Antisocial behaviour on trains

[Peter0124]

It is really sad if the consideration/empathy in society is actually declining.

 

[Howardh]

It's bad, but even worse are in Spain Spanish buses have radio playing over the bus speakers; and that's crept into some UK buses to (yes, Vision, I mean you). Someone using a phone to create noise - you still ahve the option of moving (or playing yours louder) but this creep of musak everywhere has to be stiooed, in my opinion anyway! How long before trains have loud adverts over the speakers??

 

[GN Boy]

Quite often, the loudest in our society will choose to sit behind the driver. I tend to stick on the loud in-cab air conditioning, but have also told passengers to leave the train for just being beyond ridiculous with their noise levels.

 

[tgsh2011]

No. Not only is it become a widespread problem but so is the entitled attitude.

On one occasion I determined to join in instead of arguing. They put tik tok on, so I put my stuff on. They put their volume up and so did I. In the end I couldn't hear my science lecture (although could read the subtitles) and he couldn't hear his moronic Tim tok videos. He packed it in then.

Playing stuff out loud is not only rude, it's a nonsense. And shows how badly the collective intellect has been degraded.

LOL! I adopted that approach on the DLR last year. A guy was playing his music loudly for all to "appreciate". My response was to play the National Anthem even louder. It is getting ridiculous. Seems to me many parents now feel it is acceptable and reasonable to entertain their brood similarly.

 

[Sussex Ben]

This thread reminds me of a train I was a few years ago when I was joined by an older teenager on the train to work one morning. She sat down at the table next to me and started watching some sort of video at a high volume, so I few minutes later I asked if she'd mind turning it down a bit. Response was (and I quote): "F*** off, I can do what I want". As I'd forgotten my headphones that morning I tolerated the noise for the next 20mins or so before she got off - annoyingly as she was getting ready to get off the train she pulled out her headphones and put them on!

The general behaviour on trains also makes it difficult to ensure the next generation are brought up a bit better. I was on a southbound Gatwick Express with the family (including kids aged 5 and 2) over the summer holidays, and I'm always very clear with them that they need to behave and not make too much noise or I won't take them on the train again for a while. As a result they're normally very well behaved. Unfortunately on this particular service I had to endure 45 mins of racket all the way down - firstly from a noisy hen party going to Gatwick, then a group of teenagers who boarded at Gatwick heading to Brighton spent the journey shouting to each other so they could be heard over the noise their phones were making. When behaviour like this occurs it makes it very difficult to explain to my kids why they need to behave when no one else is!

Downside is that this kind of stuff makes me more likely to drive everywhere, which I don't like doing (especially as a rail employee), but sometimes it's better for the keeping of one's sanity...

 

[dingdinger]

It's a pity the guards are too intimidated, or powerless, to ask miscreants to behave. I've seen guards walk right past people with their feet blatantly on a seat and say nothing.

I've seen guards tell people to take their feet off. Then when they're gone the feet are back on. It's a pointless exercise when the guard can't really do anything. Some people will do what they want, when they want.

 

[Kite159]

It's bad, but even worse are in Spain Spanish buses have radio playing over the bus speakers; and that's crept into some UK buses to (yes, Vision, I mean you). Someone using a phone to create noise - you still ahve the option of moving (or playing yours louder) but this creep of musak everywhere has to be stiooed, in my opinion anyway! How long before trains have loud adverts over the speakers??

Please don't give Khan any more ideas on how to generate revenue for TfL.

Antisocial behaviour should have zero tolerance. Caught with feet on the seat, automatic £100 fine and removal from the train at the next station (with any ticket held marked void). Vapping on board has the same punishment. Same as on buses. Enforced by both plain clothed & uniformed bylaw enforcement officers.

 

[Robin Edwards]

Whilst not disagreeing with the above, there’s been a massive slide in respect for “people in authority” over the last 25 years.

I'm from an age where stepping out of line at school meant physical corrective action taken by the person in authority which is now common assault. When parents found out that their son had stepped out of line, it would often be met by another act of common assault whilst in modern times, parents will often get physical against the teacher.

I don't condone assault of minors or adults but would say that parenting has changed a lot in my lifetime and children are often now allowed the freedom to do as they want without consideration once afforded to those around them.

 

[185]

For an documentary explaining the modern world to us dated neanderthals, please refer to ITV World In Action's Idiocracy (2007). It roughly explains how we got here albeit 480 years earlier than anticipated.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

A good few years ago, I politely explained to a young woman that it was not very considerate to put her feet up and place dirty shoes on the opposite seat. I said there might be a day when you’re going to a party or an interview and you arrive with someone’s boot prints on the back of your dress.
The chavvy mother weighed-in and said ‘she can do what she likes, it’s a free country, it’s none of your f**king business’.
At that time, I was too flabbergasted to offer any argument. I’d react differently today

 

[bramling]

A good few years ago, I politely explained to a young woman that it was not very considerate to put her feet up and place dirty shoes on the opposite seat. I said there might be a day when you’re going to a party or an interview and you arrive with someone’s boot prints on the back of your dress.
The chavvy mother weighed-in and said ‘she can do what she likes, it’s a free country, it’s none of your f**king business’.
At that time, I was too flabbergasted to offer any argument. I’d react differently today

Not so many years ago, the right person could have got away with a response along the lines of “you will remove your shoes from the seat now, or it will be done for you”, and carry it through to actions. Unfortunately this sort of thing is less feasible nowadays.

Staff can do a bit more in certain situations, but are still hamstrung. Those that make a nuisance of themselves immediately behind the driver are a little easier to deal with, the driver has the ultimate weapon that the train won’t be going anywhere with them on it.

 

[Mojo]

It's bad, but even worse are in Spain Spanish buses have radio playing over the bus speakers; and that's crept into some UK buses to (yes, Vision, I mean you). Someone using a phone to create noise - you still ahve the option of moving (or playing yours louder) but this creep of musak everywhere has to be stiooed, in my opinion anyway! How long before trains have loud adverts over the speakers??

The Class 323s in the West Midlands had TVs and speakers fitted back in Central Trains days, these displayed news/weather updates as well as adverts both on screen and played in speakers set on the underside of the overhead luggage racks. They were from a company called "360 Onboard," and you can find further details if you search that term online. Unfortunately I can't find any videos of photos though.

 

[BJames]

Definitely people barging on to trains before people get off is a real bugbear of mine. I think it is one of the few behaviours though that is quite widely frowned upon; every time I have seen someone do this they get some dirty looks from those surrounding them.

It's a shame that train companies can't use jamming technology to block this sort of thing. I would actually pay more money to travel on a train in which it was physically impossible to get any kind of internet signal at all.

Take a trip up the Midland Mainline on a Class 222 and it's the closest thing you'll get! They notoriously struggle for signal (although I am sometimes able to get decent coverage on some sections).

 

[Thirteen]

I'm from an age where stepping out of line at school meant physical corrective action taken by the person in authority which is now common assault. When parents found out that their son had stepped out of line, it would often be met by another act of common assault whilst in modern times, parents will often get physical against the teacher.

I don't condone assault of minors or adults but would say that parenting has changed a lot in my lifetime and children are often now allowed the freedom to do as they want without consideration once afforded to those around them.

I'm honestly glad that caning and smacking is banned because it doesn't always solve the problem.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Yes, agree that behaviour and respect for authority has declined, not just on trains but on buses as well, with drivers and conductors not bothering to enforce the rules for various reasons documented elsewhere in the thread. I’ve noticed when the bus gets full I see more and more people standing on the top deck on double deckers, as well as standing/sitting on the stairs, neither of which is allowed, and nothing is done, yet if the bus had to make an emergency stop and the person on the stairs fell down and was injured, no doubt they’d be the first to complain.

Sitting on the stairs is a good bit more comfortable than standing (speaking from experience).
Was useful on a school bus since I knew when people would get off anyway so I knew I had at least like 15 minutes before I had to let anyone past.
Different drivers enforced the rules differently, some wouldn't move an inch if people were stood up on the top deck, some would go 41mph in a 30mph zone.

As long as anyone sat/stood on the stairs lets people past easily then I don't see how that's antisocial, I just want to sit down.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sitting on the stairs is a good bit more comfortable than standing (speaking from experience).
Was useful on a school bus since I knew when people would get off anyway so I knew I had at least like 15 minutes before I had to let anyone past.
Different drivers enforced the rules differently, some wouldn't move an inch if people were stood up on the top deck, some would go 41mph in a 30mph zone.

Not permitting standing upstairs isn't about the people falling over, it's about making the bus too top-heavy so *it* falls over. Thus it's important that it is enforced.

 

[bramling]

The Class 323s in the West Midlands had TVs and speakers fitted back in Central Trains days, these displayed news/weather updates as well as adverts both on screen and played in speakers set on the underside of the overhead luggage racks. They were from a company called "360 Onboard," and you can find further details if you search that term online. Unfortunately I can't find any videos of photos though.

I remember the TV screens on the Central Trains class 323s. It was horrific. ISTR they were only operational when the units were on Cross City work, thankfully (IME at least).

 

[Thirteen]

Not permitting standing upstairs isn't about the people falling over, it's about making the bus too top-heavy so *it* falls over. Thus it's important that it is enforced.

People standing on the top deck of a bus is a real bugbear of mine, I find it's usually tourists who don't listen to the 'no standing on the stairs or upper deck please' announcements.

Going back to the point about swinging on the handrail, would it awful to say to the person if they fell over due to doing it that it served them right?

 

[BeijingDave]

For an documentary explaining the modern world to us dated neanderthals, please refer to ITV World In Action's Idiocracy (2007). It roughly explains how we got here albeit 480 years earlier than anticipated.

The Trap (3 parter, all on YouTube) by Adam Curtis is a superb documentary about the atomisation of society.

Part 1 called, fittingly, 'F*ck you, buddy'

 

[Purple Train]

I think it's not necessarily impoliteness in all cases - in some it could just be declining awareness of the amount of noise one is making. I have the loveliest bunch of friends, and they're all extremely polite and helpful (can't speak for myself, but I like to think they're rubbing off on me ), but we are all quite musical. Last time a group of us travelled together (five of us), the other four were singing a sea shanty for about five minutes of the journey. Lovely as their singing is, it was a bit loud. I'm sure they'd have stopped if asked, but it does go to show how the playing of music out loud isn't necessarily out of the selfishness of the player's own heart.

I agree that part of the trouble is that nobody will challenge anyone for fear of retribution, unless size is on your side. I know for definite that I won't challenge anyone my age for fear of what they might be carrying, and the only times I've ever challenged anyone older than me is over reservations. In my example, while I know that we are all decidedly respectable, a fellow passenger isn't to automatically know that, especially if though we all look like (and indeed are) frightening oddballs

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think it's not necessarily impoliteness in all cases - in some it could just be declining awareness of the amount of noise one is making. I have the loveliest bunch of friends, and they're all extremely polite and helpful (can't speak for myself, but I like to think they're rubbing off on me ), but we are all quite musical. Last time a group of us travelled together (five of us), the other four were playing (and singing along to) a sea shanty for about five minutes of the journey. Lovely as their singing is, it was a bit loud. I'm sure they'd have stopped if asked, but it does go to show how the playing of music out loud isn't necessarily out of the selfishness of the player's own heart.

As long as the singing was nice and not "football crowd" it may not actually have annoyed anyone. There's something specifically annoying about something being played out loud that you can't hear properly - the ear naturally tries to hear it. That's true of "tss tss tss" from headphones as well, though that's been a lot less common since the "rubber gasket" type became the norm because they don't leak very much unlike older designs.

Having said that, it does, however nice they might otherwise be, show a lack of awareness of others. In public places, one's first thought before doing something should be "will this upset or disadvantage someone else". We do seem to have lost that a bit, even among the nicest people.

 

[Purple Train]

As long as the singing was nice and not "football crowd" it may not actually have annoyed anyone. There's something specifically annoying about something being played out loud that you can't hear properly - the ear naturally tries to hear it. That's true of "tss tss tss" from headphones as well, though that's been a lot less common since the "rubber gasket" type became the norm because they don't leak very much unlike older designs.

No, it wasn't football crowd.

Having said that, it does, however nice they might otherwise be, show a lack of awareness of others. In public places, one's first thought before doing something should be "will this upset or disadvantage someone else". We do seem to have lost that a bit, even among the nicest people.

Oh absolutely. I'm not trying to defend it, just offer an explanation "from the other side" so to speak. We got to know each other through online school classes during lockdown, so I suspect that may have a part to play as you don't have to worry about noise when you're sharing music over Zoom!

 

[trebor79]

This thread reminds me of a train I was a few years ago when I was joined by an older teenager on the train to work one morning. She sat down at the table next to me and started watching some sort of video at a high volume, so I few minutes later I asked if she'd mind turning it down a bit. Response was (and I quote): "F*** off, I can do what I want". A

I think my response to that would have been to take the device off her and turn it off, and told her "I can do what I want" when the inevitable complaint was made.

25 years ago I was sat in the quiet coach of an HST. A lady got on and sat behind me. She then informed me and a few other people that she would be conducting some telephone interviews. I endured one banal interview, then told her that perhaps it would be better if she went into the vestibule or another coach "But it's too noisy in the other coaches". I suggested her phone might end up tossed out of the droplight depending upon how irritated I got. She didn't move but nor did she conduct any further interviews.

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

I think it's not necessarily impoliteness in all cases - in some it could just be declining awareness of the amount of noise one is making. I have the loveliest bunch of friends, and they're all extremely polite and helpful (can't speak for myself, but I like to think they're rubbing off on me ), but we are all quite musical. Last time a group of us travelled together (five of us), the other four were playing (and singing along to) a sea shanty for about five minutes of the journey. Lovely as their singing is, it was a bit loud. I'm sure they'd have stopped if asked, but it does go to show how the playing of music out loud isn't necessarily out of the selfishness of the player's own heart.

Indeed, I had a charity choir board one evening on a train out of Waterloo last Christmas. Whilst I don't condone unnecessary noise, in this exceptional case it was genuinely a really nice atmosphere onboard.

Everyone had their phones out recording and seemed to be enjoying the performance - it certainly put a smile on my face after a long day.

Was it everyone's cup of tea? Probably not. But were they doing it maliciously? No, of course not.

Whilst I do possess a loathsome amount of detest for videos, phone calls, etc. being (antisocially) broadcast to the train, on this occasion I thought it made a nice change from the usual miserable commute and didn't feel like bashing my head against the wall.

 

[Purple Train]

Indeed, I had a charity choir board one evening on a train out of Waterloo last Christmas. Whilst I don't condone unnecessary noise, in this exceptional case it was genuinely a really nice atmosphere onboard.

Everyone had their phones out recording and seemed to be enjoying the performance - it certainly put a smile on my face after a long day.

Was it everyone's cup of tea? Probably not. But were they doing it maliciously? No, of course not.

Whilst I do possess a loathsome amount of detest for videos, phone calls, etc. being (antisocially) broadcast to the train, on this occasion I thought it made a nice change from the usual miserable commute and didn't feel like bashing my head against the wall.

That reminds me of when I was travelling across London for an art project and then out to Essex, and I really hadn't allowed sufficient time in London. I was virtually curled up in my seat, and feeling very sorry for myself, when on comes a primary school class, no older than year 2, at West Drayton. Great, I think, cue an unmanageable amount of noise... until they all took out their music books and began a beautiful rendition of the John Rutter arrangement of "For the Beauty of the Earth". They were off to a competition at St Paul's. Just what I needed!

I also remember seeing a classical orchestra performing on the footbridge at Reading, near Platform 15. Unfortunately I had a tight change - but it sounded glorious!

(I might also add a correction in my example - there wasn't actually music being played; they were singing a cappella.)

 

[Deepgreen]

I'm honestly glad that caning and smacking is banned because it doesn't always solve the problem.

Especially on trains, as someone always objects...

 

[trainophile]

Another thing that illustrates the same sort of attitude to others is cycling on pavements. Everyone seems to do it these days, and not with any sense of caution either, they whizz past nearly taking your arm off.

 

[Kite159]

Another thing that illustrates the same sort of attitude to others is cycling on pavements. Everyone seems to do it these days, and not with any sense of caution either, they whizz past nearly taking your arm off.

Not only on pavements but on mixed used paths like canal towpaths. Whizz past like they are trying to set a new world record and get annoyed if they have to slow down due to the path being "busy"

 

[gazzaa2]

Its a selfish 'me me me' society these days.

I wonder whether half the problem is that a few years ago Apple (and probably their Android competitors) stopped putting 3.5mm headphone sockets on their phones - and stopped including a set of earphones with each phone. Everytime I see this behaviour I curse Apple and Tim Cook.

The OP was quite right and not a bit unreasonable.

It mostly stemmed from there and then it became normalised.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

I think it's not necessarily impoliteness in all cases - in some it could just be declining awareness of the amount of noise one is making. I have the loveliest bunch of friends, and they're all extremely polite and helpful (can't speak for myself, but I like to think they're rubbing off on me ), but we are all quite musical. Last time a group of us travelled together (five of us), the other four were singing a sea shanty for about five minutes of the journey. Lovely as their singing is, it was a bit loud. I'm sure they'd have stopped if asked, but it does go to show how the playing of music out loud isn't necessarily out of the selfishness of the player's own heart.

I agree that part of the trouble is that nobody will challenge anyone for fear of retribution, unless size is on your side. I know for definite that I won't challenge anyone my age for fear of what they might be carrying, and the only times I've ever challenged anyone older than me is over reservations. In my example, while I know that we are all decidedly respectable, a fellow passenger isn't to automatically know that, especially if though we all look like (and indeed are) frightening oddballs

The person I challenged about playing his videos on speakerphone was a lot taller (and wider) than me, but it didn’t even occur to me not to say something. I must have assumed his mature age would mean the risk of violence was not there, even if his behaviour was that of an immature teenager!