Trainline sold me an invalid ticket. What to do?

[thomasly01]

I bought a return ticket on trainline from stretham hill to leamington spa at 7:17am on a weekday, I then tried to use the ticket at the station and was told it was invalid since it was labelled as an off-peak return. Trainline sold me an off-peak ticket for peak times, and I was then forced to spend another £40 at the station to get another ticket.

I've seen another post about someone having an identical issue with trainline, but I'm wondering what I can do to get some money back.

Oh and I posted the ticket back to trainline 3 weeks ago, and I sent with normal 2nd class postage, but they're telling me they haven't got it and won't refund me without it.

 

[thomasly01]

I'm sure some other members will be along soon with a more useful reply but things like these are why I (and so many others) don't use Trainline.

Yes, I don't think I'll ever be using them again.

Hmm, looking at BR fares I think the ticket for this would've been this

Look up fares for any train journey in Britain

Full details of all British rail Single, Return & Season tickets and Travelcards. Built-in Season Ticket Calculator.

www.brfares.com

Which does indeed not allow departing

• London Euston after 04:29 and before 09:26 or after 15:00 and before 18:45 (Restrictions do not apply on Fridays)

Very confusing why this ticket was issued for those times.

I'm thinking some type of error with trainline's systems, because when I printed the ticket, it said only valid via Banbury despite the fact that the trainline route I was given didn't go through Banbury.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I'm thinking some type of error with trainline's systems, because when I printed the ticket, it said only valid via Banbury despite the fact that the trainline route I was given didn't go through Banbury.

Alright then if it said "Via Banbury" ignore what I've already said since I was assuming it was a different ticket.
I think it was likely to be this ticket in that case:

Look up fares for any train journey in Britain

Full details of all British rail Single, Return & Season tickets and Travelcards. Built-in Season Ticket Calculator.

www.brfares.com

Which simply has the restriction (on the outbound)

Not valid on any Great Western Railway service timed to depart London Paddington after 16:00 and before 19:00.

Which would not have impacted your planned journey literally at all, since for some reason you were sent via Euston on a Via Banbury ticket.
The only place you should've been questioned in this case is anywhere after Euston

 

[thomasly01]

Alright then if it said "Via Banbury" ignore what I've already said since I was assuming it was a different ticket

I was first stopped at Streatham hill station, but at that point I thought it was just a misunderstanding with the officer so I just tapped into the overground with my credit card as I couldn't be bothered to sort it out then. And when I got to Euston and tried to get on the train to coventry, I was outright refused and had to go to the ticket line for almost an hour to buy a ticket for the next train.

 

[Haywain]

I then tried to use the ticket at the station and was told it was invalid since it was labelled as an off-peak return.

At which station did this happen?. Answered as I typed!

 

[Titfield]

Do you have the ticket that you were forced to buy? Perhaps you could use that as a form of proof that the original ticket could not be and was not used?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Do you have the ticket that you were forced to buy? Perhaps you could use that as a form of proof that the original ticket could not be and was not used?

They posted the ticket back to trainline who claim it to have not been received:

I posted the ticket back to trainline 3 weeks ago, and I sent with normal 2nd class postage, but they're telling me they haven't got it and won't refund me without it.

 

[AlterEgo]

The ticket is valid by default as it was sold with an itinerary - which is your contract.

Avanti were legally in the wrong to charge you for the second ticket, and it is the second ticket you should seek a refund for, not the first.

The complaint must be directed at Avanti in the first instance, and Trainline in the second instance.

I'm sure some other members will be along soon with a more useful reply but things like these are why I (and so many others) don't use Trainline.

There is potential for this problem not to be of Trainline's making, but rather one you can replicate on other sites due to an error in the restriction data in the fares database.

 

[Titfield]

They posted the ticket back to trainline who claim it to have not been received:

Thanks. I had thought it was the original ticket the op sent back because that was the invalid ticket but now realise it was the second ticket purchased.

 

[Malaxa]

South West Trains will sell you an advance Senior Railcard discounted ticket online for the period before the discount is valid.

 

[MrJeeves]

There is potential for this problem not to be of Trainline's making, but rather one you can replicate on other sites due to an error in the restriction data in the fares database.

I can't see anything wrong with the data as of today, but there is obviously potential for there to have been an error at the time of purchase.

Assuming the fare is the SVR from Streatham Hill to Leamington Spa (rest. 9I): https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=SRH&dest=LMS&ldn=1&tkt=SVR (edit: it isn't)

Outward Journey​ From​ Until​ Restriction(s) below apply on these days only:​ Wed 23 Aug 2023​ Fri 25 Aug 2023​ Mo Tu We Th​

Not valid to depart​ LONDON EUSTON​ 0430–0925​ on AVANTI WEST COAST​

I recently had a similar experience on LNER where I was forced to buy a new ticket despite strictly following an itinerary by an accredited retailer (also Trainline). TOCs should be telling staff to report such issues to accreditation rather than penalising customers who have, as far as they can see, got valid tickets.

 

[AlterEgo]

South West Trains will sell you an advance Senior Railcard discounted ticket online for the period before the discount is valid.

Senior Railcard time restrictions only apply to journeys wholly within the Network area, though.

I can't see anything wrong with the data as of today, but there is obviously potential for there to have been an error at the time of purchase.

Assuming the fare is the SVR from Streatham Hill to Leamington Spa (rest. 9I): https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=SRH&dest=LMS&ldn=1&tkt=SVR

The OP was sold a via Banbury ticket, which is of course valid only by paying an excess at Euston, but has no restriction from London Euston. Are we sure the restriction was added correctly to the Any permitted in this case?

 

[MrJeeves]

The OP was sold a via Banbury ticket, which is of course valid only by paying an excess at Euston, but has no restriction from London Euston. Are we sure the restriction was added correctly to the Any permitted in this case?

Ah yes, I had missed that post!

 

[Malaxa]

Senior Railcard time restrictions only apply to journeys wholly within the Network area, though.

Indeed - SWT sell Senior Railcard discounted tickets for journeys wholly within the Network starting before the official time for the reduced tickets.

 

[thomasly01]

Do you have the ticket that you were forced to buy? Perhaps you could use that as a form of proof that the original ticket could not be and was not used?

Thanks. I had thought it was the original ticket the op sent back because that was the invalid ticket but now realise it was the second ticket purchased.

Yes I have the second ticket I was forced to buy! It was the original trainline ticket that I returned. So I may have a chance at getting a refund with the replacement ticket that I still have.

 

[AlterEgo]

Yes I have the second ticket I was forced to buy! It was the original trainline ticket that I returned. So I may have a chance at getting a refund with the replacement ticket that I still have.

To be clear, this should come from Avanti, who had no right to charge you for a journey which you had purchased on an accredited site with an itinerary. The ticket was valid by default, for this reason.

 

[thomasly01]

To be clear, this should come from Avanti, who had no right to charge you for a journey which you had purchased on an accredited site with an itinerary. The ticket was valid by default, for this reason.

I've just completed a refund form with Avanti, hopefully they are cooperative.

 

[fandroid]

Indeed - SWT sell Senior Railcard discounted tickets for journeys wholly within the Network starting before the official time for the reduced tickets.

When do you think the "official time" is? For London Terminals as a destination it's often going to be different for different starting points, and dependent on the expected arrival time.

Indeed in part 4 of the conditions for Senior Railcards it states that the starting times for the peak restrictions in the NSE area vary station by station.

And it hasn't been SWT for quite a long time now

 

[thomasly01]

Avanti's Response:

"Thank you for getting in touch with us to request a refund for your ticket. Whatever your reasons for getting a refund, we do our best to help.

As the original ticket was bought from Trainline, the refund for that ticket has to go through them. We have nothing to do with there company and are unable to to deal with any booking made by them, Trainline don't get tickets through our Booking system they have there own so the issue will be with them.

As the ticket bought from the station has been used, we would not be able to refund this ticket. As unused tickets are not refundable per terms and conditions of the ticket you bought.

We appreciate that this may not be the resolution you were seeking, however we hope that you can understand our position on the terms and conditions set to all rail operators.

Thanks for taking the time to contact us.

Kind Regards

Benjamin
Retail Support Advisor
Avanti West Coast"

 

[CyrusWuff]

This was during the Oxford and Aynho Junction blockade, where a Routeing Guide easement put in for CrossCountry (who had replacement buses that didn't call at Oxford or Banbury) caused some journey planners to decide that tickets routed "via Banbury" were valid for travel on Avanti services from Euston.

Streatham Hill made the first mistake, as the (no longer documented) Network Area rule applies to the ticket the OP held, which would have been valid on any train from Marylebone or Paddington.

The relevant restriction code in this case is WZ

 

[ainsworth74]

Avanti's Response:

"Thank you for getting in touch with us to request a refund for your ticket. Whatever your reasons for getting a refund, we do our best to help.

As the original ticket was bought from Trainline, the refund for that ticket has to go through them. We have nothing to do with there company and are unable to to deal with any booking made by them, Trainline don't get tickets through our Booking system they have there own so the issue will be with them.

As the ticket bought from the station has been used, we would not be able to refund this ticket. As unused tickets are not refundable per terms and conditions of the ticket you bought.

We appreciate that this may not be the resolution you were seeking, however we hope that you can understand our position on the terms and conditions set to all rail operators.

Thanks for taking the time to contact us.

Kind Regards

Benjamin
Retail Support Advisor
Avanti West Coast"

Not entirely surprising. You need to write back, I would suggest in the format of a complaint, and explain calmly and clearly that their reply is wrong. You were following an itinerary sold by reputable site and as it was Avanti staff who incorrectly insisted on the purchase of an unnecessary ticket it is Avanti who need to refund you. Please and thank you.

 

[Class800]

https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=SRH&dest=LMS&rte=267&ldn=1&tkt=SVR indicates no morning peak restriction. Off-peak can mean different things and staff really should check the restriction code carefully before raising any issues, but in reality too often they fail to do so. The ticket was valid. So, the issue is with Avanti. I'd say write to their customer services department rather than using the refund form. So you can explain the issue and also their inadequate response.

 

[AlterEgo]

This was during the Oxford and Aynho Junction blockade, where a Routeing Guide easement put in for CrossCountry (who had replacement buses that didn't call at Oxford or Banbury) caused some journey planners to decide that tickets routed "via Banbury" were valid for travel on Avanti services from Euston.

Streatham Hill made the first mistake, as the (no longer documented) Network Area rule applies to the ticket the OP held, which would have been valid on any train from Marylebone or Paddington.

The relevant restriction code in this case is WZ

So nothing to do with Trainline at all. But that’s helpful to know and the OP should include that in their complaint to Avanti. Hopefully this will result in the appropriate refund as well as a reply which doesn’t confuse there and their!

 

[Watershed]

Avanti's Response:

"Thank you for getting in touch with us to request a refund for your ticket. Whatever your reasons for getting a refund, we do our best to help.

As the original ticket was bought from Trainline, the refund for that ticket has to go through them. We have nothing to do with there company and are unable to to deal with any booking made by them, Trainline don't get tickets through our Booking system they have there own so the issue will be with them.

As the ticket bought from the station has been used, we would not be able to refund this ticket. As unused tickets are not refundable per terms and conditions of the ticket you bought.

We appreciate that this may not be the resolution you were seeking, however we hope that you can understand our position on the terms and conditions set to all rail operators.

Thanks for taking the time to contact us.

Kind Regards

Benjamin
Retail Support Advisor
Avanti West Coast"

"Unused tickets are not refundable"... goodness me, anyone whose grasp of the most basic elements of ticket conditions is so poor has no job in a customer-facing role!

They are wrong and you should reply asking to raise this as a complaint (this gets the ball rolling on being able to take the matter further).

Explain that you were travelling in accordance with the itinerary you were given by The Trainline, and that you were wrongly charged for a new ticket because you were contractually entitled to travel in accordance with it. Therefore you are requiring a refund of the new ticket that you were wrongly charged for.

Let's see what they come back with - I'm afraid my recent experience of Avanti customer services has been one of utter incompetence, even if the replies are reasonably quick

 

[Titfield]

So nothing to do with Trainline at all. But that’s helpful to know and the OP should include that in their complaint to Avanti. Hopefully this will result in the appropriate refund as well as a reply which doesn’t confuse there and their!

I have given up correcting grammar in "official correspondence" as I have been accused of being overly pedantic as the meaning, even though a word was spelled incorrectly, was clear.

 

[thomasly01]

Ok I have sent back a response basically stating all of the points that everyone has said so far, and stating that I want to raise it to a complaint. I'll file a separate complaint if that doesn't go anywhere.

 

[Malaxa]

When do you think the "official time" is? For London Terminals as a destination it's often going to be different for different starting points, and dependent on the expected arrival time.

Indeed in part 4 of the conditions for Senior Railcards it states that the starting times for the peak restrictions in the NSE area vary station by station.

And it hasn't been SWT for quite a long time now

I was leaving London and the ticket wouldn't open the gates...

 

[Haywain]

Streatham Hill made the first mistake, as the (no longer documented) Network Area rule applies to the ticket the OP held, which would have been valid on any train from Marylebone or Paddington.

Streatham Hill were wrong because the restriction code does not impose any restriction on travelling from that station. The Network Rule no longer exists, as it is not documented, and cannot therefore be relied upon as the reason for the ticket's validity.

 

[AlterEgo]

I was leaving London and the ticket wouldn't open the gates...

That doesn't really mean anything though, this can happen for myriad reasons not connected to validity.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

That doesn't really mean anything though, this can happen for myriad reasons not connected to validity.

Yes ticket gates are annoying, Wigan Wallgate's always denies my through tickets