Class 319 LNR withdrawal date

[D7666]

As expected, can't really see why they would swap both diagrams the same day if you think about it.

I don't need to think about it; I was merely confirming silverlinky's excellent gen; not debating it or what else could have happened.

 

[Trainguy34]

Was doomsday today or next Tuesday? If it's next Tuesday, what diagrams is it likely to be?

 

[AJDesiro]

Was doomsday today or next Tuesday? If it's next Tuesday, what diagrams is it likely to be?

Monday the 27th, for the morning part of the below diagram, as per @Silverlinky's post: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/class-319-lnr-withdrawal-date.250424/post-6508381

5B06 0648 Bletchley CS to Bletchley
2B06 0656 Bletchley to Euston
5C06 0818 Euston to Camden CSD

 

[Bigvernicus]

Better make the last one a 12 car, as will be full on leaving Bletchley if it can be done.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Better make the last one a 12 car, as will be full on leaving Bletchley if it can be done.

Are there that many 319 cranks who will get to Bletchley for just before 7am? I doubt it.

It's quiet anyway as people have been avoiding it as it was 4 car for a good while.

 

[D7666]

Better make the last one a 12 car, as will be full on leaving Bletchley if it can be done.

Full of what ?

I have to ask .......................

 

[Bletchleyite]

Full of what ?

I have to ask .......................

I might consider doing it, and "full of fresh air north of Watford" would be my expectation based on extensive use of this train in the past.

 

[D7666]

I might consider doing it, and "full of fresh air north of Watford" would be my expectation based on extensive use of this train in the past.

Well if a goodly number of cranks turn up one might revise that to "full of hot air"



Especially 'hot air' from the "johnny come latelies" who froth about 319s but spent the past +30 years ignoring them & that is me speaking as a Luton commuter who saw 319s in from new, replacing 317s, and, I was on 319s on their first day (but not first working) in traffic on BedPan (before Thameslink) and saw them right through to the last day, and have +600,000 miles of unit travel / +400,000 miles of actual distance travelled on them. ((400,000 miles over +30 years is not a lot in commuter terms, and my commuting has always been discontinuous through job changing, and never ever more than 3-4 days per week.))

But me appearing before sunrise next Monday is not going to happen. My 'farewell', if there is one, will be Friday evening peak, assuming it all pans out, or, I have already had it, yesterday.

I am doubting I will get up to Northern territory again before they go unless they linger longer than is currently predicted.

769s don't count for this purpose here.

 

[778]

Well if a goodly number of cranks turn up one might revise that to "full of hot air"



Especially 'hot air' from the "johnny come latelies" who froth about 319s but spent the past +30 years ignoring them & that is me speaking as a Luton commuter who saw 319s in from new, replacing 317s, and, I was on 319s on their first day (but not first working) in traffic on BedPan (before Thameslink) and saw them right through to the last day, and have +600,000 miles of unit travel / +400,000 miles of actual distance travelled on them. ((400,000 miles over +30 years is not a lot in commuter terms, and my commuting has always been discontinuous through job changing, and never ever more than 3-4 days per week.))

But me appearing before sunrise next Monday is not going to happen. My 'farewell', if there is one, will be Friday evening peak, assuming it all pans out, or, I have already had it, yesterday.

I am doubting I will get up to Northern territory again before they go unless they linger longer than is currently predicted.

769s don't count for this purpose

If someone had told you when you first saw the 319s from new, that they would still be in service in 2023, would you have believed them?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

If someone had told you when you first saw the 319s from new, that they would still be in service in 2023, would you have believed them?

They probably looked shiny and modern at the time they were new. I'd have thought it more believable back then than ten years ago, when they were working crowded Thameslink services and looking more and more dilapidated by the day.

 

[DarloRich]

If someone had told you when you first saw the 319s from new, that they would still be in service in 2023, would you have believed them?

yes - they are simple, solid electric trains. I might have hoped for cascades to secondary newly electrified lines and an updated interior mind!

 

[D7666]

If someone had told you when you first saw the 319s from new, that they would still be in service in 2023, would you have believed them?

Yes.

Because traditional BR rolling stock ordered by BR for BR projects was planned for and accounted for 40 year engineeing and book life. As 319s were new in 1987 to 1990 batches, 2027 to 2030 was the expectation.

Yes, many people can, and no doubt will bore us by doing so, list numerous EMU that have not lasted 40 years, but all those fleets that have not are casualties of post 1994 privatisation fragmentisation franchisation and vinylisation rather than joined up railway thinking. Does not matter if you look at 365s or 456s and so on, and even 332s, every one of those axed fleets resulted from policies and politics that changed since BR and since 1994.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I might have hoped for cascades to secondary newly electrified lines and an updated interior mind!

I suppose the 321 Renatus upgrade proved that a big turn around of MK3-EMUs is certainly possible with the right investment.

 

[JonathanH]

As 319s were new in 1987 to 1990 batches, 2027 to 2030 was the expectation.

'Thameslink 2000' could have been a major factor in the amount of time they continued to ply the Bedford to Brighton route.

 

[D7666]

They probably looked shiny and modern at the time they were new. I'd have thought it more believable back then than ten years ago, when they were working crowded Thameslink services and looking more and more dilapidated by the day.

Indeed, as Luton commuter, I was glad to see the back of 319s for my day by day travel, even though this was never daily. Towards the end 319s were simply no longer fit for purpose for Thameslink services.

OTH, 319s were crankworthy and sitting on top EE-legacy screaming traction motors had its appeal. But not when the train is rammed solid; sardines had a luxury after life in comparison.

yes - they are simple, solid electric trains. I might have hoped for cascades to secondary newly electrified lines and an updated interior mind!

But they have been cascaded (from Thameslink) to LM, and to Northen, for newly electrified lines, and as 769s too.

If the Northern zone etc OLE plans had not been postponed / cancelled / descoped / whatever term one wishes to use, IMHO it is almost certain more 319s (and 321s maybe) might have made their way north, and, maybe, 769s never thought of and that particular series of farces avoided.

 

[DarloRich]

But they have been cascaded (from Thameslink) to LM, and to Northen, for newly electrified lines, and as 769s too.

If the Northern zone etc OLE plans had not been postponed / cancelled / descoped / whatever term one wishes to use, IMHO it is almost certain more 319s (and 321s maybe) might have made their way north, and, maybe, 769s never thought of and that particular series of farces avoided.

Agreed - but I think I meant use around, say, Middlesbrough or Newcastle rather than Manchester

 

[D7666]

'Thameslink 2000' could have been a major factor in the amount of time they continued to ply the Bedford to Brighton route.

Indeed.

And even then, once it morphed from TL2000 to TLProject, there was still procrastinating and delay in ordering new stock (700s); a significant count of 387s resulted from that dithering. There was supposed to have been a TL phase of 700s only operation, without the upgraded core, with seperate, dedicated, 700 pools split between 3B and HE, and certain domestic SC trains 700 worked e.g. Victoria Littlehampton / BognorRegis. That would have seen off 319s from TL 2-3 years before than what actually happened.

Agreed - but I think I meant use around, say, Middlesbrough or Newcastle rather than Manchester

Ahh I see, sorry.

More OLE beyond what was once announced.

Yes agreed.

But we really can't have people posting sensible progressive ideas like that tut tut that will never do.

 

[DarloRich]

Back on topic - will the evening ( c.1900) MKC > Euston > MKC run be a 319 tomorrow?

But we really can't have people posting sensible progressive ideas like that tut tut that will never do.

My apologies. I don't know what came over me.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thankfully was able to avoid them but the 1810 Euston to MKC, supposedly a 319 turn, was short formed to 4 today as was the 1806 to Bletchley...so has at least one failed?

 

[Class15]

Thankfully was able to avoid them but the 1810 Euston to MKC, supposedly a 319 turn, was short formed to 4 today as was the 1806 to Bletchley...so has at least one failed?

Surely, if one of the /4s has failed, they should get one of the /2s out from Camden?

 

[Silverlinky]

319457 has worked solo all day today, it was diagrammed that way, for Wednesday only as a 4 car all day. Back up to 8 cars for tomorrow.
There was an additional planned move for 5N49 this evening which saw 319433 go from Bletchley to Kings Heath, and a return move an hour later as 5B49 which is showing 433 coming back.

 

[skyhigh]

Surely, if one of the /4s has failed, they should get one of the /2s out from Camden?

If the set failed just before the service, was there any spare driver to move the set? Or time? And if the ones at Camden are stood down, have they had any bits removed which means they're not fit for service?

It's not as simple as "just use that one".

 

[TheHSRailFan]

WMT has officially confirmed that the last LNR 319 will be 2B06 the 0656 from Bletchley to London Euston before ECS to the sidings on monday.


RTT link for anyone wondering:

Realtime Trains | 2B06 0656 Bletchley to London Euston | 27/11/2023

Real-time train running information for 2B06 0656 departure from Bletchley to London Euston on 27/11/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Bletchleyite]

319457 has worked solo all day today, it was diagrammed that way, for Wednesday only as a 4 car all day. Back up to 8 cars for tomorrow.

Why's that, to allow for midweek maintenance?

 

[D7666]

Why's that, to allow for midweek maintenance?

It is all part of a master plan where TOCs are hand in hand with ISPs to increase interweb bandwidth consumption from discussions like this ...............

 

[DM352]

If someone had told you when you first saw the 319s from new, that they would still be in service in 2023, would you have believed them?

No, they were run to the ground on Thameslink with many full trains in the rush, more so with the SouthCentral transfers (i.e using for running a 319 to Beckenham jct!).

The leasing companies got more than their monies worth from sweating the assets with privitisation and a bonus with other railway divisions.

They have lasted well - would be happy if a car of same vintage lasted as long with refular maintenance as they existed - E or F reg car (1988)!

 

[D7666]

No, they were run to the ground on Thameslink with many full trains in the rush, more so with the SouthCentral transfers (i.e using for running a 319 to Beckenham jct!).

The leasing companies got more than their monies worth from sweating the assets with privitisation and a bonus with other railway divisions.

They have lasted well - would be happy if a car of same vintage lasted as long with refular maintenance as they existed - E or F reg car (1988)!

But, with respect to the question that was asked, which was about would you have expected them to be about now, in 2023, AT TIME OF INTRODUCTION in 1987, you could not have known nor predicted all that which came about since; leascos and tocs sweating assets came after 1994, after privatisation, and 319s not lasted 40 years, which is why I bothered to write all that out; your answer is written from what you know in 2023 - the question was about what expectations were at the time in 1987-1990

More to the current matters, anybody know what they are,if at all, today please ?

 

[Silverlinky]

But, with respect to the question that was asked, which was about would you have expected them to be about now, in 2023, AT TIME OF INTRODUCTION in 1987, you could not have known nor predicted all that which came about since; leascos and tocs sweating assets came after 1994, after privatisation, and 319s not lasted 40 years, which is why I bothered to write all that out; your answer is written from what you know in 2023 - the question was about what expectations were at the time in 1987-1990

More to the current matters, anybody know what they are,if at all, today please ?

Remains as a four car (319457) as 433 did not come back from Kings Heath last night

2B06 0656 Bletchley-Euston
2T53 1624 Euston-Tring
2T54 1715 Tring-Euston
2K51 1809 Euston-Milton K
2K52 1927 Milton K-Euston
2B61 2054 Euston-Bletchley

 

[D7666]

Remains as a four car (319457) as 433 did not come back from Kings Heath last night

2B06 0656 Bletchley-Euston
2T53 1624 Euston-Tring
2T54 1715 Tring-Euston
2K51 1809 Euston-Milton K
2K52 1927 Milton K-Euston
2B61 2054 Euston-Bletchley

ta

my plans will be cancelled if its a 4 car tomorrow

 

[Bletchleyite]

ta

my plans will be cancelled if its a 4 car tomorrow

I think I might have ridden my last 319. I avoided it yesterday because it was a 4...if it won't go back up to 8 I think that's my lot!

I assume the two /2s on Camden are definitively stopped now, i.e. they'd cancel rather than get them out again?