Controversial railway opinions (without a firm foundation in logic..)

[Krokodil]

I do remember seeing "später" a reasonable amount in Germany (but then I see "late" a reasonable amount in the UK!). Often only 4 or 5 mins, though; I never missed any ICE connections during 4 separate visits there from 2009-14.

A decade ago? If you revisit now you may find a very different picture. Half an hour late not unusual.

 

[LYuen]

If the objective of HS2 really is to increase capacity and cost-cutting is required, the effective way to save money is to reduce the speed. Not the fancy 360km/h proposed, with a train loading gauge narrower than the Japanese narrow track gauge metro trains, but a sensible 260-300km/h initially.

If the business stands we can improve the speed by upgrading the infrastructure and through incremental R&D in rolling stock and trackside equipment. This is how the Japanese succeeded in Shinkansen - government invested new Shinkansen lines have a spec of 260km/h, a further speed increase is only proposed after the line has opened.

 

[nw1]

On the subject of HS2, while I support the idea of a Chiltern tunnel for many reasons, once past the Chilterns it shouldn't be placed mostly in cuttings, to give a more interesting experience for the travelling public.

In the absence of such a plan, I can still see a significant market for the "classic" WCML route, for those who don't want their rail experience to be as dull as dishwater.

HSL needn't equal endless cuttings and no view, as those of us who have travelled from Paris to the Marseille area can appreciate.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Unit allocation between the North and South of England should be reversed so that those of us in the North get to enjoy the luxury of half empty 12 coach trains while Londoners have to pile onto a cramped, wheezing, clapped-out 2 coach class 150 for their daily commute!

 

[Krokodil]

If the business stands we can improve the speed by upgrading the infrastructure and through incremental R&D in rolling stock and trackside equipment.

It doesn't work like that. If you don't get the alignment right in the first place then you will never be able to improve it in the future. The alignment is the expensive bit.

Unit allocation between the North and South of England should be reversed so that those of us in the North get to enjoy the luxury of half empty 12 coach trains while Londoners have to pile onto a cramped, wheezing, clapped-out 2 coach class 150 for their daily commute!

I'd love to see that.

 

[nw1]

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Ah ok, thanks. Yes, I recognise those.

 

[43074]

Thameslink usually works pretty well, actually. The issue with it is it doesn't work well during disruption and there aren't enough crew.

It should be easier to close lines and stations rather than subsidising them indefinitely for a couple of trains a day (e.g. Brigg line/Helsby to Ellesmere Port etc)

Ticket office closures aren't a problem in of themselves, the problem is the complexity of the fares system and the fact ticket office closures are being pursued before any attempt at dealing with the fares system.

 

[willgreen]

If the objective of HS2 really is to increase capacity and cost-cutting is required, the effective way to save money is to reduce the speed. Not the fancy 360km/h proposed, with a train loading gauge narrower than the Japanese narrow track gauge metro trains, but a sensible 260-300km/h initially.

If the business stands we can improve the speed by upgrading the infrastructure and through incremental R&D in rolling stock and trackside equipment. This is how the Japanese succeeded in Shinkansen - government invested new Shinkansen lines have a spec of 260km/h, a further speed increase is only proposed after the line has opened.

In fairness (appreciating this is a no logic thread)… higher speed = higher capacity, as you can transport more passengers per hour. Trains can make more journeys in an hour if they’re travelling faster and thus transport more people.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

We should have child/child-free carriages on the intercity trains.

IMX children on trains are much better at behaving with consideration for others than children on railway forums

 

[WAO]

I am convinced of the idea of Range Rover substitution for rail passenger services and would therefore extend PRM regulations to car construction, so that every vehicle of any size has an accessible toilet, automatic doors, wheelchair space, floor level access with the pavement, etc.

In default of that, I would have all footbridges and lifts demolished to let passengers cross the tracks at grade - it seems to work in India.

WAO

 

[Bikeman78]

'Cl 150 are rubbish'

No. they started the sprinterisation of regional railways, they do a mundane but essentail job day after day.

They are great for local trips but, looking at it objectively, not so good on multi hour inter regional journeys with the engines roaring and doors rattling constantly. That said, they have been unphased by the hammering they are getting in their twilight years. Total failures are extremely rare.

 

[HarryF]

Train companies should not employ private security to do any work, the quality of a sizeable proportion of them is dire.

Also, all revenue staff should be forced to undergo a journey on an advance ticket and miss a connection, and when taking the next available train are subjected to Stasi-style questioning. It might make them realise that sometimes such questioning is not necessary.

 

[jfowkes]

The "see it, say it, sorted" thing should stop immediately (in all its forms) and never return.

 

[PGAT]

The "see it, say it, sorted" thing should stop immediately (in all its forms) and never return.

Don’t mind the occasional poster here and there but the announcements are excessive. Are BTP paying all the TOCs or is it some sort of legal requirement?

 

[Bikeman78]

My controversial opinion is that in terms of comfort, the EPB has never been bettered for a suburban commuter train.

Happy memories of belting down the grade from Ockley to Warnham. I can still hear the motor bogie banging from side to side 30 years later! Also loved the way they pulled away from a stand, the motor bogie shot forward and inch or two before the rest of the train caught up.

 

[LYuen]

It doesn't work like that. If you don't get the alignment right in the first place then you will never be able to improve it in the future. The alignment is the expensive bit.

In Japan, the government-funded lines, they choose a maximum curve radius of 4,000m and a designed speed of 260km/h.
Through track upgrades (e.g. sound barriers) and using tilting trains, they have improved the operational speed to 320km/h. 360km/h and beyond is being tested.

 

[Bikeman78]

Networkers are the best trains on the rail network simply because they're the best sounding stock, almost every other EMU produces boring/bland sounds.

Most of the them don't make that sound anymore since the new electronics were installed though. Do the 323s still sound the same? Other trains I can think of are the Jubilee line, Belgian class 1300s and the Dutch VIRM double decker units.

 

[eldomtom2]

Safety culture has gone way too far and we'd be much better off accepting more carnage (and investigating it less, to head off the "but now the WCML is closed for a fortnight" type objections) to make things more affordable.

I see on now reading more of this thread others have made a similar point about the safety culture but I differentiate what I'm saying above by specifically saying we should be prepared to accept more danger if it's cheap

Good luck getting that past the unions and the public.

 

[yorksrob]

Happy memories of belting down the grade from Ockley to Warnham. I can still hear the motor bogie banging from side to side 30 years later! Also loved the way they pulled away from a stand, the motor bogie shot forward and inch or two before the rest of the train caught up.

Yes, they were great when they got the chance for a bit of speed !

 

[Bikeman78]

Certain TfW staff , refer to the much respected 150's as "Rickshaws" (I think)

There's a frequent poster on Facebook that calls them Rickshaws but I've not heard the name anywhere else.

 

[mangyiscute]

I think nationalisation is by far the best way to run the railways since the majority of lines are loss-making, but also provide a crucial service to society as a whole and permit a lot of people to travel who otherwise wouldn't be able to - however, under this current right-wing government, and even under a centralised government if they get into power soon, this will never work, as everyone is way to focused on reducing costs and no one actually sees the societal benefits. Only a left-wing government would be able to properly support the railways and allow them to grow in a way that supports all the people in the country.

Now the truly controversial part - I think a lot of rail enthusiasts are quite right-wing in their political views (as I would expect since there are a lot of enthusiasts who are old white men), but supporting a train system as vast as the UK's is quite a left-wing view. This, therefore, causes confusion and they try to justify right-wing policies such as more extreme privatisation by claiming that it would work on the mainlines, but deep down they know that it would kill off most of the railways in the country.

 

[renegademaster]

Unit allocation between the North and South of England should be reversed so that those of us in the North get to enjoy the luxury of half empty 12 coach trains while Londoners have to pile onto a cramped, wheezing, clapped-out 2 coach class 150 for their daily commute!

Where do northerners get the impression we ride around only in new stock? Southeastern and Southwestern have ancient EMUs , underground even more so. GWR have some bus like DMUs. Southern are all 377s but we're are pretty used to the "oopsie we can only send a 4 car unit to a normally 12 car route"

 

[PGAT]

Unit allocation between the North and South of England should be reversed so that those of us in the North get to enjoy the luxury of half empty 12 coach trains while Londoners have to pile onto a cramped, wheezing, clapped-out 2 coach class 150 for their daily commute!

Rest assured, in West London (pre-Elizabeth line) this was the case!

 

[Meerkat]

You would have to buy up all the new land and actually find fitting routes to go. Alot of new stations nowadays are parkway stations, because there isn't the space to build a line in the town or city centre anymore

Close the lines whilst they are totally rebuilt. Reopen them with new staff on market wages and T&Cs.
Controversial enough?

Unit allocation between the North and South of England should be reversed so that those of us in the North get to enjoy the luxury of half empty 12 coach trains while Londoners have to pile onto a cramped, wheezing, clapped-out 2 coach class 150 for their daily commute!

So the south gets all the new trains in the north and the north gets crush loaded onto ancient tube trains?

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Close the lines whilst they are totally rebuilt. Reopen them with new staff on market wages and T&Cs.
Controversial enough?

So the south gets all the new trains in the north and the north gets crush loaded onto ancient tube trains?

I'd rather travel on an ageing 12 coach train than a full and standing shiny new 195!

Actually that raises another controversial opinion; when TOCs introduce new trains it should be mandatory for them to have at least 50% greater capacity than the trains they're replacing.

 

[Facing Back]

Good luck getting that past the unions and the public.

Just add it to the list of conditions on the pay rise that the unions are not going to agree to and are going to be forced in by the TOCs/NR anyway.

 

[owidoe]

We should scrap every class as it expires, and replace them with two kinds of carriage, one with doors at thirds and one with doors at ends, and two kinds of bimode locomotive, one slow go-anywhere and one fast neo-HST. One class, no catering, no nonsense with pretending the best way to shut doors in 2023 is to have someone stick their head out and look. Lines which can't cope should be replaced with busways.

 

[bussnapperwm]

Controversial opinions? National Express ran the West Midlands franchise better than GoVia or Transport UK Group

 

[Bletchleyite]

They are great for local trips but, looking at it objectively, not so good on multi hour inter regional journeys with the engines roaring and doors rattling constantly. That said, they have been unphased by the hammering they are getting in their twilight years. Total failures are extremely rare.

They're reliable workhorses with a terrible interior. Such a shame the Met Camm 151 didn't prevail.

 

[JamesT]

In Japan, the government-funded lines, they choose a maximum curve radius of 4,000m and a designed speed of 260km/h.
Through track upgrades (e.g. sound barriers) and using tilting trains, they have improved the operational speed to 320km/h. 360km/h and beyond is being tested.

That saves you a small amount on building your new railway, at the cost of much larger ongoing costs to run tilting trains.
360kph isn’t particularly exotic, China have been running at 350kph for a while.