London Buses Discussion

[BJames]

Sometimes, particularly in this part of North London in recent years, a part allocation on a route can get transferred, and this often relates to the Monday to Friday element only. In such cases, the actual move would take place on a Monday but the official date of the change will be the previous Saturday. It's always Saturdays, used to be Wednesdays up to about sixty years ago! Two of Wood Green, Palmers Green, Tottenham, Edmonton, Stamford Hill and Enfield garages were usually involved.

My apologies - have sought clarity and it looks like it is indeed the 9th December (Sat) for the 329 move to take place as it is the whole allocation moving from Palmers Green to Wood Green.

 

[MasterSpenny]

The interior of the single deck Volvo BZL (not quoting the images due to their size and to also dodge copyright)
It does not seem to have many low floor seats (ie the ones where you don’t need to go up like a set of stairs)

Metroline | The Bus Forum

This is a thread dedicated to Metroline's fleet movements i'll start of with VPL 207 VPL 208 VPL 209 Have all transferred from Holloway (HT) to Harrow Weald (HD)

tangytango.proboards.com

Interior pictures of Volvo BZL MCV 9.6m.
Credit to Fábio Tanniguchi on The Londoner.

Would strongly recommend that no one quotes the pictures as they are very large.

 

[dmncf]

The interior of the single deck Volvo BZL (not quoting the images due to their size and to also dodge copyright)
It does not seem to have many low floor seats (ie the ones where you don’t need to go up like a set of stairs)

It won't be winning any design awards, will it?!? Wasted space in front of the exit door (there's already plenty of luggage space on top of the enormous front wheel arches. Drivers sometimes play an announcement telling passengers to stay with your pushchair. But you can't sit and hold onto an unsteady pushchair with that screen in the way.

 

[Goldfish62]

It won't be winning any design awards, will it?!? Wasted space in front of the exit door (there's already plenty of luggage space on top of the enormous front wheel arches. Drivers sometimes play an announcement telling passengers to stay with your pushchair. But you can't sit and hold onto an unsteady pushchair with that screen in the way.

One of the problems is that the wheel arches are so huge because that's where Volvo puts some of the batteries.

 

[158756]

One of the problems is that the wheel arches are so huge because that's where Volvo puts some of the batteries.

Is this an inherent problem of electric buses? The new Enviro400 EVs in Manchester have also been criticised recently for the low number of seats accessible without a step.

 

[Goldfish62]

Is this an inherent problem of electric buses? The new Enviro400 EVs in Manchester have also been criticised recently for the low number of seats accessible without a step.

Not really. BYD don't store batteries in the wheel arches.

The TfGM ones are a problem of their own making. Just look at the London equivalent. Number of seats ahead of wheelchair space(s) / centre door (if fitted): London: 7, GM: O.

 

[Mikey C]

The interior of the single deck Volvo BZL (not quoting the images due to their size and to also dodge copyright)
It does not seem to have many low floor seats (ie the ones where you don’t need to go up like a set of stairs)

Metroline | The Bus Forum

This is a thread dedicated to Metroline's fleet movements i'll start of with VPL 207 VPL 208 VPL 209 Have all transferred from Holloway (HT) to Harrow Weald (HD)

tangytango.proboards.com

That's dreadful. The front half of the bus seems to be all wheelarch!

On quiet London routes, really frail elderly people will normally sit on the low floor seats near the front, and then get off the front door as well to minimise walking (plus benefiting from the kneeling suspension). On this, they'll have to walk right through the bus to behind the rear doors.

 

[MasterSpenny]

That's dreadful. The front half of the bus seems to be all wheelarch!

On quiet London routes, really frail elderly people will normally sit on the low floor seats near the front, and then get off the front door as well to minimise walking (plus benefiting from the kneeling suspension). On this, they'll have to walk right through the bus to behind the rear doors.

Hopefully the ones awaited for the 276 have a better seating pattern! And possibly manual blinds

 

[Goldfish62]

Hopefully the ones awaited for the 276 have a better seating pattern! And possibly manual blinds

Why manual blinds? Last buses with them were delivered to Arriva around 2010. Doubt if any manufacture would be willing to incorporate them.

 

[MasterSpenny]

There is no LG23FVY is there? Is this meant to be LG73FVY?
Funny how Ee100 is supposedly getting a 73 plate, Ee99 is a 23 plate and Ee101 is a 72 plate.

London Vehicle Finder

Search current and historic bus routes and locations in London, Reading, Edinburgh. Created to help photographers track down ellusive vehicles.

lvf.io

Oper	Fleet	Reg	Route	Destination	Time	Stop	Stop Name
GAL	Ee99e	LG23FJN		No record of this vehicle in service

London Vehicle Finder

Search current and historic bus routes and locations in London, Reading, Edinburgh. Created to help photographers track down ellusive vehicles.

lvf.io

Oper	Fleet	Reg	Route	Destination	Time	Stop	Stop Name
GAL	Ee100e	LG23FVY		No record of this vehicle in service

London Vehicle Finder

Search current and historic bus routes and locations in London, Reading, Edinburgh. Created to help photographers track down ellusive vehicles.

lvf.io

Oper	Fleet	Reg	Route	Destination	Time	Stop	Stop Name
GAL	Ee101e	LD72XZT	93	North Cheam	20:23	50538	Wimbledon Station

 

[AlbertBeale]

Whichever way you look at it, falling demand is going to mean cuts in services, surely that is obvious?

No it isn't, unless you think that mobility and public transport should be solely a matter of commerce. It might not be a falling demand for mobility, but less bus use precisely because buses are harder to use because of service cuts etc.

 

[Whiggism]

Hi guys, Which specific local areas in London now have a high concentration of electric bus routes?

 

[Edvid]

None that spring to mind; only about one-eighth of the entire fleet is battery / fuel cell electric at present.

That said you're more likely to get an electric bus in Central London or the major town centres (Croydon for instance) than the outlying reaches of Greater London.

 

[90sWereBetter]

Hi guys, Which specific local areas in London now have a high concentration of electric bus routes?

Walthamstow Central is a good bet, with the 69, 212, 230, 357 and W15 all fully electric. There's also two random E400EVs which were bought by CT Plus for school routes, which can often turn up on the 20.

 

[Goldfish62]

Walthamstow Central is a good bet, with the 69, 212, 230, 357 and W15 all fully electric. There's also two random E400EVs which were bought by CT Plus for school routes, which can often turn up on the 20.

Sutton and Kingston are also good places for seeing loads of electrics.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Oct 2023 ==

That said you're more likely to get an electric bus in Central London or the major town centres (Croydon for instance) than the outlying reaches of Greater London.

There's not much in either Croydon or Central London, the latter being infested with Borismasters.

There's no policy to concentrate rate them in certain areas. It's just the way the tenders go. They can turn up anywhere across Greater London.

 

[Mikey C]

There's no policy to concentrate rate them in certain areas. It's just the way the tenders go. They can turn up anywhere across Greater London.

Yes, it's led to a fairly random looking conversion schedule, with buses running through the outer suburbs just as likely to be converted as one running through Piccadilly Circus.

Indeed the Borismaster factor has meant that the busy central London routes are if anything less likely to be early electric routes...

 

[Edsmith]

No it isn't, unless you think that mobility and public transport should be solely a matter of commerce. It might not be a falling demand for mobility, but less bus use precisely because buses are harder to use because of service cuts etc.

It's called supply and demand

 

[Edvid]

There's not much in either Croydon or Central London, the latter being infested with Borismasters.

There's no policy to concentrate rate them in certain areas. It's just the way the tenders go. They can turn up anywhere across Greater London.

Ah, I'd been in West Croydon when route 450 turned electric (on contract weekend - a rarity by current standards) so I thought there'd be more there. Though they have the trams as well.

Speaking of electrics showing up anywhere there's the 142 - you can get on at Watford Junction and spend 20+ minutes onboard without leaving Hertfordshire!

 

[MasterSpenny]

Hi guys, Which specific local areas in London now have a high concentration of electric bus routes?

Crystal Palace is turning: the first Wrightbus Electroliner for the 417 (ES043) has entered service on the 417. The 450 converted a few weeks ago and the 358… seemingly never going to happen
Electroliner on the 417 (not my photo)

First day in service for this electric allocation on a route which transferred base at the same time. | Arriva South London Wrightbus Electroliner on the 417 to Crystal Palace.

The second of three Clapham to Crystal Palace links gets its first electric bus today making the changeover from E400 diesels to Electroliners. It's also changed garages from Norwood (N) to Brixton (BN) though that will need to make some gains after losing the 133 and 333 early next year. It's...

www.flickr.com

 

[TWBG]

From 08:30, ES43 (LV23ZCL) has entered service on the 417

Key:
T = Alexander Dennis Enviro 400
ES = Wright StreetDeck Electroliner EV

copied from London Vehicle Finder/417

Arriva London - Route 417​

Towards - Clapham Common​

Fleet	Reg	Destination	Due	Stop Id	Stop Name
T227	LJ61CFX	Clapham Common	18:24	56818	Clarence Avenue
T290	GN61JRV	Clapham Common	18:36	55404	Crystal Palace Bus Station
T291	GN61JRX	Clapham Common	18:24	56303	Mountearl Gardens
T294	GN61JSU	Clapham Common	18:25	56449	Streatham Place
T298	KX61LDO	Clapham Common	18:26	55404	Crystal Palace Bus Station

Towards - Crystal Palace​

Fleet	Reg	Destination	Due	Stop Id	Stop Name
T288	GN61JPY	Crystal Palace	18:25	56634	Tivoli Road
T292	GN61JRO	Crystal Palace	18:34	91448	Wingate Square
T295	GN61JRU	Crystal Palace	17:50	50001	Crown Lane/Crown Point
T296	KX61LDL	Crystal Palace	18:25	72992	Telford Avenue
T297	KX61LDN	Crystal Palace	18:25	73118	Clapham Common Station
ES43e	LV23ZCL	Crystal Palace	18:28	53714	Kings Avenue/Atkins Road

 

[renegademaster]

All the cycle schemes have reduced road capacity for buses in Central London, which doesn't exactly help...

Central Croydon was reconfigured very poorly round this cycle scheme that's now messed up the bus routes that go through it

 

[paul332]

That's dreadful. The front half of the bus seems to be all wheelarch!

On quiet London routes, really frail elderly people will normally sit on the low floor seats near the front, and then get off the front door as well to minimise walking (plus benefiting from the kneeling suspension). On this, they'll have to walk right through the bus to behind the rear doors.

This is a critical point. PSVAR focuses on wheelchair users with zero or scant regard to those with less impaired but still debilitating mobility, who can walk but painfully, including large numbers of elderly people who rely on public transport. Reducing numbers of seats on buses doesn't help.

Nor does TfL's iniquitous policy of closing bus stops for road works at the drop of a hat, whether or not traffic conditions demand, prioritising road traffic over the needs of bus passengers. I see unnecessary closures time and again, causing real pain to many users, making a hypocritical mockery of TfL's purported accessibility provisions.

 

[TWBG]

this [video of a demonstrator on the 377] meant that there will be Optare MetroCity EVs on the 377. To the best of my knowledge, they [EMN1-4] are still at the factory awaiting delivery

 

[MasterSpenny]

Sullivan Buses E60/62 have been moved to Hertfordshire work. This spells the end of two more 08 plate buses. Surely they will be gone for good imminently.
(In London, the 355 is in South London where Sullivan Buses doesn’t operate and no route in London has the B77 number)

Fleet list – Sullivan Buses – bustimes.org

bustimes.org

E60	LK08 DXX	355	15:20	ADL Enviro400		Flickr	Edit
E61	LK08 FNE	298	08:38	ADL Enviro400		Flickr	Edit
E62	LK08 NVH	B77	16:00	ADL Enviro400		Flickr	Edit

 

[MotCO]

meant that there will be Optare MetroCity EVs on the 377. To the best of my knowledge, they [EMN1-4] are still at the factory awaiting delivery

Write out 100 times Optare is now to be known as Switch . No, I can't get used to calling them Switch, which sounds a bit naff.

Optare, sorry Switch, seem to have found a niche in providing short buses in London, at least until the ADL 100 makes an appearance. They remind me a bit of the Duple / Carlyle Dart.

 

[Edsmith]

This is a critical point. PSVAR focuses on wheelchair users with zero or scant regard to those with less impaired but still debilitating mobility, who can walk but painfully, including large numbers of elderly people who rely on public transport. Reducing numbers of seats on buses doesn't help.

Nor does TfL's iniquitous policy of closing bus stops for road works at the drop of a hat, whether or not traffic conditions demand, prioritising road traffic over the needs of bus passengers. I see unnecessary closures time and again, causing real pain to many users, making a hypocritical mockery of TfL's purported accessibility provisions.

I totally agree with you about the often unnecessary closure of bus stops which makes a complete nonsense of TfL's 'every journey matters' slogan.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Oct 2023 ==

Central Croydon was reconfigured very poorly round this cycle scheme that's now messed up the bus routes that go through it

What cycle scheme? I can't say I've noticed.

 

[renegademaster]

I totally agree with you about the often unnecessary closure of bus stops which makes a complete nonsense of TfL's 'every journey matters' slogan.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Oct 2023 ==


What cycle scheme? I can't say I've noticed.

The one coming up from Brighton Road by Grants

You got walk quite far out of your way now to get a 312 and the other South Croydon busses to and from the shops . Not nice when you got plenty of heavy bags.

 

[Edsmith]

The one coming up from Brighton Road by Grants

You got walk quite far out of your way now to get a 312 and the other South Croydon busses to and from the shops . Not nice when you got plenty of heavy bags.

The road has been closed off outside the former Grants store for sometime now.

 

[renegademaster]

The road has been closed off outside the former Grants store for sometime now.

I'm not talking about that part, but the road just before it getting turnt into a one way system for the cycle lane. The part of High st between Katherine Street and the Flyover

Edit: getting the geography confused in my head so checked with Google maps

 

[Edsmith]

I'm not talking about that part, but the road just before it getting turnt into a one way system for the cycle lane. The part of High st between Katherine Street and the Flyover

Edit: getting the geography confused in my head so checked with Google maps

I see what you mean but I suspect it would be one way regardless of the cycle lane, delivery vehicles and buses having difficulty passing on the corner of Katherine Street when it was two way. At least now southbound buses no longer have to negotiate the roundabout outside the police station.