Group Stations

[spasmj]

In the case where a ticket is bought with an origin or destination as a group station (NOT just a routeing point group member) e.g. "Bradford Stations" is there a requirement to travel from the station in the group which would provide the shortest route?

NRES seems to suggest that there isn't and as far as I can understand the routeing guide is not exactly clear on this situation.

For example:

e.g Bradford Stations-LDS Off peak day return is £3.90

NRES suggests that:
Bradford Stations-NPD Off peak day return is £2.00
is valid for travel from BDQ via LDS (being the shortest route from BDQ) as well as the 'normal' BDI-NPD.

NRES also suggests that this sort of routeing is acceptable for other Group Stations (with xxx stations tickets) which I have tried.

 

[clagmonster]

In that case, in the case of the Bradford-Pudsey example, unless National Rail tell you to buy two tickets (it sometimes does this after you ask to check fares), it is wrong.

Permitted routes are defined in the National Routeing Guide and are not neccessarily the shortest route. The Routeing Guide can be found here:
http://www.atoc.org/about-atoc/rail-settlement-plan/routeing-guide

In your examples, Leeds-Bradford is valid via both routes (Shipley and Pudsey).
Bradford-New Pudsey is valid only out of Interchange.

 

[spasmj]

In that case, in the case of the Bradford-Pudsey example, unless National Rail tell you to buy two tickets (it sometimes does this after you ask to check fares), it is wrong.

Permitted routes are defined in the National Routeing Guide and are not neccessarily the shortest route. The Routeing Guide can be found here:
http://www.atoc.org/about-atoc/rail-settlement-plan/routeing-guide

In your examples, Leeds-Bradford is valid via both routes (Shipley and Pudsey).
Bradford-New Pudsey is valid only out of Interchange.

Thanks for the reply. I am aware of the routeing guide and that permitted routes don't necessarily have to be the shortest. No the situation here does not require multiple tickets.

I'm not sure that your answer really addresses the question though. As I understand it tickets are always valid for the shortest route (unless the ticket itself has route restrictions). The shortest route from BDQ to NPD is via LDS.
So the question is, does the fact that it's a 'Bradford Stations' ticket require you to travel from BDI.

If I accept your answer that NRES is wrong, then it is wrong every ticket that I've checked in this sort of situation. (which is many > 20). I don't mind that being the case, however I'd really like someone to try and explain with reference to text in the routeing guide rules pdf exactly what the rules are in this situation.

Thanks again.

 

[clagmonster]

ATOC clarified in a letter to Clive Feather that in some cases the shortest route may require a walk, which counts as 0 miles, so from Bradford Forster Square the shortest route would be to walk to Interchange on a New Pudsey ticket.

 

[spasmj]

ATOC clarified in a letter to Clive Feather that in some cases the shortest route may require a walk, which counts as 0 miles, so from Bradford Forster Square the shortest route would be to walk to Interchange on a New Pudsey ticket.

Thanks, that makes sense. If that is the rule it really should be in the routeing guide. The routeing guide instructions pdf contains no instances of the words "walk" or "walking" :roll:

It must therefore be unenforceable (especially given what NRES thinks).

Interestingly (though unrelated) the routeing engines used by NRES/TOCs use a table of the primary stations within each Routeing Point Group - this table isn't made available as part of the routeing guide.

I'm midway through writing a routeing engine so I'm trying to get as much clarification on ambiguous rules as possible. Thanks for your help.

 

[John @ home]

ATOC clarified in a letter to Clive Feather that in some cases the shortest route may require a walk, which counts as 0 miles

On this subject, the only clarification I'm aware of from ATOC to Clive Feather is question 9 here and ATOC's reply here.

31 July 1998

Can a journey involve a walk between stations? For example, map WA includes both Hertford East and Hertford North, on different lines. Would it be legitimate to travel from Cambridge to London via Stevenage, Hertford North, Hertford East, and then Broxbourne? Or, for that matter, via Stansted Airport, Broxbourne, Hertford East, Hertford North, Stevenage, and then Welwyn? Does it matter if the stations involved are in the same group or not?

25 September 1998

Some journeys must involve a walk between stations; for example, the fare from Watford Junction to Harpenden is routed "St Albans Abbey" - this must involve a walk between St Albans Abbey and St Albans. As regards permitted routes in the Routeing Guide, there is nothing to prevent a customer using a route that involves a walk between stations (one is not breaking the "no doubling back" rule by doing this).

http://www.rossrail.co.uk/central/routeqn1.html

This example remains accurate, but has very limited application elsewhere. It is not physically possible to travel from Watford Junction to Harpenden via St Albans Abbey without doubling back, other than by walking (or travelling by another means not covered by the rail ticket) between St Albans Abbey and St Albans.

This is in contrast with a journey from Bradford Forster Square to New Pudsey. My calculation of permitted routes for this journey is:

• Bradford Forster Square is a member of Bradford Group Routeing Point.
• Routeing Points for New Pudsey are Bradford Group and Leeds Group.
• Therefore Bradford Forster Square and New Pudsey have a Routeing Point in common - Bradford Group.
• There are no relevant Easements.
• Therefore the permitted route is direct via the shortest distance from the origin to the destination over which a regular scheduled passenger train service operates. (Instructions Step 3.)
• This allows Bradford Forster Square - Frizinghall - Shipley - Leeds - Bramley (W Yorks) - New Pudsey.
• In addition, if there is a common routeing point, the permitted route is the shortest route or a route which is longer by no more than 3 miles. (NRG in Detail Page F7).
• This allows Bradford Forster Square - Frizinghall - Shipley - Baildon - Guiseley - Leeds - Bramley (W Yorks) - New Pudsey.

There are therefore two permitted routes wholly by rail for this journey.

These examples have strengthened my opinion that a ticket to or from a station group is not limited to mapped routes, nor to the station within the group which makes the journey have the shortest length. My view is that that a ticket to or from a station group may be used to or from any individual station within that group for which a permitted route exists for the journey on the ticket.

 

[Paul Kelly]

Interestingly (though unrelated) the routeing engines used by NRES/TOCs use a table of the primary stations within each Routeing Point Group - this table isn't made available as part of the routeing guide.

I think the biggest issue there is that it isn't obvious from what appears on a ticket (or indeed from anything in the fares database) whether the route shown on a ticket refers to a specific station, or a routeing guide group. There was quite a long thread about this a while ago about whether route Birmingham tickets were valid on WSMR services that passed through stations in Birmingham routeing guide group, but not Birmingham fares group.

Regarding the stations that you must walk between, I wonder if they are defined in the "fixed link file" referred to in RJIS document rsps5001.pdf (timetable information). Strange that they are not included in the routeing guide specification (sp0037.pdf) though.

 

[clagmonster]

John, I believe that is the letter I was thinking of, so no this does not suggest the shortest route may have to involve a walk.

If the origin on the ticket was specifically 'Bradford F Sq' I would probably agree with you. As it stands, the origin is Bradford Yk Stations. The shortest route from Bradford Yk Stations is out of Interchange. The question is, how is the origin defined. Is it actually worth asking ATOC for the official view?

 

[spasmj]

I think the biggest issue there is that it isn't obvious from what appears on a ticket (or indeed from anything in the fares database) whether the route shown on a ticket refers to a specific station, or a routeing guide group. There was quite a long thread about this a while ago about whether route Birmingham tickets were valid on WSMR services that passed through stations in Birmingham routeing guide group, but not Birmingham fares group.

Regarding the stations that you must walk between, I wonder if they are defined in the "fixed link file" referred to in RJIS document rsps5001.pdf (timetable information). Strange that they are not included in the routeing guide specification (sp0037.pdf) though.

As far as I can make out the fixed link file is purely used for timings. I.e to determine if the optimum journey (in terms of time) requires a non train transfer. Since routeing has no relation to timing I don't think that it defines stations that 'you must' walk between.

I find it very frustrating that:

1. The routeing guide rules are ambiguous in many situations
2. The routeing guide contains a huge number of errors (I encountered > 100 when parsing it). e.g. spelling, groups missing, maps badly drawn.
3. The RSP Data specs show that there are several tables which may be crucial to determining valid routes, which are not included in the publicly available routeing guide

Fixed Links define non-timetabled links between Timetable Engine Interchange stations. They provide the Timetable Engine with a means of connecting stations with a variety of modes (see below) where it is either not practical (due to volume or non-availability of data) or logical (e.g. walk links) to supply the Timetable Engine with timetabled data for the link.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I was thinking long the lines of what Clagmonster says, the shortest route from Bradford YK Stations is from Interchange. I really am not sure about the logic of a £1.20 Anytime Single having nearly the same benefit as a £5.90 Bradford-Leeds Anytime Return.

FasTIS does say it is valid though, so I looked for another example, Manchester Victoria to City Thameslink and Fastis said it was valid on a Manchester Stns to London Terminals ticket via Salford Crescent and Sheffield to St Pancras and by bus to Blackfriars before walking to City. Now, I assume the planner in Fastis is thinking this doesn't use FCC 'through' Farringdon LUL because it is a bus service rather than the Thameslink or Underground service.

So this got me thinking, what about Cannon Street to Shoeburyness on a London Terminals ticket and Fastis came up with going to Greenwich and taking the DLR to Stratford and proceeding from there.

Southend Victoria to Shoeburyness (Southend Stns-SRY Single £2.10) also comes out as valid via Romford (SOV-RMF Single £8.70)

I think there has to be a bug in the system somewhere, because this doesn't seem right to me.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

I was thinking long the lines of what Clagmonster says, the shortest route from Bradford YK Stations is from Interchange. I really am not sure about the logic of a £1.20 Anytime Single having nearly the same benefit as a £5.90 Bradford-Leeds Anytime Return.

FasTIS does say it is valid though, so I looked for another example, Manchester Victoria to City Thameslink and Fastis said it was valid on a Manchester Stns to London Terminals ticket via Salford Crescent and Sheffield to St Pancras and by bus to Blackfriars before walking to City. Now, I assume the planner in Fastis is thinking this doesn't use FCC 'through' Farringdon LUL because it is a bus service rather than the Thameslink or Underground service.

So this got me thinking, what about Cannon Street to Shoeburyness on a London Terminals ticket and Fastis came up with going to Greenwich and taking the DLR to Stratford and proceeding from there.

Southend Victoria to Shoeburyness (Southend Stns-SRY Single £2.10) also comes out as valid via Romford (SOV-RMF Single £8.70)

I think there has to be a bug in the system somewhere, because this doesn't seem right to me.

There is definately something fishy here. My perspective is that in the original example, a Bradford to New Pudsey ticket would only be valid from Interchange and not Forster Square. In some of the later examples, again, they seem wrong and I think there is an error with the planning software - which wouldn't be uncommon.

As regards London - is there not a rule regarding London Terminals tickets and where they are valid to from each general direction? There was also something published (but I now can't find it) about where tickets to London Terminals were valid as far as on the East London Line from the North and South, i.e. you couldn't cross London via the ELL using one.

Another one where NRES is quite clearly wrong is Warrington. Apparently a you can travel from Warrington Bank Quay to Liverpool via Earlestown, then to Widnes using a Warrington Stations to Widnes ticket at £3.10. A single from Warrington to Liverpool alone is £4.30. Again, in this case I would suggest that the only valid route is Warrington Central to Widnes direct.

Apparently a Wigan Stations to Bolton to single ticket (priced £3.00) is valid to travel from Wigan North Western to Preston then from Preston to Bolton, despite a regular direct service from Wigan Wallgate to Bolton direct. Again, this is quite clearly bonkers as Wigan Stations to Chorley is £9.40 and Preston £6.50, so I don't know how it can be argued that the £3.00 ticket to Bolton is valid via PRE & CRL.

Also, back to the OP, according to NRES a £1.10 Single from Bradford Stations to Frizinghall (first stop out of BDQ) is valid to go from BDI - LDS - SHY - FZH. Again, this is quite clearly wrong.

There is definately an error in the system which does the planning here.

Admittedly the system doesn't give these options automatically, it always advises you to walk from BDI to BDQ or vice versa, or from WGN to WGW - you have to force the planner to give you these options. Yet another example of the shoddy back office system used by ATOC for these programmes.

EDIT - Just checked The East Coast journey planning software and that, as usual, is more accurate and advises that most of the journey options advised above are NOT valid. So yet again we have differing opinions with ATOCs own website, yet again, seemingly giving duff (in my view) information.

 

[spasmj]

I think that this issue is not really one of routeing, but of ticket origin/destination.

Clearly a Bradford - New Pudsey ticket would make sense with an origin BDI
and a Bradford - Shipley etc with an origin BDQ.

Does anyone know if any station which is a member of a 'xxx stations' fares grouping (NOT routeing point group) has any fares available which an origin as the station not the grouping?

If not then it may be just lazy implementation of fares.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Southend Victoria/East/Central have station specific fares to London in addition to a Southend Stns fare. Euston has one to Willesden Junction I think.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

...As regards London - is there not a rule regarding London Terminals tickets and where they are valid to from each general direction? There was also something published (but I now can't find it) about where tickets to London Terminals were valid as far as on the East London Line from the North and South, i.e. you couldn't cross London via the ELL using one....

As mentioned in another thread, the FRPP is quite clear that London Terminals can only use the routes into London shown in the Routeing Guide (the oddity being Vauxhall as it is not part of London Group), for example a ticket from Birmingham is only valid into Marylebone, Euston and Paddington.

 

[Paul Kelly]

Yet another example of the shoddy back office system used by ATOC for these programmes.

And FasTIS also uses Jeppesen IPTIS as its routeing guide/journey planner backend (see here). I don't see any harm in naming and shaming it as often as possible so that people in a position to complain know who to complain to...

Does anyone know if any station which is a member of a 'xxx stations' fares grouping (NOT routeing point group) has any fares available which an origin as the station not the grouping?

One I'm aware of is there are some Grand Central Only fares from Wakefield Kirkgate to/from London Terminals. Avantix Traveller seems to have a bug in that it displays only these fares, and not the interavailable Wakefield Stations as well, when you put in WKK as an origin.

 

[b0b]

In the case where a ticket is bought with an origin or destination as a group station (NOT just a routeing point group member) e.g. "Bradford Stations" is there a requirement to travel from the station in the group which would provide the shortest route?

I think the conclusion of the group is absolutely not.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

I think the conclusion of the group is absolutely not.

Actually, I would say that the conclusion is that you SHOULD travel from the station that provides the shortest, direct route. Ie in the OP you should go from BDI and not BDQ. The general conclusion from most contributors above is that the journey planning software used by NRES is erroneous.

 

[b0b]

Actually, I would say that the conclusion is that you SHOULD travel from the station that provides the shortest, direct route.

I know we've discussed the situation where the destination is a group station and concluded that its irrelevant that the destination is a group, you are permitted to travel to the station you want, but I guess it might be different where the source is a group station.

eg. there's no question that a West Croydon ticket is valid to City Thameslink even if its issued CROYDON STATIONS to LONDON TERMINALS, and almost certainly CTK is more than 3 miles further than the shortest route from West Croydon to the closest "london terminal" (and there's no longer direct trains)

 

[junglejames]

I know we've discussed the situation where the destination is a group station and concluded that its irrelevant that the destination is a group, you are permitted to travel to the station you want, but I guess it might be different where the source is a group station.

eg. there's no question that a West Croydon ticket is valid to City Thameslink even if its issued CROYDON STATIONS to LONDON TERMINALS, and almost certainly CTK is more than 3 miles further than the shortest route from West Croydon to the closest "london terminal" (and there's no longer direct trains)

It isnt always the case that you can go to/ from whatever station you want within a group.
For example. Edinburgh to London Terminals. I bet it isnt valid into Charing Cross. Also, i recently brought a Waterloo East to Ashford ticket, valid via HS1 (dont ask why), and when the machine dispensed it, the ticket said London Terminals to Ashford, and it definitely wasnt valid between Waterloo and St Pancras. It was only valid from one or the other, plus a few more obviously.

So in the case the OP gives, id suggest it is valid from the station which provides the shortest route, and not necessarily from the other one.

 

[b0b]

It isnt always the case that you can go to/ from whatever station you want within a group.
For example. Edinburgh to London Terminals. I bet it isnt valid into Charing Cross.

You missed the point. If I show up at West Croydon and ask for a ticket to City Thameslink, it will be issued from CROYDON STATIONS to LONDON TERMINALS. Even though the West Croydon to City Thameslink is most likely 3 miles further than the closest London Terminal to any Croydon group station, there is no doubt the ticket is valid from West Croydon to City Thameslink.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

If City Thameslink appears on a map valid for a Croydon-London journey it is valid to that station, irrespective of it being the shortest route or not.

The problem with comparing a London example with the Bradford example is that very few of them are like the Bradford example. New Pudsey is a station that is related to Bradford Group, so there are no mapped routes from the Routeing Guide. That is quite rare for a London example because there are lots of nearby routeing points, Clapham, Willesden, New Cross, Stratford and West Hampstead to name a few. So in most cases there is a mapped route to use.

 

[John @ home]

Does anyone know if any station which is a member of a 'xxx stations' fares grouping (NOT routeing point group) has any fares available which an origin as the station not the grouping?

Yes. For example, most stations outside the Travelcard Zones served by Southern have Advance tickets to the named London terminal station. For example, between Eastbourne and London available ticket types are:

Eastbourne - London Victoria route AP Southern Only: Advance & Advance First.
Eastbourne - London Victoria route Not Gatwick Exp: Super Off-Peak Day Single & Return (PDS & PDR).
Eastbourne - London Terminals route Any Permitted: All other ticket types (FOR, FDR, SOR, SDR, FSR, FCR, FDS, SVR, CDR and SDS).

There are also some station groups where local fares are issued only to the nearest station, and no fares exist to a further station nor to the station group. For example, Falkirk Stations comprises Falkirk Grahamston and Falkirk High. Camelon is an adjacent station to Falkirk Grahamston and ticket types available in NFM 08 CD are:

Camelon - Falkirk Grahamston route Any Permitted: All ticket types (FDR, SDR, FDS, SDS and a large number of kids-go-free and group tickets).
Camelon - Falkirk High (which would involve travel via Croy or Polmont): No fares available.
Camelon - Falkirk Stations: No fares available.

In the case where a ticket is bought with an origin or destination as a group station (NOT just a routeing point group member) e.g. "Bradford Stations" is there a requirement to travel from the station in the group which would provide the shortest route?

I think the conclusion of the group is absolutely not.

My conclusion also is absolutely not.

The fact that for some journeys to or from members of station groups some fares are available to or from named individual stations only provides additional evidence. Where the railway industry wish to restrict travel opportunities to or from a more distant station in a group, the Camelon - Falkirk High example shows that they do this. Where travel to or from a station group is not restricted in this way, the passenger can buy "with confidence" knowing that they are free to travel by the route shown on their ticket and calculated in accordance with the routeing guide to or from any station within the group for which a permitted route exists for the journey shown on the ticket.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

No I'm sorry, that is completely absurd. In the examples I quoted it is completely absurd to suggest that a £1.10 Single from Bradford to Frizinghall which is one stop and about 4 minutes out of Bradford Forster Square is valid to travel from Bradford Interchange via Leeds and Shipley. The Wigan to Bolton examples are also clearly bonkers as well. No, my view remains that you should travel only via a direct route if one exists.

 

[yorkie]

No I'm sorry, that is completely absurd. In the examples I quoted it is completely absurd to suggest that a £1.10 Single from Bradford to Frizinghall which is one stop and about 4 minutes out of Bradford Forster Square is valid to travel from Bradford Interchange via Leeds and Shipley. The Wigan to Bolton examples are also clearly bonkers as well. No, my view remains that you should travel only via a direct route if one exists.

But that's a view of what the rules should be.

e.g. the following is valid on a £1.90 Pay As You Go Single:

Euston Square to Wembley Park, Wembley Park to Baker St.

(and I've done it!)
​

Perhaps some would say it "shouldn't" be valid, but according to TfL's rules it is valid.

What matters, is what the rules say, not what any of us think should be valid.

 

[John @ home]

I don't think it's absurd at all if it's permitted by the contract, the conditions, the routeing guide, the route printed on the ticket and all the other regulations I can find.

The railway industry brings itself further into disrepute if it attempts to prevent journeys which are wholly within the rules on the grounds that they are alleged to be absurd.

 

[junglejames]

Yes. For example, most stations outside the Travelcard Zones served by Southern have Advance tickets to the named London terminal station. For example, between Eastbourne and London available ticket types are: There are also some station groups where local fares are issued only to the nearest station, and no fares exist to a further station nor to the station group. For example, Falkirk Stations comprises Falkirk Grahamston and Falkirk High. Camelon is an adjacent station to Falkirk Grahamston and ticket types available in NFM 08 CD are:

My conclusion also is absolutely not.

The fact that for some journeys to or from members of station groups some fares are available to or from named individual stations only provides additional evidence. Where the railway industry wish to restrict travel opportunities to or from a more distant station in a group, the Camelon - Falkirk High example shows that they do this. Where travel to or from a station group is not restricted in this way, the passenger can buy "with confidence" knowing that they are free to travel by the route shown on their ticket and calculated in accordance with the routeing guide to or from any station within the group for which a permitted route exists for the journey shown on the ticket.

Your examples dont actually provide evidence of this. They just show that in some cases you can get tickets from individual stations. Doesnt mean they will always do this if restricting certain routes. Again, my example of Edinburgh to London proves that this isnt always the case. Im pretty certain Bradford will follow my London example. The reason they put Bradford stations, or London Terminals (to name but 2) is because on some journeys you will have a choice. But it doesnt mean you'll always have a choice.

Bradford Stations basically means Bradford. So its the shortest route from Bradford to your destination. In this example i believe somebody has said that the shortest journey is only possible from one of the stations.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Well despite what ive said i believe to be the case, and despite what others have said. We still dont know for sure whether Bradford Stations means Bradford (choose the station offering the valid routes), or if it means Bradford (choose whichever station you like.)

Considering my London examples (which the routeing guide backs up) im pretty certain it must mean the former. But i dont know for sure, and it doesnt seem as if anyone else here definitely knows for sure. Perhaps an email to ATOC, or perhaps Northern. See if they know the answer (they should do!!)

 

[MikeWh]

the following is valid on a £1.90 Pay As You Go Single:

Euston Square to Wembley Park, Wembley Park to Baker St.

(and I've done it!)
​

Perhaps some would say it "shouldn't" be valid, but according to TfL's rules it is valid.

What matters, is what the rules say, not what any of us think should be valid.

That's taking the issue a stage further though, yorkie. We're talking about a paper ticket which might be inspected while on one of these 'odd' routes. You're talking about a smartcard where the validity is guaranteed to be ok as long as it was touched in and the system is left to calculate the charge at the end. Technically also valid for a zone 1 fare would be Euston Square to Harrow-on-the-Hill to Baker Street, but if you weren't careful you'd exceed the maximum journey time and get two unresolved journey charges.

 

[yorkie]

That's taking the issue a stage further though, yorkie. We're talking about a paper ticket which might be inspected while on one of these 'odd' routes. You're talking about a smartcard where the validity is guaranteed to be ok as long as it was touched in and the system is left to calculate the charge at the end. Technically also valid for a zone 1 fare would be Euston Square to Harrow-on-the-Hill to Baker Street, but if you weren't careful you'd exceed the maximum journey time and get two unresolved journey charges.

My point is that, providing the passenger adheres to the terms of the contract, the passenger is "valid", and I was just giving an example of a "valid" journey that some people would probably deem invalid if they decided the rules. What matters is what the rules say.

If you want to use a paper example, an example would be doubling back to Portsmouth Harbour, I was once told by a rude and un-knowledgable SWT guard we should not have done this, and on another occasion (before we knew so much about the RG) I offered to buy returns from Fratton to Portsmouth Harbour but encountered a friendly, knowledgable guard, who informed me that these tickets were not needed. Now I know the rules, if I encountered the un-knowledgable guard again, I wouldn't care how absurd he considered it, I would do the doubling back whether he liked it or not, as it's valid.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Without knowing your Portsmouth example in detail I'm not sure, but it could well have been valid as you were doubling back withing a group on a permitted route or there was an easement in place. Either way there are clear guidelines that this is valid. However, I cannot possibly see how you can reasonably argue the Bradford - Frizinghall ticket is valid via Leeds from BDI. If you buy a ticket from Pontefract to Featherstone it says From Pontefract Stns on it. Does that mean you can choose to go from Baghill via Church Fenton, Leeds and Wakefield? If you buy a ticket from Farnborough to Blackwater the ticket says From Farnborough Stns on it. Does that mean you can choose to go from Farnborough Main via Basingstoke, Reading and Wokingham?

The Croydon example above is different as you are on the same line of route, in the Bradford, Wigan, Pontefract and Farnborough examples the different stations in that group are on completely different lines not remotely connected for miles (except Wigan North Western and its couple of direct Manchester trains a day).

 

[junglejames]

Right, I have clarification on this. So we can put this one to bed.

When it says xxx stations (in this case Bradford Stations), it means you can use it from any station, so long as it leaves you on a valid route. So in this example, Bradford Stations to New Pudsey is only valid out of Interchange. It is not valid out of Forster Sq, as the ticket is not valid via Leeds.
Its exactly like my example with Edinburgh and London Stations. Its not valid into Charing Cross.

 

[clagmonster]

May I ask, who was said clarification from. I agree with it, as the ticket says Bradford Stations-New Pudsey, the shortest route from Bradford Stations is out of Interchange.