2024 Tube Stock (Siemens Inspiro London)

[Silent]

What did you notice, specifically that makes them knackered? I used them recently too but can't seem to work out what it is, given that the interior still looks modern.

Sometimes I think it's just the feel of maybe the motors, wheels and brakes. They don't feel the sharpest on the Picc Line when I have ridden it.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Nov 2023 ==

That will be interesting, the existing scrolling displays are not very good a lot of the time.

I think for the 710's and 345's the displays are not placed optimally for longitudinal seats. Displays are better than dot matrix but dot matrix was simple. I think the issue is they haven't figured out how to make the displays ui easier to read for passengers, it feels like too much information to me sometimes.

 

[thomalex]

That will be interesting, the existing scrolling displays are not very good a lot of the time.

The issue I have with the scrolling displays is how everything is written out verbatim. The displays on the Elizabeth line do this much better, yes they are larger but they just state “This station” “Farringdon”, “Next station” “Liverpool Street”.

Whereas on the scrolling displays you’d get “This station is Farringdon. Please mind the gap between the train and the platform. The next station will be Liverpool Street”. You can never just glance at them and know where you are.

 

[trebor79]

Sometimes I think it's just the feel of maybe the motors, wheels and brakes. They don't feel the sharpest on the Picc Line when I have ridden it.

They are from another time. I don't think they feel particularly knackered. The Bakerloo stock feels a bit worn out.
Both the Pic and Bakerloo have the old fashioned tube train gearbox noises, hissing brakes, slow pneumatically operated doors and tick-tick-tick noises from the cam driven controllers.
They certainly feel old fashioned in some respects, but I wouldn't describe them as knackered. I actually like the 72 and 73 stock precisely because they aren't boring modern soulless stuff.

 

[birchesgreen]

Whereas on the scrolling displays you’d get “This station is Farringdon. Please mind the gap between the train and the platform. The next station will be Liverpool Street”. You can never just glance at them and know where you are.

Exactly, its easy to miss it.

 

[trebor79]

The issue I have with the scrolling displays is how everything is written out verbatim. The displays on the Elizabeth line do this much better, yes they are larger but they just state “This station” “Farringdon”, “Next station” “Liverpool Street”.

Whereas on the scrolling displays you’d get “This station is Farringdon. Please mind the gap between the train and the platform. The next station will be Liverpool Street”. You can never just glance at them and know where you are.

Agree. And the Elizabeth Line announcements are much better and less annoying than some of the others. I actively avoid the Victoria now because the automated PA is so loud and irritating being told multiple times per stop "Brixton has no step free access. The Circle line is running with SEVERE DELAYS. The Metropolitan line is running with SEVERE DELAYS. The Hammersmith and City line is running with SEVERE DELAYS".

 

[Silent]

They are from another time. I don't think they feel particularly knackered. The Bakerloo stock feels a bit worn out.
Both the Pic and Bakerloo have the old fashioned tube train gearbox noises, hissing brakes, slow pneumatically operated doors and tick-tick-tick noises from the cam driven controllers.
They certainly feel old fashioned in some respects, but I wouldn't describe them as knackered. I actually like the 72 and 73 stock precisely because they aren't boring modern soulless stuff.

I also like them and will miss the sound of DC motors when they are gone. I don't use the Picc Line much but when I have used it, maybe a few years ago, it was like it was less smoother than when I used it in 2010, and slower speeds, though I think they were recently refurbished a bit so are a bit better.

 

[trebor79]

I also like them and will miss the sound of DC motors when they are gone. I don't use the Picc Line much but when I have used it, maybe a few years ago, it was like it was less smoother than when I used it in 2010, and slower speeds, though I think they were recently refurbished a bit so are a bit better.

Yeah Picc definitely feels slower than back in the day, although perhaps that's just because there's now such a stark difference between it and the Central, Jubilee, Northern and Victoria lines.

 

[eh_oh]

To me the 73 stock feels fine, just like any other deep-level stock really, but the 72 stock is the one that feels antiquated, with its quite announcements and unvenly/slow opening doors.
That side I don't ride either line regularly

 

[Bald Rick]

What did you notice, specifically that makes them knackered? I used them recently too but can't seem to work out what it is, given that the interior still looks modern.

Doors mechanisms, paint chipped everywhere, bits of floor broken, seats had it, all sorts of stuff.

 

[Basil Jet]

I think giving up some window space to allow for air conditioning ducts is a fair trade off.

Why do air-con ducts have to be opaque? Or more to the point, why would a large double glazed window with ducts connecting at the bottom and top function less well than multiple small windows separated by opaque ducts?

 

[popeter45]

Why do air-con ducts have to be opaque? Or more to the point, why would a large double glazed window with ducts connecting at the bottom and top function less well than multiple small windows separated by opaque ducts?

they tend to get humid and theremore rather moist looking inside

 

[trebor79]

Why do air-con ducts have to be opaque? Or more to the point, why would a large double glazed window with ducts connecting at the bottom and top function less well than multiple small windows separated by opaque ducts?

they tend to get humid and theremore rather moist looking inside

And the windows would get cold and have condensation on the inside all the time, and your freshly cooled air would pick up heat from outside. Also you'd get dirt inside - sometimes to see streaks of grubbiness around air con vents.
And other stuff like if the outlet gets blocked does the window break due to getting pressurised etc.

 

[AM9]

Agree. And the Elizabeth Line announcements are much better and less annoying than some of the others. I actively avoid the Victoria now because the automated PA is so loud and irritating being told multiple times per stop "Brixton has no step free access. The Circle line is running with SEVERE DELAYS. The Metropolitan line is running with SEVERE DELAYS. The Hammersmith and City line is running with SEVERE DELAYS".

But the Lizzie is neither 'the Tube' or even LU, and given its excellent accessibility, warnings about gaps are unnecessary, - which is the opposite of the original four Tube lines which do need H&S warnings about the gaps.

 

[Via Bank]

But the Lizzie is neither 'the Tube' or even LU, and given its excellent accessibility, warnings about gaps are unnecessary, - which is the opposite of the original four Tube lines which do need H&S warnings about the gaps.

On the contrary, there are plenty of stations on the Shenfield and Great Western branches where a "Mind the Gap" announcement is used. It simply announces "Mind the gap between the train and the platform" and displays this on the screens once on the approach to the station. No need to repeat it when standing at the station itself because everyone (on the platform and on the train) has already been warned.

And it's definitely not an efficient use of space to simply display the text of the spoken announcements on a screen (looking at you Thameslink class 700s.) Again the Elizabeth line is a good model here. On the approach to the platform, the display changes to the name of the station you're arriving at, plus any interchanges. No scrolling "the next station is." No "the doors will open on" (since anyone who can see the screens will see which sides the doors will open on.) Simple, efficient, understandable, even with limited English.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

And it's definitely not an efficient use of space to simply display the text of the spoken announcements on a screen (looking at you Thameslink class 700s.)

The Class 700 UI is, at least in my opinion, much clearer, more professional, and overall a better package. The 345s, in a way, come across as patronising and overly simplistic.

 

[AM9]

On the contrary, there are plenty of stations on the Shenfield and Great Western branches where a "Mind the Gap" announcement is used. It simply announces "Mind the gap between the train and the platform" and displays this on the screens once on the approach to the station. No need to repeat it when standing at the station itself because everyone (on the platform and on the train) has already been warned.

And it's definitely not an efficient use of space to simply display the text of the spoken announcements on a screen (looking at you Thameslink class 700s.) Again the Elizabeth line is a good model here. On the approach to the platform, the display changes to the name of the station you're arriving at, plus any interchanges. No scrolling "the next station is." No "the doors will open on" (since anyone who can see the screens will see which sides the doors will open on.) Simple, efficient, understandable, even with limited English.

You may not like the provision of safety notices in both visual and written form, but remember there are plenty who only have one of the required faculties to rely on.

The Class 700 UI is, at least in my opinion, much clearer, more professional, and overall a better package. The 345s, in a way, come across as patronising and overly simplistic.

Thameslink's clientele is considerably different to the Lizzie, - for a start, there are far fewer visitors/tourists than on the 345s who need a bit more molly coddling. Yes I agree with you, the TL revolving info and other specific notices are much better and suitable for the type of journeys that are prevalent on thie routes.

 

[Thirteen]

I've only been on the Class 710 a few times but does anyone remember if the digital displays on the sides do anything aside from telling the time.

 

[Via Bank]

You may not like the provision of safety notices in both visual and written form, but remember there are plenty who only have one of the required faculties to rely on.

We are getting off topic here, but as I said in my post the Elizabeth line does provide the safety notices in both visual and [presumably you meant] audio form, it just does it once only per station and using slightly more minimalist wording (vs. LU which seems to prefer repeating more and being wordier.) But anyway.

Anyway, back onto the 2024TS. Walk-through cars are certainly a very welcome upgrade, but it does make me wonder where people are going to put suitcases on trains to Heathrow etc. particularly if there aren't designated luggage racks. There's only so much you can do in such a tight loading gauge but I'd hope it's something they've thought about.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Anyway, back onto the 2024TS. Walk-through cars are certainly a very welcome upgrade, but it does make me wonder where people are going to put suitcases on trains to Heathrow etc. particularly if there aren't designated luggage racks. There's only so much you can do in such a tight loading gauge but I'd hope it's something they've thought about.

More people will use the Lizzie for that now, the Picc is more going to be about locals and workers.

 

[Gaelan]

More people will use the Lizzie for that now, the Picc is more going to be about locals and workers.

In my position (usually arriving at Kings Cross, price sensitive) the Piccadilly still makes far more sense; but that's probably fairly rare.

 

[Thirteen]

There isn't any luggage racks on the current stock at the moment so the chances of luggage racks on the new trains are very small.

 

[rmt4ever]

To me the 73 stock feels fine, just like any other deep-level stock really, but the 72 stock is the one that feels antiquated, with its quite announcements and unvenly/slow opening doors.
That side I don't ride either line regularly

Quiet announcements is simply a delight compared to the ear piercingly loud, crass, and overbearing tannoy announcements heard all over the rest of the LUL network!!

 

[Dstock7080]

There isn't any luggage racks on the current stock at the moment so the chances of luggage racks on the new trains are very small.

Not racks as such but were originally designed with a stand-back area by the double doors and similar at the car ends, upon refurbishment the double door space was made larger with the provision of a perch seat; the 2024 Stock lack this space.
The prototype refurbished ‘73 Stock unit 190 had various designs of luggage rack.

Also the door windows aren’t as tall as on 1973 Stock, stooping down to see out.

 

[Silent]

I've only been on the Class 710 a few times but does anyone remember if the digital displays on the sides do anything aside from telling the time.

I think maybe a few displays in the side walls should be used as information displays as it’s easier to view for people sitting in the longitudinal seats.

 

[Thirteen]

Not racks as such but were originally designed with a stand-back area by the double doors and similar at the car ends, upon refurbishment the double door space was made larger with the provision of a perch seat; the 2024 Stock lack this space.
The prototype refurbished ‘73 Stock unit 190 had various designs of luggage rack.

Also the door windows aren’t as tall as on 1973 Stock, stooping down to see out.

I would imagine the wheelchair spaces could be used for people with luggage. TBH given the 2024 stock is going to standardised across the board, it makes sense for it not to cater for Heathrow customers.

 

[TRAX]

I would imagine the wheelchair spaces could be used for people with luggage. TBH given the 2024 stock is going to standardised across the board, it makes sense for it not to cater for Heathrow customers.

There’s nothing preventing an adaptation on a given line.

 

[Recessio]

There’s nothing preventing an adaptation on a given line.

True, but I think it's better to have a wheelchair space that can also be used for standing passengers, pushchairs and suitcases, and could even have fold-down seats like the 95 stock on Northern line.

Rather than a suitcase rack that only fits certain sizes of suitcase, and can't be used for any other purpose.

 

[birchesgreen]

I would imagine the wheelchair spaces could be used for people with luggage. TBH given the 2024 stock is going to standardised across the board, it makes sense for it not to cater for Heathrow customers.

Not going to be that much standardisation, the 2024 version for the Bakerloo will be different in a number of areas.

 

[100andthirty]

What makes you think that?

 

[birchesgreen]

What makes you think that?

Do you mean me?

Well different nature of the line will require some tweaks and changes.