Heathrow and BA a disgrace to the country

[neilmc]

Recently we flew from Manchester to Chennai (India) and return. To minimise long airport transfers we flew out via Doha with Qatar and back with BA via Heathrow. What a mistake that was!

The Qatar flight was excellent, although the connecting plane to Chennai was considered a short-haul and didn't have entertainment. Good food, quality entertainment. Doha airport is huge and incredibly busy even in the early hours of the morning but once we'd been bussed to the terminal everything was smooth with minimal checks, just hand luggage being passed through a scanner. Very efficient. Chennai has a new airport and we passed through Indian customs with little queue or fuss.

Coming back, what a disaster! The BA plane offered us the worst airline food I've ever had (and we used to do cheapie longhauls with Monarch!) The entertainment package was terrible, all the music selections were of bands I've never heard of or cheap "live" sessions culled from the BBC. The films were hardly the latest either. Only minor positive was they came round with water and juice reasonably often.

Heathrow was an absolute nightmare; we had two hours connection to Manchester but barely made it due to all the transit passengers having to go through a full baggage check and search despite having this done at our initial airport. In the long snaking line for security there were some Americans desperate to catch a plane to the States, they were fast-tracked through and they were held up by idiots wanting to check their shoes! If our hand baggage had been flagged for checks we would probably have missed our Manchester flight but maybe not as it was 40 minutes late anyway. At the departure gates there were several crammed together all with flights due around the same time and inadequate seating and no refreshments except an extortionate drinks vending machine I wasn't going to pay £8.88 for a coke! WE couldn't have a drink on the Manchester leg becaaue some blockage in a tunnel at Heathrow meant that the catering hadn't been loaded. At least they hadn't lost our luggage.

Conclusions:

1) Anyone who actually wishes to travel from a regional airport to or from London via Heathrow must be mad. Get the train!
2) anyone who needs a transfer should not use a British airport if at all possible
3) anyone who has a choice of airline should always use the Middle East carriers if at all possible but certainly not BA. Never had ANY problem changing planes in the Middle East.
4) if you want to see third-world squalor, incompetence and ripping off, don't bother going to India, you can see all that at UK airports in abundance

 

[Irascible]

Had mixed experiences with ME carriers & probably wouldn't use again, but I'll agree about BA. A long way fro the 80s now. They have at least kept their safety record.

I wonder if Iberia has gone the same way

 

[306024]

For what it’s worth I’ve flown with BA from and to Heathrow relatively frequently this year. Only one major delay when an aircraft was late off scheduled maintenance, other than that the worst that happened was security being over enthusiastic about my (legal) tube of toothpaste once. Even got upgraded recently which was a nice surprise. Returning there have been no queues of any note at border control either.

Far from the national disgrace suggested in the somewhat hyperbolic title.

 

[zero]

The Qatari government trusts UK airport security, while the UK government does not trust Indian airport security. Not really the fault of Heathrow.

With a UK domestic followed by an iternational flight, connecting at Heathrow *in the same terminal* does not require redoing security.

Qatar Airways is owned by the Qatari government and benefits from cheap oil plus low worker protection in Qatar.

In terms of how it treats staff BA is not much better, but at least has to follow British and Spanish laws on employment, being a private Spanish company (International Airlines Group S.A.). Incidentally, Qatar Airways owns 25% of IAG but has not seen fit to make BA improve.

 

[Mojo]

I will always choose to fly from Heathrow over any other airport in the UK. The passenger experience I find to be really good. However I feel sorry for people outside London, BA’s short haul routes are just so unreliable and I would never recommend connecting via Heathrow.

I’m surprised by the comments suggesting Heathrow is a ripoff. Whilst you’ll pay more than on the High St, I find shops at UK airports to be some of the cheapest in the world.

 

[Iskra]

I will always choose to fly from Heathrow over any other airport in the UK. The passenger experience I find to be really good. However I feel sorry for people outside London, BA’s short haul routes are just so unreliable and I would never recommend connecting via Heathrow.

I’m surprised by the comments suggesting Heathrow is a ripoff. Whilst you’ll pay more than on the High St, I find shops at UK airports to be some of the cheapest in the world.

I agree Heathrow is decent. BA are a bit ‘London Airways,’ which is a bit annoying being from The North, but then there’s plenty of competition to get around using them if they aren’t convenient.

However, while I’m not the most frequent flyer compared to many on here- probably only 2-6 flights a year on average, I’ve used BA’s Manchester-Heathrow flights a few times in the last few years and never had any issues either with BA or Heathrow. The BA Manchester route is basically very slightly above low-cost airlines, but if you go expecting that I think you will be fine. The snacks offered are token, so them not being available is hardly the end of the world.

In terms of long-haul again my recent experiences of BA have been excellent although I think the food is something of a lucky dip in economy depending on which meals happen to be loaded. In terms of entertainment, I remember longhaul before personal onboard entertainment systems so the current set-up seems luxurious in comparison and I’d therefore struggle to complain about it considering how far it has come from one screen for everyone or indeed nothing at all! That said, I usually just tend to put the live map on and listen to my own music from my phone which negates the problem of lack of choice and also drowns out the noise of anyone else in the cabin.

The OP just comes across as a bit of rant to be honest. Clearly, enough people must have positive experiences or everyone would have voted with their feet by now! Calling BA a disgrace over this experience just comes across a bit silly.

 

[randyrippley]

The shoe checking is nothing to do with BA or the airport.
It's something the USA authorities insist on. Blame Richard Reid

 

[Mojo]

The shoe checking is nothing to do with BA or the airport.
It's something the USA authorities insist on. Blame Richard Reid

You can always spot an American outside of the USA as they take their shoes off at airport security checks despite most countries not requiring it.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

It’s posts like OPs why I can never understand the rationale in ditching the HS2 branch to Heathrow

 

[Iskra]

It’s posts like OPs why I can never understand the rationale in ditching the HS2 branch to Heathrow

It sounds great in principle but you lose the significant benefit of through-ticketing, so if BA is late from Manchester and causes you to miss a BA connection, that’s BA’s issue to solve. If the train is late, then that’s your issue and it could get costly…

 

[185]

I'll never forget LAX, the TSA had me in stitches laughing. I got put in Queue 6 - ie, low risk, shoes on, metal detector only, I must be that dull.

Got to the front, chap asks me, where you from, I says "England".

His reply "The Irony... So, the one line with no shoes off and they send a British guy through it... your fellow countryman Richard Reid was British"

Lol.. brutal.

 

[thejuggler]

From the north of England flights via Dublin or Amsterdam are worth considering over Heathrow.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

It sounds great in principle but you lose the significant benefit of through-ticketing, so if BA is late from Manchester and causes you to miss a BA connection, that’s BA’s issue to solve. If the train is late, then that’s your issue and it could get costly…

Don’t Thalys do through-ticketing to Brussels Airport?

 

[Tetchytyke]

It’s posts like OPs why I can never understand the rationale in ditching the HS2 branch to Heathrow

Because if you think airside connections on a through ticket are annoying, try a landside connection with no guaranteed through ticketing.

As for connecting at Heathrow, the security is no different to connecting in Dubai.

Prices? It’s about £7 a pint in the T5 Wetherspoon, a bottle of Coke in the shops was about £3. Standard airport prices.

 

[Iskra]

Don’t Thalys do through-ticketing to Brussels Airport?

Not very helpful for residents of the North of England

But, yes there are some examples of it in Europe.

To me at least, it’s the main barrier to eradicating unnecessary domestic flights in this country.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Don’t Thalys do through-ticketing to Brussels Airport?

Depends on the airline. Lufthansa do through-ticketing onto DB, especially at Frankfurt. But that requires a level of joined-up thinking that has completely evaded the UK rail industry for the last 30 years.

BA Manchester-Heathrow-wherever means that if BA’s connecting flight is delayed/cancelled then BA have to sort it out. If you take the train instead then it’s your problem to sort out. Same in reverse.

 

[WelshBluebird]

To address the entertainment point of the post, the reality is that lots (probably most) of the people who would care about watching a film or listening to music on a flight will have their own solutions (often a tablet with things downloaded from Netflix and iPlayer for films and from Spotify or Apple music for songs). The need for the airline to provide that entertainment is massively less than what it used to be so it's only natural that it gets less attention and money put into it.

 

[whoosh]

£8.88 for a coke?

I'd expect expensive but that's ridiculous!

Was it an incorrectly displayed price though? A digital readout, or a label where the number is made of segments, has no segments blanked out to make 8. So looks to me like the price hasn't been set.

 

[Mojo]

£8.88 for a coke?

I'd expect expensive but that's ridiculous!

I find it hard to believe too, Especially when you consider that you can get a meal deal from Boots for £4.99 at airports which can include a bottle of Coke if you want.

 

[nw1]

£8.88 for a coke?

I'd expect expensive but that's ridiculous!

Was it an incorrectly displayed price though? A digital readout, or a label where the number is made of segments, has no segments blanked out to make 8. So looks to me like the price hasn't been set.

Almost certainly this.

 

[swt_passenger]

It’s posts like OPs why I can never understand the rationale in ditching the HS2 branch to Heathrow

You’ve been here a while, you must have missed dozens of explanations why it was binned. It would disrupt and lengthen the journey for the 95% of passengers on each service who don’t want to go to Heathrow.

 

[nw1]

To address the entertainment point of the post, the reality is that lots (probably most) of the people who would care about watching a film or listening to music on a flight will have their own solutions (often a tablet with things downloaded from Netflix and iPlayer for films and from Spotify or Apple music for songs). The need for the airline to provide that entertainment is massively less than what it used to be so it's only natural that it gets less attention and money put into it.

Would be interesting to note what the OP meant by "bands they've never heard of".

I'd guess contemporary bands, as older "classic" bands tend to be well-known across the generations.

Speaking as someone of the middle generation, I think I'd also be less than happy if there was no "classic" music - which I freely admit is probably a sign of getting old.

 

[neilmc]

Another factor of the experience I didn't mention was that my wife has an assistance lanyard, but the woman policing the long security queue said I couldn't accompany her through the speedy channel which rather loses the point if we have to separate. Our major British airports are shabby and they clearly will not grasp the nettle and completely rebuild, we have lots of patched-up "improvements". Chennai has a beautiful new airport, so does Muscat in Oman, and Doha is pretty good for its huge size.

We flew back with BA throughout precisely because if we missed a connecting flight they couldn't shrug and say it was our fault. Flying with a scheduled European national airline used to be a privilege, now it's an embarrassment and worse than a budget carrier I am told Lufthansa is just as bad. WE have flown with most of the Middle East airlines and the food, service, comfort and entertainment have been good to excellent in every case.

Why can overseas airports manage security efficiently but the UK cannot? Not trusting India to provide an adequate security check and having to go through the whole palaver again at Heathrow and risking people missing flights as a result is just old-fashioned racism against a country which in many ways is more technologically advanced than the UK now.

We flew from Edinburgh earlier in the year and that was pleasant and competent with polite officials, so sometimes it can be OK.

 

[DanNCL]

As someone who has connected through Terminal 5 several times, including twice in the last two weeks, and has some knowledge of the inside workings of BA and Terminal 5, I thought I’d share my view on this.

Connections are sold with a minimum connection time (60 minutes if entirely at T5, longer if requiring a terminal change), any connection sold as such by BA or any other airline to/from Heathrow for that matter if through ticketed will meet that criteria and if you were to miss your connection the airline would have to re-book you at no extra cost to yourself, plus in most cases you'd be entitled to the usual compensation applicable for delays over a certain length. Many airlines offer through ticketing onto BA short haul flights at Heathrow, including Qatar Airways and American Airlines. There are BA ticketing desks at flight connections staffed at all times that can do this re-booking for you in the event that this were to happen.

Terminal 5 has a process called conformance. It applies to both connecting passengers and those starting their journey at Heathrow, and effectively what this does is actively tack the progress of passengers through the airport to give both the airport and the airline a better idea of who will and won't make their flight. Conformance at T5 for connections is only 35 minutes, if you've scanned your boarding card at flight connections by this time you shouldn't have any issues, you've cleared conformance and therefore if there are queues for security (and if applicable border control) allowances are usually made, they know you're in the airport and so will wait as long as they reasonably can for you. If you arrive at flight connections with less than 35 minutes go to a member of staff as they can (and often do) override conformance on a case by case basis to allow passengers to make their flights.

Something else also often done for passengers on tight connections is that someone will meet you off the plane, escort you straight to the front of the queues at flight connections and security, and then straight to the departing gate. If you arrive at Heathrow with less than 60 minutes until your connections it's always worth looking out for staff holding an iPad with your connecting flight number and destination shown. Both BA and Heathrow know which connections everyone is making, you'll likely not be the only one making the same connection and it's in the interests of BA to ensure that you make your connection so they will often go out of their way to ensure you make it.

With regards to security on flight connections, this is a CAA requirement, as the CAA doesn't trust security at any non-UK airport. If arriving at Heathrow on a domestic flight you don't pass through security again, flight connections is a simple process of having your boarding pass scanned and going up an escalator straight into departures.
Airports in the EU generally only trust security at other EU airports, so arriving from Chennai you would almost certainly have to pass through security at Schiphol, Charles de Gaulle or Frankfurt too.

So all in all, connections at Terminal 5 really isn't that bad. It's certainly no worse than than what KLM would offer at Schiphol or Lufthansa would offer at Frankfurt, and it's relatively rare for connections to be missed at T5 even if the inbound flight is delayed and the connection becomes tight.

The vending machines belong to an external company (Selecta?) who set the prices themselves. £8.88 does sound like an error, but regardless what the price is it's entirely beyond Heathrow's control. If you want something to eat that's reasonably priced (by airport standards) I'd recommend going to Boots, or if you're after a more substantial meal there's a Weatherspoons at the north end of A gates, near gates A5-A7.

The tunnel blockage at Heathrow has now been resolved but was impacting most airlines. BA and Virgin Atlantic were disproportionately impacted as all of their flights have to load catering at Heathrow, whereas the other airlines could get around it by stocking up for the return flight at their home base. The tunnel in question is the primary access route from the catering area at Heathrow to the terminals, so it being out of action meant catering had to be transported via the other roads and Heathrow chose to put a limit on that so that the other airside roads didn't become too congested for other airport traffic, for example fuel trucks.

Delays particularly on domestic departures from Heathrow but to some extent also on international departures are an issue as, like everywhere else in the UK workforce, there's a labour shortage.
Additionally a small number of BA's aircraft (G-DBCx registered A319s) can't take containerised baggage yet the baggage system at T5 can only handle containerised baggage, so on the (thankfully rare) occasions one of those aircraft is allocated to a T5 flight there's often a delay whilst the baggage is removed from the containers at the stand to be loose loaded into the hold. Where possible those aircraft are kept away from T5 to avoid this issue but on occasion they do have to allocate one of these aircraft to T5 flights.
Everyone at BA is fed up with it but for as long as there's a staff shortage at Heathrow and for as long as there's that micro fleet of ex-BMI A319s that can't handle containerised baggage it isn't going to get much better unfortunately.

I can't comment on the long haul onboard service as it's been a long time since I last flew long haul. On short haul BA are adequate, certainly better than the likes of easyjet and Ryanair, but it isn't what it used to be, and the cabin isn't consistent across aircraft either. A new uniform has been rolled out across BA over the last few weeks and there have been a few teething troubles as staff are getting used to it, but this should settle down over the next few weeks.

Another factor of the experience I didn't mention was that my wife has an assistance lanyard, but the woman policing the long security queue said I couldn't accompany her through the speedy channel which rather loses the point if we have to separate.

I don't believe that's Heathrow policy and is definitely worth making a complaint about direct to Heathrow airport. All staff, including those at security, are trained to recognise the sunflower lanyard and should be aware that those with sunflower lanyards often need to be accompanied by someone without one.

 

[Starmill]

1) Anyone who actually wishes to travel from a regional airport to or from London via Heathrow must be mad. Get the train!

If you need to travel from Manchester to Heathrow Airport T2, 3 or 5 usually the journey time is three and a half hours using Avanti West Coast and Heathrow Express. That's including 45 minutes to get off the platforms at Euston, over the road to Euston Square Underground and then wait for a Hammersmith & City line train to Paddington. You can sometimes beat that by going via the Northern line to Tottenham Court Road then the Elizabeth line, but this introduces additional changes. Add an extra 10 minutes to get to T4 because Express doesn't go there, though as it's only 40 minutes from Tottenham Court Road to Heathrow T4 you may find it simpler to do that.

Now you would want to be arriving an absolute minimum of two hours before departure for a journey like that given the big risk of a delay onboard one of the trains. Therefore as an absolute minimum you need to leave Manchester five and a half hours before your plane departs. Most people would probably choose to allow three hours minimum at Heathrow Airport because of the risk of a delay to their train, the possibility of a substantial walk needed from the train platform to your aircraft's gate, and the time to pass security. As a result, realistically you're looking at leaving Manchester Piccadilly six and a half to seven hours before flying.

The cost of a through ticket would set you back a very substantial amount of money too, even when booking in advance. A cheaper option would be available splitting but not much.

If you're travelling in the morning, you can't possibly get from Manchester Piccadilly to Heathrow Airport until almost 0830. As such you're limited to departures from around 1130 onwards, unless you're very brave. As you're taking an intercontinental flight I can't imagine there's many people who are willing to be brave.

 

[dosxuk]

Why can overseas airports manage security efficiently but the UK cannot? Not trusting India to provide an adequate security check and having to go through the whole palaver again at Heathrow and risking people missing flights as a result is just old-fashioned racism against a country which in many ways is more technologically advanced than the UK now.

The UK doesn't trust any other nation's security. While you may be able to complain about British exceptionalism in this case, it's a bit much to call it racism when it affects all nations and races.

 

[306024]

As someone who has connected through Terminal 5 several times, including twice in the last two weeks, and has some knowledge of the inside workings of BA and Terminal 5, I thought I’d share my view on this........

Thanks for all your explanations. The logistics of running the airline industry are complex and fascinating to a relative layperson like me, even though I too have some inside knowledge.

Meanwhile an airport I have come to dislike in a short space of time is BER, the new Berlin Airport, if only because the lounge couldn't be further from security, and you need a drink after the long queues I've experienced there Hopefully a better experience next week.

 

[deltic]

As BA is not a British company I'm not sure how it can be a disgrace to the country!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Additionally a small number of BA's aircraft (G-DBCx registered A319s) can't take containerised baggage yet the baggage system at T5 can only handle containerised baggage, so on the (thankfully rare) occasions one of those aircraft is allocated to a T5 flight there's often a delay whilst the baggage is removed from the containers at the stand to be loose loaded into the hold. Where possible those aircraft are kept away from T5 to avoid this issue but on occasion they do have to allocate one of these aircraft to T5 flights.
Everyone at BA is fed up with it but for as long as there's a staff shortage at Heathrow and for as long as there's that micro fleet of ex-BMI A319s that can't handle containerised baggage it isn't going to get much better unfortunately.

You have to wonder, then, why BA are removing the G-MEDx series of A321s from their fleet and retaining the G-DBCx series of A319s...

Granted, the A321 is too big to directly replace the A319, but they could easily cascade the 321s onto current 320 services and move the 320s to replace the 319s... too late now, though - those 321s have already left the fleet.

...or did those specific 321s, being ex-BMA themselves, also have the same issue with the cargo holds?

 

[Mojo]

Why can overseas airports manage security efficiently but the UK cannot? Not trusting India to provide an adequate security check and having to go through the whole palaver again at Heathrow and risking people missing flights as a result is just old-fashioned racism against a country which in many ways is more technologically advanced than the UK now.

This is a bit far fetched and extreme, nothing to do with the UK, which whilst no longer the best in the world, still has very good airports. Most people doing International > International and International > Domestic around the world will be subject to security screening when making a connection.