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Ticket Office closures no longer going ahead

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Kite159

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Hikes in car park charges wouldn't be a bad idea in certain areas.
In some suburban and most rural areas, the car is a necessity and charging more would be unfair.

However, stations like Manchester Piccadilly could have a price hike without detriment to the vast majority of passengers. Traffic in central Manchester is horrendous sometimes, so a potential decrease in traffic is always a good thing there, and there's still cheaper parking for people with no choice (£12 for 24 hours, as opposed to £21 currently in the station car park) about a 5 min walk away in the Bloom St car park by the coach station.

I'd do the same thing with Liverpool Lime St, Birmingham Snow Hill, Watford Junction, Southampton Central etc..
To protect disabled people, you could freeze prices for those with a Blue Badge.
They will probably target the easier targets of those more rural stations which act as railheads for nearby towns which have limited or no bus service & roads don't lend themselves for walking or even cycling.

Rather than hiking up the cost of the city centre car parks
 
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sor

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I presume the TOCs are loving the fact that the government is attempting to put the blame on them!

yes, disgusting that a government should actually listen to other people's viewpoints on a matter, and change their policy accordingly. In future, lets all government always presses on regardless
As has to be pointed out every time a u-turn happens under the recent Tory govts, this isn't the government coming up with a well researched idea that has to change in the face of new evidence or unforeseen circumstances.

They *always* go for the very worst option despite being told that it won't work, attempt to "press on", then they always u-turn after a massive negative PR campaign. We are then expected to pretend that they've had an earnest rethink and should be praising their flexibility
But why is it "mad"? At my local GW (Devon) station there are 2 "dispatch" staff (I presume one for each platform) who work on the platform, they appear a few seconds before a train is due and a couple of minutes later after they have dispatched the train, they disappear back in to their office to await the next train which might be 50 mins or more away. At the same time, the ticket office is sometimes closed when the man in there has a break or goes to lunch. Is this really the optimum way to use staff so the customer is best served? Is there any particular reason why all 3 people can't be trained up to sell tickets and dispatch trains and then allocated a job accordingly?

Multi skilling seems to already be in place in Cornwall, in my experience.
 
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notverydeep

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Or just, as TfL does, to give them free travel entirely.
TfL itself doesn't completely 'give' them free travel, the largest scheme - the Freedom Pass is funded by the London Boroughs. This is in contrast to the 60+ London Oyster photocard for those over 60 but younger than required to qualify for a Freedom pass which is TfL provided, but these are the 'young retired'.

Its going to be interesting to see how automation is opposed in the next few years because the excuse of elderly people won't last too much longer. Already most people drawing a state pension where working during some part of the 2000s and should have been exposed to some modern technology. By 2030 people who genuinely can't use a computer, smart phone or TVM will be either extremely elderly or severely disabled. It would be cheaper to run an honesty system for those groups and hope they pay at a gate line or on board than pay for a thousand stations to be staffed unnecessarily.

It is already true that many pensioners have used and got used to this type of technology, but it is also noticeable how some lose confidence with them and increasingly require 'human' assistance to navigate automated systems and are anxious if this reassurance isn't available. This is particularly true for many over 75 - 80. Anecdotal evidence for sure, but talking to my mother (who is in this category), I discovered that there are people who make a living assisting with very basic technology tasks such as setting up smart phones and TVs for the elderly, some charging a fair amount for what I would regard as a trivial task. Older people are a significant source of traffic and revenue for the railway and it would be unwise to ignore their specific needs, especially the need for reassurance that they have a correct ticket and are in the right place...
 
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Carlisle

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Sadly, the uncertainty of her position caused by the outrageous proposals has forced her to move on to another job.
Unfortunately good employees have always left, retired, moved sideways or are promoted for a multitude of highly individualistic reasons regardless of weather changes are under consideration or not .
 
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Lemmy99uk

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Unfortunately good employees have always left, retired, moved sideways or are promoted for a multitude of highly individualistic reasons regardless of weather changes might be under consideration or not .
However, in this case, she would not have left but for the ill-thought out booking office closure proposals.

The railway has enough of an image problem as it is, but still they manage to alienate and lose their best staff.
 

daveo

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No doubt a ploy by the regime to show they "compromise", and that this PR stunt was planned this way from the very start!
My comment back in July -
"Two possible outcomes of all this -
1 . The consultations and deliberations drag on until close to the election, at which point the caring government announce that they have heard the views of people and are cancelling the plans."

I was wrong, we are not yet close to an election!!!
 

800001

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Helpfully beyond the gateline to the left of the main platforms
that will be why I have never seen it, never knew they had one there.
Seems a silly place to have one, if you need a ticket to get through barriers.
 

Krokodil

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that will be why I have never seen it, never knew they had one there.
Seems a silly place to have one, if you need a ticket to get through barriers.
Presumably it acts as an Excess Fares desk for arriving passengers
 

AlastairFraser

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They will probably target the easier targets of those more rural stations which act as railheads for nearby towns which have limited or no bus service & roads don't lend themselves for walking or even cycling.

Rather than hiking up the cost of the city centre car parks
Maybe, but I don't see them as easier targets. MPs in rural areas are more likely to be backbenchers with more time on their hands to campaign against it.
 

RPI

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Multi skilling seems to already be in place in Cornwall, in my experience.
All of the ex Wessex trains stations, so all of Cornwall, Teignmouth, Dawlish, Torquay, Paignton Exmouth Exeter Central and so on have multi skilled grades, there are different grades of multi skilled grades, for example, the S7 grade does dispatch, ticket Office, gateline (where appropriate), most at these stations are that grade, S8 is I believe basically the same but supervisory and only at larger stations.

Exeter Central is a prime example of where it works extremely well, a great team and they work well helping each other out at different jobs so that everything works.
 

Parham Wood

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So I remember about 15 years ago there was a campaign to save the cheque. Cheques were duly saved but you try using one now.

This has just delayed things by about 5 years
We have a holiday cottage and some guests still pay by cheque. Fortunately we can just scan the cheque to pay it in with the bank we use.
 

Taunton

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So reduced opening times could well be a part of this mad plan to make everyone multi - functional station hosts.
I am non-youthful enough to remember when the "porter" at a station could do literally everything - ticket sales, platform, parcels, sweeping up, shovelling snow, loading freight in the goods shed, lit the waiting room fire, saw each train away, pasting up posters, carried old ladies' bags, phoned for taxis, cleaned the windows, contacted control over any irregularities or connections to be held at the main line, had the keys to lock up, etc. They could also do the full, proper signalbox, single line tokens, etc. They also did the daily balance of cash against ticket sales.

When did this change, that only some tasks were done by different grades, but not others?

They even did the station garden in spare time between trains.
 

LowLevel

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I am non-youthful enough to remember when the "porter" at a station could do literally everything - ticket sales, platform, parcels, sweeping up, shovelling snow, loading freight in the goods shed, lit the waiting room fire, saw each train away, pasting up posters, carried old ladies' bags, phoned for taxis, cleaned the windows, contacted control over any irregularities or connections to be held at the main line, had the keys to lock up, etc. They could also do the full, proper signalbox, single line tokens, etc. They also did the daily balance of cash against ticket sales.

When did this change, that only some tasks were done by different grades, but not others?

They even did the station garden in spare time between trains.
The final death knell was when Railtrack came into being I think and the stations were restructured as "retail" grades.

With the exception of things like freight duties that no longer exist and operational duties that are no longer considered their purview many station staff are already multi functional and do much of the above - including the gardening!
 

david1212

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For now this is good news but with the reduced demand in time there has to be change including some closures.

As already stated some ticket offices now do not have a steady flow of customer but brief peaks shortly before each train hence the staff are not well utilised.
The predominant error was proposing closures before a total reform of ticketing. Following this the TWM's at all stations to be closed need to be replaced/upgraded to able to offer all tickets starting with the choice between using a planner and directly buying the tickets with the display clearly and simply stating the validity of the selected tickets plus have a Zoom type connection to a remote ticket office be that just to answer a query or completely enter the details so all the customer had to do was make the payment. Rather than a central or regional hub this would be to a station in the local area hence the staff would have local knowledge.
 

Backroom_boy

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I suspect we'll see a ticket office surcharge (probably disguised as an across the board online discount) to shift channels.

But perhaps the biggest shift will be the home counties going onto payg into London (which seems to be the direction of travel with Project Oval and no doubt future extensions)

But yes should be full steam ahead on sorting out ticketing and everything else will flow from there.
 

ainsworth74

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For the sake of posterity attached to this post is a copy of the Transport Focus and London TravelWatch responses to the ticket office consultation. It is not all the documents, the various different accessible formats are not included and some of the material has also been omitted. But it does contain the main responses and also the summary of the consultation process laying out the consultation process, the criteria used to assess proposals and the key assessments made in making their decision. They are attached as two zip folders one for Transport Focus and one for London TravelWatch.

More documents can, of course, be found on their websites here for Transport Focus and here for London TravelWatch however experience has taught that often these sorts of documents end up eventually going walk about so can be hard to find in years to come!
 

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Killingworth

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For the sake of posterity attached to this post is a copy of the Transport Focus and London TravelWatch responses to the ticket office consultation. It is not all the documents, the various different accessible formats are not included and some of the material has also been omitted. But it does contain the main responses and also the summary of the consultation process laying out the consultation process, the criteria used to assess proposals and the key assessments made in making their decision. They are attached as two zip folders one for Transport Focus and one for London TravelWatch.

More documents can, of course, be found on their websites here for Transport Focus and here for London TravelWatch however experience has taught that often these sorts of documents end up eventually going walk about so can be hard to find in years to come!
The devil is in the details. It would be unrealistic to submit every minor change of hours to consultation, say a 15 minute reduction.

The following in the EMR response is interesting;
In addition, Derby, Leicester, Lincoln, Nottingham and Sheffield stations were not submitted as ‘major changes’ under the Ticketing Settlement Agreement (TSA) process and so were not part of the public consultation. However, we note that passengers submitted comments to Transport Focus on the above stations during the consultation period.
At these stations minor changes have been made to the ticket office opening times, and changes to staffing levels will occur when the ticket offices become designated as Customer Information Centres. These represent a change to the regulated hours and, as they have not been included under the current consultation, we presume they have been submitted to the Department for Transport (DfT) under the minor change arrangements set out in the TSA. Transport Focus is not consulted on minor changes; but we are conscious that guidance issued by the Secretary of State says that changes may be made under this procedure “if either the total time during which the ticket office is open each day is not materially reduced or the change does not have a material adverse effect on passengers or other operator’s sales through that office”.
 

sheff1

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I note Northern were suggesting they'd have 4,000 local outlets selling tickets. "retailing via c.4000 local outlets (but understand it is not likely, at least initially, that they would offer the full product range)"

I can't see that working, the very thought's enough to drive most to a TVM or app. The numbers of customers actually buying at these hypothetical outlets would bring so little business that they'd be almost guaranteed not to know much about what they were doing.
I often buy tickets from local outlets (a corner shop miles from a rail station and the Spar next to Sheffield station). The various staff in both have always been most willing to follow my guidance on how to issue the tickets even when they have never heard of them before. The staff at Sheffield station booking office are fully aware of the tickets but point blank refuse to issue them because "they" won't allow it.

I appreciate most passengers probably would not be able to guide shop staff on how to issue tickets.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Why does it matter who manages the station? A ticket office is a ticket office which sells a full range of products for the National Network.
Clearly you are not familiar with the ticket office at Sheffield.
 

Mcr Warrior

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Why does it matter who manages the station? A ticket office is a ticket office which sells a full range of products for the National Network.

The staff at Sheffield station booking office are fully aware of the tickets but point blank refuse to issue them because "they" won't allow it.
Are we talking about trying to purchase Greater Manchester 'Wayfarer' tickets at Sheffield? (Whilst not valid for use at Sheffield, they are valid at Grindleford, a couple of stations along the line from Sheffield).
 

Killingworth

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Are we talking about trying to purchase Greater Manchester 'Wayfarer' tickets at Sheffield? (Whilst not valid for use at Sheffield, they are valid at Grindleford, a couple of stations along the line from Sheffield).

Northern's ticket machines sell them. But Sheffield's row of TVMs are ERM and they currently don't. However their ticket office is now supposed to sell them.
 

sprunt

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Check out the replies and quotes of the below tweet (in which this MP calls the plans of his own government "boneheaded") for some real entertainment:

They're all at it, there's clearly been a message sent down from above. I saw the MP for Accrington did the same bit on Facebook, and while most of the replies were pointing out that it was originally the government's idea, there were a few in there - presumably local party members joining in with the charade - posting replies of the "Well done, thanks for continuing to fight for us locals" variety.
 

Fidelis

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Whilst there may be areas where MPs are claiming success after the event.
Locally all Conservative MPs along the Cotswold Line wrote letters supporting the campaign by the Cotswold Line Promotion Group to stop the closures and calling for a debate in Parliament. The Conservative MP for Malvern Hills, Harriett Baldwin led the successful move to get a debate in Westminster in September opposing the closures .
 

jon81uk

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I would generally support a change in hours for the ticket office and redistribution of the staff around the station. At my local station, frequently when coming home from my commute at around 6pm there are two or more staff chatting away to each other behind the glass of the ticket counter, whilst the ticket barriers are open. If the ticket office is quiet one of the staff should be out on the barrier where they can assist customers face to face and help with revenue by closing the barriers. Personally I find staff feel more approachable if they are talking amongst themselves behind a sheet of glass.
 
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