I am sure Barry Doe has an opinion on this and it seems this is an issue he has encountered before, but his opinion is just that, an opinion, it is not fact.
Barry Doe has provided nothing extra (i.e. official documentation/wording) to the discussion on this forum and until we get some more clarification I don't think we can call this debate over.
Well if the shortest route does not have to be by rail, we may as well say the entire journey should be done on foot, because the shortest route is in fact along the B6381 at 3.3 miles...
Oh my god. Whatever next. Barry Doe has provided clarification on the situation. Unlike those on here, if he isnt sure, he says so. Ive seen it before. He admits when he isnt sure, or if it is just what he thinks. On this occasion there was no doubting it. He knew for sure that what he said was true. So whilst it isnt documentation, it definitely clarifies the situation.
Anyway, everything else points to what he has said. There is no such thing as a ticket from Forster Sq to New Pudsey. The only available ticket is Bradford Stations to New Pudsey. Bradford Stations to New Pudsey is valid via the shortest route, or one up to 3 miles longer i think (I think the routeing guide says this? Either way, something does, so there is documentation showing it). Going via Leeds, from any station in Bradford is more than 3 miles longer than the shortest route.
The next bit of clarification are the booking engines. Ask for Bradford Forster Sq to New Pudsey, and it will only offer you a Bradford Stations ticket.
Try to put in Forster Sq to New Pudsey 'via Leeds', and it comes back with no available journeys.
If there was a ticket 'Forster Sq to New Pudsey, then yes, youd be right. But there is no such ticket available. Its only Bradford Stations to New Pudsey. There is documentation that shows this is not valid via Leeds, as it is far too long, and by no means the shortest journey. Im not looking for it. I have no need to prove myself right to you if you dont believe me up to now, but perhaps someone else may look for the wording of the rule when both stations are in the same routeing group.
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The Halifax to Frizinghall example is an excellent one as I don't think anyone thinking logically would claim that passengers would be forced to take the walk between FS and Interchange.
Just think of the uproar you'd receive from the elderly/disability lobby if these groups were to be forced to cross Bradford City Centre by foot when the journey could be completed relatively simply by changing once via Leeds.
This example does not prove anything.
When going from one place to another, once your on the train, they will always give you a valid route which does not involve walking between stations. Therefore they are not going to make you walk across Bradford in your latest example.
However, with the Bradford New Pudsey example, there is no such ticket as Forster Sq to New Pudsey. The ticket is Bradford Stations to N Pudsey. Forster Sq is not a valid route, so you have to go to Interchange.
They are not making you walk during your train journey at all, because they have not put a specific station on the ticket.
At the end of the day, the major giveaway is the fact the ticket says Bradford Stations, and not Bradford Forster Sq. Its exactly like the London examples. They say London Terminals, and you have to go to whichever is on a valid route. York to London Terminals is not valid into Charing Cross. Bradford Stations to N Pudsey is not valid out of Forster Sq. Its not a valid route.
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Right, i know i said i had no interest in proving this, but anyway, i have.
Remember in our example, the journey is Bradford to New Pudsey. It does not specify a particular Bradford Station. so we have to take it to mean Bradford.
Bradford is its own routeing point. New Pudsey has routeing points Bradford or Leeds. As Bradford to Leeds is more expensive than Bradford to New Pudsey, you cannot use Leeds as a routeing point. So you have to use Bradford. So both departure and arrival stations have the same routeing point.
If this is the case, then the instructions for this can be found on page 7 of 'The routeing guide in detail (section F)'. Found on ATOCs website.
Right, is there a direct train from Forster Sq to N Pudsey? No, there isnt. Therfore we follow the other rule. This clearly says that you have to follow the shortest route, or a route which is no more than 3 miles longer. (All still found on page 7).
Checking distances, Forster Sq to Leeds itself is over 13 miles. Interchange to New Pudsey is less than 4 miles. Therefore Forster Sq to New Pudsey via Leeds is not a valid route. Its all there to see in black and white. Barry Doe has clarified the situation, and he is 100% right, as am I and everyone else that said it isnt valid from Forster Sq.
Remember, Bradford Stations is to be seen as Bradford. They havent given you a specific station to go from.