Haymarket to Dalmeny electrification

[fgwrich]

Deleted - dodgy signal / repeat post.

 

[snowball]

Which would explain why the down tools. No real benefit to wiring just Haymarket to Dalmeny vs the cost. Better to spend the money somewhere else just now.

I don't think it's a case of delays to the feeder being a cause of delays to electrification. It's shortage of money which delays electrification schemes and consequently takes pressure of the schedule for the feeder (one of six already contracted).

Some time (hopefully late 2024) electrification of East Kilbride will be finished and it would be nice to have a smooth flow of electrification schemes to continue.

Not long ago I would have been hoping that, in parallel with doing EK, they could knock off Haymarket-Dalmeny and start on Fife proper.

Was the Haymarket to Dalmeny stretch due to be fed from the Thornton end, rather than running off the existing OHLE? Though I suppose there’s little benefit (other than to LNER) to crack on with it now if the rest of the Fife Circle isn’t going to be worked on for a few more years yet. A shame though, travelling along that stretch a few times last week gave me a good opportunity to see how many piles had been put in and it was certainly a good amount.

No, Haymarket to Dalmeny is to be fed from the Edinburgh end, with new or rebuilt feeder stations at Currie and Portobello - though somebody recently suggested somewhere on here that the one at Tweedbank could be ready well before those. Though I thought Currie was nearly finished.

No 25kV over the Forth Bridge for several years yet!

 

[Western Gaffer]

The problem is that Westminster argues that HST2 will be of major benefit to Scotland

More HSTs?

 

[InOban]

More HSTs?

Oops corrected.

 

[Chester1]

No, HS2 only benefits England & Wales according to UK Govt, not Scotland. So Scotland does get extra funding (which it uses for it's decarbonisation program), while the devolved Wales gov't does not.

Its an interesting decision when HS2 services will run from Glasgow and Edinburgh but not will serve Wales. I suspect the economic analysis states the benefit to Wales from interchange in Crewe and Birmingham will be greater than direct central belt services.

 

[A330Alex]

Was leaving work earlier this evening. This is the current site of the supposed Haymarket to Dalmeny electrification HQ. All the portacabins and even the SPL signs have been removed.
One thing is for sure, work on this project is moving painfully slowly. If at all…

To think that we were weeks away from a line blockade for this project.

Politicians…

The completion date for this section (at least on the NRS website) has always been December 2024. Given the relatively short nature of the route and the completed work so far, could work resume in Summer 2024 and complete without an official delay?

 

[Davester50]

To think that we were weeks away from a line blockade for this project.

Politicians…

Is this the alleged Jenny Gilruth delay, or another one?

 

[snowball]

Is this the alleged Jenny Gilruth delay, or another one?

I think @A330Alex was referring to the Gilruth delay, but the clearing of the compound suggests it will be followed by another one.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I've just posted in the Levenmouth thread that I've discovered a question in the Scottish parliament answered on 7 July stating that the Thornton feeder is now expected to go live in 2026.

So no live wires in Fife before 2026, so it would be reasonable to suppose Haymarket-Dalmeny in 2025.

Not as if there is any sign of any BEMUs coming so little point expending tight money too early when there are other schemes that will deliver benefits quicker that need the limited funds.

 

[Trainbike46]

Not as if there is any sign of any BEMUs coming so little point expending tight money too early when there are other schemes that will deliver benefits quicker that need the limited funds.

What electrification schemes within Scotland would deliver benefits quicker?

 

[najaB]

What electrification schemes within Scotland would deliver benefits quicker?

On the freight side, electrifying the Edinburgh Sub would allow electric traction all the way from Grangemouth to points in England on the ECML.

 

[NIT100]

What electrification schemes within Scotland would deliver benefits quicker?

Progressing Maryhill Line to Anniesland would deliver quicker benefit without available BEMU or bi-modes, so would extension to Kilmarnock. Both of these were in the Rail services decarbonisation action plan as having design work already started in 2020

 

[snowball]

The first review of the decarbonisation plan is still expected this year and should clarify things, but in my view several recent posts are over-optimistic in suggesting that the de facto pause to Haymarket-Dalmeny will be used to bring forward other electrification schemes instead, such as the ones mentioned in #311 and #312.

In my view the pause to Haymarket-Dalmeny is neither an abandonment of the decarbonisation programme, nor a major re-ordering of it, but a slowing down to reduce cashflow.

In my view the only possible re-ordering might be to move Borders (partial electrification) before Fife (also partial, and considered for the purpose of this sentence to include H-D). I say this because @hwl, seeming to have inside knowledge, said in #1563 of the EK/Barrhead thread that Tweedbank feeder station could be ready well before some of the others (see also #1560 of that thread).

I don't think any other schemes are likely to be sufficiently advanced in design and preparation to replace Haymarket-Dalmeny. This time last year, an article by Jenny Gilruth (see the Barrhead/EK thread #939 and #940) was the first source I saw to mention a clearly-defined "phase 1" of the decarbonisation programme. It comprised Barrhead (now almost finished), EK (repeatedly stated to be finished by Dec 2024), Levenmouth (repeatedly stated to be open for DMUs by spring 2024), Haymarket-Dalmeny, Fife (lines north, south and west from Thornton) and Borders (south and north ends).

 

[fgwrich]

Progressing Maryhill Line to Anniesland would deliver quicker benefit without available BEMU or bi-modes, so would extension to Kilmarnock. Both of these were in the Rail services decarbonisation action plan as having design work already started in 2020

Have to admit, I’m surprised the Maryhill line has been left out for so long. It now almost is a suburban diesel island in an otherwise electric city, and could easily be worked by a 385 or two working out of Eastfield.

 

[gingertom]

Have to admit, I’m surprised the Maryhill line has been left out for so long. It now almost is a suburban diesel island in an otherwise electric city, and could easily be worked by a 385 or two working out of Eastfield.

The Maryhill line has to contend with the Forth & Clyde canal aqueducts in 2 places, Sorting out these civils will not be cheap. Tweedbank was rebuilt with passive provision for electrification in mind so would be an easier install for when the Tweedbank feeder station is commissioned.

Drifting off topic though.

 

[ld0595]

Have to admit, I’m surprised the Maryhill line has been left out for so long. It now almost is a suburban diesel island in an otherwise electric city, and could easily be worked by a 385 or two working out of Eastfield.

Aren't there a few strictures on the line that would require significant works to provide the necessary clearance? I'm sure I read somewhere a few years back that the two canal crossings pose a significant engineering challenge.

 

[snowball]

If I remember correctly, one or two of the video presentations posted on here a couple of years ago said that Maryhill had been pushed out of the early years of the decarbonisation plan, presumably because of the canal.

 

[QueensCurve]

The Maryhill line has to contend with the Forth & Clyde canal aqueducts in 2 places, Sorting out these civils will not be cheap. Tweedbank was rebuilt with passive provision for electrification in mind so would be an easier install for when the Tweedbank feeder station is commissioned.

Drifting off topic though.

Yes the Carmuirs Aqueduct was a big job and it was only one aqueduct.

 

[3RDGEN]

In the rolling stock/electrification grand plan TS issued last May the Glasgow - Anniesland service goes over to BEMU's so not down for full/any electrification.

 

[Taunton]

On the freight side, electrifying the Edinburgh Sub would allow electric traction all the way from Grangemouth to points in England on the ECML.

Why can't they go through Waverley if electric haulage is so important? And how many such services a day are there where the freight operator has electric locos available?

 

[najaB]

Why can't they go through Waverley if electric haulage is so important? And how many such services a day are there where the freight operator has electric locos available?

They can and do go through Waverley, but that eats up paths.

 

[zwk500]

On the freight side, electrifying the Edinburgh Sub would allow electric traction all the way from Grangemouth to points in England on the ECML.

Wouldn't Grangemouth need last-mile capability?

And how many such services a day are there where the freight operator has electric locos available?

This is potentially the far bigger hurdle.

 

[najaB]

Wouldn't Grangemouth need last-mile capability?

Quite possibly. But the Class 88s take care of that.

 

[92002]

Not as if there is any sign of any BEMUs coming so little point expending tight money too early when there are other schemes that will deliver benefits quicker that need the limited funds.

769s currently being d dual mode trains being delivered to Brodie at Kilmarnock from storage. Sounds like ready made dual mode trains. Reliability is poor no doubt part of the Brodie visit.

 

[snowball]

769s currently being d dual mode trains being delivered to Brodie at Kilmarnock from storage. Sounds like ready made dual mode trains. Reliability is poor no doubt part of the Brodie visit.

This is already being discussed in another thread. Nothing to suggest any plans for use in Scotland.

GW 769s to Scotrail?

I saw this in another thread, thought it might be worth discussion.

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[92002]

This is already being discussed in another thread. Nothing to suggest any plans for use in Scotland.

GW 769s to Scotrail?

I saw this in another thread, thought it might be worth discussion.

www.railforums.co.uk

Would certainly be an improvement on 156/158s.

 

[AndrewE]

I can't see a more general live Scottish electrification thread, so https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-66940096 (Scottish infrastructure plans no longer affordable - watchdog) says

The Scottish government will be unable to deliver its investment plans for public sector infrastructure, a public spending watchdog has warned.
Ministers are not expected to be able to fund all £26bn worth of investments.
An Audit Scotland report found higher costs, increased maintenance needs and reduced budgets would force ministers to reassess spending priorities.
The Scottish government said efficiencies around managing public sector property would be required.
Roads, railways, hospitals and other public buildings all fall under the heading of public sector infrastructure.
Examples given in the report of affected projects included:

• Borders railway decarbonisation - cost £32m - paused

etc.

 

[John R]

There’s a good comment in the report (para 24) about the government needing to be transparent about its decisions. The pausing of the plans for Borders electrification would appear a good example of where things just don’t happen, with no announcement as to why (unless I’ve missed something).

 

[snowball]

Fife electrification (including Haymarket-Dalmeny though they are not in Fife) appears to be in the same situation as Borders, but is not mentioned in this report.

 

[jamieintercity]

Does anyone know what kind of work is going on when the line as well as part of fife closes for the next 5 weekends (not including this weekend)