Rail bosses spend £10,000 a week on flights – because it’s cheaper than trains

[Sniffingmoose]

This is the headline in the independent and the telegraph.

"Network Rail Bosses splashed £10,000-a-week on air fares last year because it worked out cheaper than getting the train. Figures showed that staff at the public body - which owns most of the UK’s railway network - bought 985 plane tickets for flights within the UK. They bought a further 1,622 for international journeys, Freedom of Information data has revealed.
Many of these domestic journeys could have easily been done by rail - outraging green campaigners who pointed out that getting the train is far more environmentally-friendly."

If true, it’s a sorry indictment of the state of rail travel in the UK

Do members think its true?

Not sure about British Railways Board chaiman but in BR days we always travelled on a duty pass but the most we every had to travel for work was never much over 100miles.

Rail bosses spend £10,000 a week on flights – because it’s cheaper than trains

Network Rail Director Michelle Handforth expensed £8,000 worth of domestic flights

www.independent.co.uk

 

[RT4038]

This is the headline in the independent and the telegraph.

If true, it’s a sorry indictment of the state of rail travel in the UK

Do members think its true?

Not sure about British Railways Board chaiman but in BR days we always travelled on a duty pass but the most we every had to travel for work was never much over 100miles.

Rail bosses spend £10,000 a week on flights – because it’s cheaper than trains

Network Rail Director Michelle Handforth expensed £8,000 worth of domestic flights

www.independent.co.uk

It is not a 'sad indictment' . We don't know where Michelle Handforth lives, or where she was going. But if you live in London or even Birmingham, and have to go to Scotland for the day, travelling by train is an exhausting, long trip with little time for meetings. Flying is the obvious choice for such journeys, unless you are an enthusiast and are happy to use up your home time in railway carriages.

 

[johncrossley]

This is the headline in the independent and the telegraph.

If true, it’s a sorry indictment of the state of rail travel in the UK

Do members think its true?

Not sure about British Railways Board chaiman but in BR days we always travelled on a duty pass but the most we every had to travel for work was never much over 100miles.

Rail bosses spend £10,000 a week on flights – because it’s cheaper than trains

Network Rail Director Michelle Handforth expensed £8,000 worth of domestic flights

www.independent.co.uk

It doesn't say that the business travel was by air because it is cheaper. It was to do with the time. So the headline is a lie.

A Network Rail spokesperson told The Independent that it will “always encourage our people to travel by rail, but flying is permitted where elements like time constraints are considered”.

 

[Hadders]

Not a great headline but there's often a bigger picture.

In a former job I had to regularly visit a site in Glasgow. I enjoy travelling by train but going from Stevenage to Glasgow by train meant at least one overnight away and a post 22:00 arrival home the following day. Plus the lost productivity on the train both ways. Before anyone says you can work on the train you can do some work on the train but it's not the same as being in the office.

Easyjet had a 7:30am flight from Luton which meant I could be on site in Glasgow by 10:30am. There was a flight back at 18:00 which meant I could be home by 20:00.

Although I'd prefer to take the train the bigger picture was it was more productive to fly.

 

[RT4038]

Not a great headline but there's often a bigger picture.

In a former job I had to regularly visit a site in Glasgow. I enjoy travelling by train but going from Stevenage to Glasgow by train meant at least one overnight away and a post 22:00 arrival home the following day. Plus the lost productivity on the train both ways. Before anyone says you can work on the train you can do some work on the train but it's not the same as being in the office.

Easyjet had a 7:30am flight from Luton which meant I could be on site in Glasgow by 10:30am. There was a flight back at 18:00 which meant I could be home by 20:00.

Although I'd prefer to take the train the bigger pictire was it was more productive to fly.

Quite, totally agree. You can do some work on the train, but not have a meeting with those based in Scotland whilst travelling there. And if you work hard on the way up, the 4 - 5 hours spent on the way back is pretty dead time due to exhaustion.

 

[jfollows]

Not a great headline but there's often a bigger picture.

I agree.
I didn't work for the railways but in previous jobs I've flown in the UK from Manchester to Exeter, Bristol, Southampton, Norwich, London & Edinburgh for work. I've also been to all of them by train for work, and found these trips preferable in all cases. But requirements placed on me meant I couldn't always do so.
The problem with the public sector is that it might start changing the way it operates "because it looks bad" rather than for better reasons. Headlines like this don't help. It's also part of a general problem in which people arrange unnecessary meetings at silly times and you're expected to attend. I've refused some in the past but there's a limit to how much you can do this.

 

[Starmill]

Senior staff at an orginasation like Network Rail would not be able to confirm their travel arrangements until a few hours before they were preparing to set off, doing so would lead to far more wasted money as travel plans for senior staff have to be flexible. If the staff member needs to make a journey in the early morning from somewhere in the West Midlands to somewhere in Strathclyde, such as Birmingham to Glasgow, then that means either an Off Peak Single or an Advance Single that's only a little bit cheaper. The Off Peak Single is £112.00 for Standard or more realistically for a journey for work of four hours, Standard Premium at £137.00. That's in the same price range as a flight would be the night before or on the morning. Flights often will cost a little bit more than that but not by much. As a result flying is alas the better value option by a long way.

A further point worth nothing is that the 0605 from Birmingham New Street doesn't even go to Glasgow, you must change at Carlisle onto a TransPennine Express service behind to get to Glasgow Central. I don't know if anyone here has actually tried to work on a laptop on a TransPennine Express class 397 in Standard, on a near-full train but it's absolutely not conducive to doing your best work! Also there's a risk of having to stand on the TPE service, and a big risk of it being cancelled. You could wait for the through train leaving Birmingham New Street at 0707, but that means pushing your arrival back almost an hour to 1117.

 

[Clarence Yard]

When FG had Scotrail and I lived in Watford, it was a no brainer to get on the M25 to get the red eye from Heathrow for a meeting and be back at Watford early that evening.

Imagine the time I would have lost going by train. It would have wrecked my work diary for the day before and possibly the day after.

Never had to do any other work journey by air, even the ones to Brussels to visit the Commission. I used Eurostar for those.

 

[islandmonkey]

Just in general, I have places to be and things to do. If the train suits, it suits, and I will use it. If it doesn't, I won't.

Some examples of last mile problems that I can think of are very frustrating, but some are most likely unsolvable and demand that I use the car for the journey. It is what it is.

As for the headline, I immediately doubted its accuracy and it appears to continue the narrative that trains are always expensive and they are never cheap. Really, the headline is saying two things but A does not happen because of B, even if the headline infers that.

 

[The Planner]

We will get headlines that we use open or off peak returns soon instead of advances...

 

[route101]

Colleagues at my place were wanting to get the train to London than fly as it would be more productive. Yet they want to work on the train on a Sunday!

 

[yorkie]

If true, it’s a sorry indictment of the state of rail travel in the UK

Yes it's a sorry state that numerous other countries just got on and built a High Speed network and we've still got a long wait for HS2!

The article says:

Of the internal flights, 72 were between Birmingham and Glasgow which is served by a direct train line with one-way tickets costing up to £206.

If cost is a consideration, they could use the forum's ticketing site; there is no way the one way price would ever be that much, by booking with us!

Yet they want to work on the train on a Sunday!

I'm not the only one doing that then

 

[Route115?]

Yes it is true that Cross Country needs to be FAR better than it is and needs a massive upgrade. However, rail will never be ideal for all long routes, particularly those not to or from London. I suspect that the lack of a high speed network is not really relevant - HS2 will make mainly improve journeys where rail is already competitive. Its the non-London journeys that are the problem. Asking people to spend nights away from home whilst incurring hotel bills isn't really on. I could give you a huge list of improvements that would increase rail market share but most would be car to rail not air to rail.

 

[BlueLeanie]

It's a bit of an unfair headline.

The last direct train from Glasgow to Birmingham is 15:57 in the afternoon. Most evenings there is an EasyJet flight from GLA to BHX between around 19:30 and 20:15, this arrives in to BHX before or within 10 minutes of the 15:57 Avanti Service.

More importantly, people should not be expected to wear hair shirts and put idealistic travel policies over their own life and family.

 

[Bald Rick]

It’s the annual FOI request on the subject, it comes through every year. And it’s always this time of year when it’s “slow news“.

 

[Topological]

There are lots of things to blame rail bosses for but this is not one of them. Some flows are just better served by air for obvious reasons.

 

[yorkie]

It's all about clickbait really; a lot of modern journalism is like that.

 

[Starmill]

Yes it is true that Cross Country needs to be FAR better than it is and needs a massive upgrade. However, rail will never be ideal for all long routes, particularly those not to or from London. I suspect that the lack of a high speed network is not really relevant - HS2 will make mainly improve journeys where rail is already competitive. Its the non-London journeys that are the problem. Asking people to spend nights away from home whilst incurring hotel bills isn't really on. I could give you a huge list of improvements that would increase rail market share but most would be car to rail not air to rail.

It's Avanti West Coast and TransPennine Express mainly rather than CrossCountry in this case, but the same arguments likely apply to all. The services are all expensive and slow.

 

[Parjon]

"As a public body, with understandable restrictions on salary and rewards compared to the private sector, we have to be innovative and flexible in order to secure the services of great people from across the internationally competitive market, as we have done here.”

Utterly insulting to suggest that the meeting attendees they are talking about are even remotely worth the money and perks paid. This nonsense about "international competition for top staff" is betrayed by the consistently poor results they turn out.

Time for a maximum public wage!

 

[Starmill]

Utterly insulting to suggest that the meeting attendees they are talking about are even remotely worth the money and perks paid.

Can you clarify whom you're referring to here please, and explain what their total compensation is? Bear in mind that business travel costs don't form part of your total compensation.

This nonsense about "international competition for top staff" is betrayed by the consistently poor results they turn out.

Again whose results are consistently poor exactly, and in what way?

Time for a maximum public wage!

Are you currently working in the public sector yourself? Can you perhaps give us a bit more detail about how this is going to help, please?

 

[Egg Centric]

"As a public body, with understandable restrictions on salary and rewards compared to the private sector, we have to be innovative and flexible in order to secure the services of great people from across the internationally competitive market, as we have done here.”

Utterly insulting to suggest that the meeting attendees they are talking about are even remotely worth the money and perks paid. This nonsense about "international competition for top staff" is betrayed by the consistently poor results they turn out.

Time for a maximum public wage!

I'm afraid you may find the laws of supply and demand are universal with tosh like that

Network Rail top bods seem massively underpaid to me (they do make more money than me, but they make less total compensation than my CEO with less than 100 staff!)

 

[Mcr Warrior]

The last direct train from Glasgow to Birmingham is 15:57 in the afternoon.

Surprised me that. There are later midweek journey opportunities from Glasgow Central to Birmingham New Street via the WCML, often requiring just a single (same platform) change, but, as you say, nothing direct.

 

[eldomtom2]

And people on this forum act baffled when I say there's a widespread perception of the railways being expensive...

 

[jfollows]

Surprised me that. There are later midweek journey opportunities from Glasgow Central to Birmingham New Street via the WCML, often requiring just a single (same platform) change, but, as you say, nothing direct.

In 1974 the last through train was 17:45 from Glasgow to Birmingham

 

[Dr Hoo]

All this is nothing new whatsoever. When I worked for British Rail in Scotland in the later 1980s and early 1990s (in the 'sector' era) it was often necessary or more efficient to fly, especially to/from Regional Railways' HQ in Birmingham. I hated (and continue to hate) flying but there is a limit to how many sleeper and long day train journeys you can make. It was sometimes necessary to get up at 0430 to catch the first train to London for a late arrival at a 1030 meeting, then have to dash off to catch the 1700 from KIng's Cross, getting home after 2200.

"Oh, you can work on the train." Yeah, right. Nothing like an extra eight hours on the new-fangled laptop. How did we ever manage before they were invented? Just remember to re-charge it during the day.

 

[yorkie]

And people on this forum act baffled when I say there's a widespread perception of the railways being expensive...

Can you back up this claim?

 

[Bevan Price]

Some events need you to be physically at a site, but I wonder how many trips were for face to face meetings that could have been performed equally well - and a lot cheaper - via the internet?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

It is still bad optics in my opinion.

 

[dk1]

Didn’t this story do the rounds just before the pandemic?

 

[Newtraveller58]

When I worked for Network Rail (7+ years ago), I found the most productive means of getting to London for a morning meeting was the sleeper from Glasgow and the 1630 back - although that was better when it delivered a 4 hour 10 min journey when the Virgin WCML timetable was at its best. The sleeper didn’t suit everyone but I found it less disruptive to my life than getting up in the middle of the night to catch a 0600 flight to London!