you haven't closed are travel centres?

The plan is to close all the ticket offices apart from those few designated as "travel centres"

Consultation is obviously a sham. Barely 21 days and dropped unexpectedly. Many people might not be aware about the consultation by the time is over. Which is obiously the whole point.