London Buses Discussion

[Bedford OB]

The SL2 will be pretty slow from Gants Hill through to Barking, via Cranbrook Road and the traffic nightmare of Ilford Lane. I’d have been tempted to route it via the North Circular Road, coming off at both the Ilford and Barking junctions to serve the nearest convenient bus stop (for connections), then straight back on to the A406.

Those junctions are equally horrific and definitey worse than using Cranbrook Road these days. Ilford Lane is just hopeless at all times.

 

[galwhv69]

@Deerfold (sorry for tag, can't quote on mobile). If that's based off bustimes, then it's incorrect 99% of the time unfortunately. For some reason, Reading Buses is often listed as the operator for TfL rail replacement services. 718 is Abellio, 719 is Metroline and 720 is Sullivan Buses

 

[Deerfold]

@Deerfold (sorry for tag, can't quote on mobile). If that's based off bustimes, then it's incorrect 99% of the time unfortunately. For some reason, Reading Buses is often listed as the operator for TfL rail replacement services. 718 is Abellio, 719 is Metroline and 720 is Sullivan Buses

I'm not sure why you can't quote on mobile - I just hit reply.

That does seem odd and is where I got the info.

 

[galwhv69]

I can press the quote and reply button but as soon as I start typing my reply, the blank space just starts multiplying until the page crashes due to too much text in the text box

 

[Busaholic]

Those junctions are equally horrific and definitey worse than using Cranbrook Road these days. Ilford Lane is just hopeless at all times.

I wonder how a journey from Walthamstow to North Woolwich by Superloop will compare timewise with a journey by conventional buses, changing at Stratford. I used to make that journey quite often all the way on the old 69.

 

[PGAT]

Saw a superloop roundel at the Bedford Hall bus stop near West Croydon earlier today

 

[Busaholic]

Saw a superloop roundel at the Bedford Hall bus stop near West Croydon earlier today

Why is SL5 not planned to terminate at West Croydon Bus Station? Not only is it the obvious place to transfer from the SL7 eastbound but would provide direct connection to the SL6, since TfL are insistent on that being included in the Superloop concept. In many ways the SL5 already offers fewer useful links than the other true loopy routes, and is probably the quickest, if not shortest? West Croydon Bus Station is not as full as in times past, so I couldn't agree there's no room for two, say, extra buses to stand.

 

[Goldfish62]

Why is SL5 not planned to terminate at West Croydon Bus Station? Not only is it the obvious place to transfer from the SL7 eastbound but would provide direct connection to the SL6, since TfL are insistent on that being included in the Superloop concept. In many ways the SL5 already offers fewer useful links than the other true loopy routes, and is probably the quickest, if not shortest? West Croydon Bus Station is not as full as in times past, so I couldn't agree there's no room for two, say, extra buses to stand.

Looking at the consultation the interchange point is East Croydon station. The X26 doesn't actually quite make West Croydon Bus Station - it terminates and stands in Wellesley Road.

The bus station is still congested. When a tram is crossing the junction of Station Road and London Road it can cause buses to tail back along Station Road into Wellesley Road. I can understand the reluctance to add another route.

 

[Busaholic]

Looking at the consultation the interchange point is East Croydon station. The X26 doesn't actually quite make West Croydon Bus Station - it terminates and stands in Wellesley Road.

The bus station is still congested. When a tram is crossing the junction of Station Road and London Road it can cause buses to tail back along Station Road into Wellesley Road. I can understand the reluctance to add another route.

Thank you for your explanation - it's been a year or three since I was last in Croydon, though I follow events from afar as best I can through LOTS and another forum. It still seems a shame though that, where possible ( i.e. not North Woolwich or Thamesmead) the connection round the loop can't be made at a bus station where each part terminates and, if sense prevails, officials will be available to offer assistance and advice. It seems Croydon will be the exception, another little nail in the coffin for a place that seems determined to become a shop window for bad governance.

 

[johncrossley]

Obviously Croydon has the benefit of the tram, plus there is no shortage of other buses that can also be used to connect, for free, despite some removal of buses crossing the town centre in recent years.

 

[Goldfish62]

Obviously Croydon has the benefit of the tram, plus there is no shortage of other buses that can also be used to connect, for free, despite some removal of buses crossing the town centre in recent years.

Central Croydon is blessed with an excellent public transport network, including fast trains every few minutes into Central London, even if the bus network is a bit confusing.

 

[Statto]

Central Croydon is blessed with an excellent public transport network, including fast trains every few minutes into Central London, even if the bus network is a bit confusing.

As well as good night bus network Central Croydon has an overnight rail service too, helped by being on the direct line from Central London to Gatwick Airport

 

[heart-of-wessex]

All I know is Reading Buses have the tender, but I'm unaware of any subcontracting.

As galwhv69 mentioned, it was Abellio/Metroline vehicles I observed at Queens Park, a mix of E400 Hybrids, Gemini 2's and some LT's

Thanks for the info though

 

[Bumpkin]

Saw a superloop roundel at the Bedford Hall bus stop near West Croydon earlier today

They have also appeared at the Tenison Way stop at Waterloo in the Russell Square bound stop for the X68/SL6. Haven't checked the Croydon bound stops yet

 

[PGAT]

Briefly walked through Thornton Heath and saw that on two southbound stops the X68 has already been renumbered to SL6

 

[SECR263]

Surely if the super loop is intended to introduce a superior passenger experience, how does calling the X68 SL6 benefit users? It is a niche route with a time table not like any other loop routes. I assume it is to pander to the TFL ego that they have created a super system. I wonder how many will go to an SL6 stop and expect a route with buses on a regular basis having read the TFL blurb. A stop near me on SL6 grandly sports a roundel stuck on the bus shelter roof for about 12 journeys to London only in the morning peak and reverse in evening peak. Style over substance?

 

[telstarbox]

Fair point.

 

[PGAT]

Surely if the super loop is intended to introduce a superior passenger experience, how does calling the X68 SL6 benefit users? It is a niche route with a time table not like any other loop routes. I assume it is to pander to the TFL ego that they have created a super system. I wonder how many will go to an SL6 stop and expect a route with buses on a regular basis having read the TFL blurb. A stop near me on SL6 grandly sports a roundel stuck on the bus shelter roof for about 12 journeys to London only in the morning peak and reverse in evening peak. Style over substance?

Some routes are completely new, some are improvements of existing routes and some are a result of rejigging. That would then leave the X68 as the only express route left in London not part of Superloop, and 9 routes is not as satisfying as 10.

 

[johncrossley]

I think some people are reading too much into the inclusion of the X68 and 607 within the Superloop brand. It is pretty obvious to me that the Superloop idea started as a brand for orbital express routes only, but then it became clear that the two existing express routes would be anomalies as they don't have branding. It was probably then decided it would be better to have all express routes branded. The choice then would have been to have a separate brand for the two existing routes but that might dilute the main Superloop brand. Hence the awkward inclusion of the X68 and 607 into the Superloop brand.

Branding is not an exact science. Even experts don't get it right every time. Many millions have been spent on rebrands in the private sector that are unsuccessful and are sometimes rolled back. The Superloop brand probably has a short shelf life and will probably fade away gradually, even if the new routes continue. There was the Red Express brand on the X43 many years ago, a short-lived limited stop version of the 43 to take advantage of the then new Red Route along the A1.

 

[MPW]

I don't really think the x68 should even exist as a route. It is far faster to go by train. Buses should feed rail/tube, and/or have short enough routes to have more predictable timetables. By the time x68 crosses the river the timetables is pointless.

I know part of the rationale is to offer cheaper alternative for people, which is a much more political nut to crack. I have seen mentioned somewhere here before that raising fares for buses with corresponding reduction in tube fare would create connectivity and rationalisation of public transit. I guess this would have to include greater subsidies for low income passengers to be palatable.

I am all for superloop as a concept as there are no direct rail/tube alternatives for superloop's orbital route.

 

[PGAT]

It's quicker in the portion near to Croydon and Thornton Heath to take the train, but once you go beyond them it's one of the furthest areas in London away from a railway station

 

[MPW]

It's quicker in the portion near to Croydon and Thornton Heath to take the train, but once you go beyond them it's one of the furthest areas in London away from a railway station

I think the best way to improve transit access in that case is to have buses connecting to 2 or 3 of the nearest stations, on a shorter route. Buses are not good for onward connections when the timetable is unreliable (eg a route from Croydon to Russell square).

 

[MCR247]

I think the best way to improve transit access in that case is to have buses connecting to 2 or 3 of the nearest stations, on a shorter route. Buses are not good for onward connections when the timetable is unreliable (eg a route from Croydon to Russell square).

Whilst this is often how transport networks work in other countries, it isn’t how they work here unfortunately. By doing this you’d increase the cost of travelling for affected passengers in a cost of living crisis

 

[Busaholic]

It's quicker in the portion near to Croydon and Thornton Heath to take the train, but once you go beyond them it's one of the furthest areas in London away from a railway station

If you happen to work somewhere in the Holborn area served by the X68 and used to take a train to London Bridge, then a 521 (formerly branded very successfully as a Red Arrow) from its bus station for the rest of the journey, you are now stuffed. The 521 has gone, and the replacement for that part of the route is the 133 being diverted to Smithfield i.e. well short of Holborn. Change to another route there? You used to have the 8,25 and 242. now down to the 8 and even that at a reduced frequency. Yes, you can change to a S.E. train to Waterloo from London Bridge, but I keep reading on the forum how much of a hassle that can be these days. TfL buses are in the biggest mess they ever have been, and it's not all down to money.

P.S. Before I get corrected, yes, the 133 does meet up with the other 'replacement' for the 521 at Smithfield ( the 59), but it's all discouraging and unnecessary.

 

[johncrossley]

Yes, you can change to a S.E. train to Waterloo from London Bridge, but I keep reading on the forum how much of a hassle that can be these days.

How is that a hassle "these days" compared to previous days? The Thameslink Programme has vastly improved this situation. The old platform 6 used to be shared between Southeastern and Thameslink trains, but now Southeastern has two platforms to itself with Thameslink having its own dedicated platform. There used to be very few Thameslink trains in peak through London Bridge because platform 6 was fully utilised by Southeastern trains but now they run roughly every 5 minutes. Far fewer trains terminate at London Bridge now so many trains that used to terminate there continue to City Thameslink via Blackfriars. There are also frequent trains to Cannon Street. Cannon Street and City Thameslink are within short walking distance of much of the eastern part of the 521 route.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jul 2023 ==

the 133 being diverted to Smithfield i.e. well short of Holborn.

I don't get this bit. The 133 starts at Proctor Street (Stop H) and ends at Holborn station (Stop K). It also runs 7 days a week, unlike the old 521.

(Map from bustimes.org)

 

[MasterSpenny]

It has begun, 67001, 67002, 67003, 67005, 67006 and 67011 all out on the 339 finally

 

[Wolfie]

If you happen to work somewhere in the Holborn area served by the X68 and used to take a train to London Bridge, then a 521 (formerly branded very successfully as a Red Arrow) from its bus station for the rest of the journey, you are now stuffed. The 521 has gone, and the replacement for that part of the route is the 133 being diverted to Smithfield i.e. well short of Holborn. Change to another route there? You used to have the 8,25 and 242. now down to the 8 and even that at a reduced frequency. Yes, you can change to a S.E. train to Waterloo from London Bridge, but I keep reading on the forum how much of a hassle that can be these days. TfL buses are in the biggest mess they ever have been, and it's not all down to money.

P.S. Before I get corrected, yes, the 133 does meet up with the other 'replacement' for the 521 at Smithfield ( the 59), but it's all discouraging and unnecessary.

In one breath people complain about the supposedly excessive number of buses running in London (and costs incurred as a result). In the next breath people (some perhaps the same, some not) complain about any steps taken to address that.

 

[MasterSpenny]

It has begun, 67001, 67002, 67003, 67005, 67006 and 67011 all out on the 339 finally

67004 and 67007 have also entered since I posted this

 

[Busaholic]

How is that a hassle "these days" compared to previous days?

I'm going on various comments on this forum, no personal experience. My London days are over, unfortunately. Thameslink is great when all is running smoothly, but quickly descends into chaos when it's not, inevitable really given its complexity now. If only the same traction could be used throughout!

 

[MotCO]

It has begun, 67001, 67002, 67003, 67005, 67006 and 67011 all out on the 339 finally

Are these Switch EV Solos working on Stagecoach routes?