Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway

[DelW]

But will it be constantly booked working? or only one-time-special event?

Basically, no-one knows, or rather, anyone who does know is likely to be keeping quiet in case it all goes pear-shaped at the last minute.

 

[Andy1673]

Being a "launch" I am interpreting (hoping) that to mean it will not be a one off run. It should mark the beginning of a roll out of more and more 701s. Probably first taking over all the services on the Waterloo/Windsor route one-by-one. Then spreading to other services - most likely also on the Windsor lines side.

We will see it (soon?) I hope that will be so.

 

[The_Train]

Very sorry but what is the soft launch? what is that and how will it be look like?

Basically, they don't want anyone to know about it just in case, as is likely, everything goes pear shaped. And I'd guess that, even if the unit did perform fine, they won't receive much positive publicity anyway considering the length of time it has taken to get these into service so it's lose-lose for SWR now anyway

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Basically, they don't want anyone to know about it just in case, as is likely, everything goes pear shaped. And I'd guess that, even if the unit did perform fine, they won't receive much positive publicity anyway considering the length of time it has taken to get these into service so it's lose-lose for SWR now anyway

That won’t stop them issuing a press release if all goes well I PROMISE you

 

[swr444]

Where have you seen this? Is it a public announcement or an internal document/newsflash?

Internal document from ASLEF. I cannot share anymore

 

[Snow1964]

But will it be constantly booked working? or only one-time-special event?

By definition a soft launch is start of a phased transition, not a one off.

Unless they mis-use the term, should mean builds upwards, not disappears for a while then restarts, ie if one train one day, will be at least one next day (could be same number, or could be more next day).

A one off would be a preview or some other launch (eg publicity launch), but not a soft launch

 

[Jamesrob637]

"Planned for December 2023" according to Wikipedia!

 

[TheHSRailFan]

"Planned for December 2023" according to Wikipedia!

Wikipedia takes information from sources and may not be accurate anymore. Might be referring to the hollow promises SWR keeps saying about them for introduction.

 

[SWT_USER]

Am I right in thinking that Windsor diagrams are self contained and don't interwork with other routes? If so I guess it makes it easier to do a set swap at Waterloo or Windsor and run a single out and back journey with a driver/ guard who are trained on the unit.

 

[Goldfish62]

Am I right in thinking that Windsor diagrams are self contained and don't interwork with other routes? If so I guess it makes it easier to do a set swap at Waterloo or Windsor and run a single out and back journey with a driver/ guard who are trained on the unit.

I certainly believe so from my own observations.

Reading and Weybridge seem to be not quite so self-contained.

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

Wikipedia takes information from sources and may not be accurate anymore. Might be referring to the hollow promises SWR keeps saying about them for introduction.

The citation is:

Pickering, Graeme (May 2023). "December start date for SWR 'Arterios'". Track Record. The Railway Magazine. No. 1466. Horncastle: Mortons Media Group. p. 90. ISSN 0033-8923.

 

[PG]

But will it be constantly booked working? or only one-time-special event?

Being a "launch" I am interpreting (hoping) that to mean it will not be a one off run.

I think it'll be a one time, tick the box in service run for now.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Basically, they don't want anyone to know about it just in case, as is likely, everything goes pear shaped. And I'd guess that, even if the unit did perform fine, they won't receive much positive publicity anyway considering the length of time it has taken to get these into service so it's lose-lose for SWR now anyway

Its hardly lose-lose they are getting paid handsomely by DafT to run two train fleets let alone all the costs of training and retraining and i wonder who had to stump up for the cab redesign. As an aside presumably all accepted units have the updated cab design?

 

[Goldfish62]

I think it'll be a one time, tick the box in service run for now.

Given staff training has started surely the aim will be to get them into service ASAP, rather than just run one special working then revert back as if nothing has happened.

 

[Bigfoot]

One unit off peak Monday to Friday to Windsor. Handful of drivers being trained to soft launch and controlled in service testing.


Sorry missed an F and clearly some took things a tad too literally.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

One unit of peak Monday to Friday to Windsor. Handful of drivers being trained to soft launch and controlled in service testing.

And we don't have a rough date yet?

 

[Goldfish62]

One unit of peak Monday to Friday to Windsor. Handful of drivers being trained to soft launch and controlled in service testing.

Thanks.

 

[H&I]

One unit of peak Monday to Friday to Windsor. Handful of drivers being trained to soft launch and controlled in service testing.

Thanks. I don’t suppose that means this Monday, right?

 

[swr444]

One unit of peak Monday to Friday to Windsor. Handful of drivers being trained to soft launch and controlled in service testing.

Not peak. Off peak between 1000-1600.

 

[TEW]

Thanks. I don’t suppose that means this Monday, right?

Definitely not next week due to the industrial action.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Definitely not next week due to the industrial action.

Would be a lovely surprise for the first Monday of the timetable change

Not peak. Off peak between 1000-1600.

Yes he said “of peak” which I rather suspect was an accidental omission of the second F.

 

[stadler]

I will not believe that they are entering service until i see it happen. They were originally supposed to enter passenger service in Spring 2019 so over four and a half years late now. It is difficult to believe that they will actually enter service and that another problem will not come up.

So has the role of the Guard and the method of door operation been decided yet? From reading the recent posts in this thread it seems not? Some people are saying it will be Driver Open Driver Close (this was the original plan) and some saying Driver Open Guard Close (and that plans have changed) so it seems to still be under discussion from what i gather? It does not seem very clear on what will happen. This is one reason why i doubt they will enter service this soon.

The Guards who will work the 701s are mainly the Non Commercial Guards (or Metro Guards as they call them now) who do not check or sell tickets. On the current stock they open and close doors and despatch the train. However if the new 701s are Driver Open Driver Close than are SWR basically paying for Guards to do nothing? So they will basically just sit on the train reading the paper?

If they are using the Driver Open Driver Close method then will the Guards be required to step on to the platform at every stop like the Southern OBSs are? Or will it be like the AGA Guards and Southeastern OBMs and they will not be required to do this?

Also will the Guards be guaranteed on every train (so the train can not run without) like the AGA Guards and Southeastern OBMs are? Or are they allowing them to run with just the Driver when a Guard is unavailable like Southern does when their OBSs are unavailable?

There seems to be a lot of unanswered questions about this. Even some friends i have who work for SWR are unsure. I know three Guards who work at SWR and even none of them are sure on any of the above.

 

[TEW]

No train will run without a guard, that much is for sure.

Would be a lovely surprise for the first Monday of the timetable change

I believe that may have been the plan at one point but the industrial action may have pushed it back. It's unlikely any training will be able to take place next week.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I believe that may have been the plan at one point but the industrial action may have pushed it back. It's unlikely any training will be able to take place next week.

Although that makes me feel slightly resentful, if it’s been moved to not long after then it’s still exciting to think they’ll be in service before Christmas.

 

[H&I]

Definitely not next week due to the industrial action.

Thanks. If drivers cannot train due to industrial action next week, I think that the 11th (Monday after timetable change) may be unlikely as well.

 

[Goldfish62]

So has the role of the Guard and the method of door operation been decided yet? From reading the recent posts in this thread it seems not? Some people are saying it will be Driver Open Driver Close (this was the original plan) and some saying Driver Open Guard Close (and that plans have changed) so it seems to still be under discussion from what i gather? It does not seem very clear on what will happen. This is one reason why i doubt they will enter service this soon.

See post #6386

 

[Peter Sarf]

Given staff training has started surely the aim will be to get them into service ASAP, rather than just run one special working then revert back as if nothing has happened.

Exactly. It would be a waste of time, money and effort to train lots of staff just for one token run.......

One unit of peak Monday to Friday to Windsor. Handful of drivers being trained to soft launch and controlled in service testing.

Thanks.

Not peak. Off peak between 1000-1600.

Thanks.

---

No doubt there may be some hiccups but service introduction soon is looking very inevitable.

 

[Goldfish62]

No doubt there may be some hiccups but service introduction soon is looking very inevitable.

Well indeed. I remember the Class 458 introduction, entering service first on the Alton line - an understatement to say there were issues!

Not in considerable issues with the 450s and 444s when first introduced.

Always the way with new trains.

 

[Snow1964]

I think it'll be a one time, tick the box in service run for now.

As said earlier, A launch can be one time.

Soft Launch is different and is quietly starting regular use, which builds up, so at least same number of trains following day

But both terms are being banded about, so unclear which it will be.

 

[amazon1675]

Logistics may play a part too. All the stored ones need to be dragged back...again...then what they displace needs to go to disposal locations. Those old 47s will be clocking up the miles! One wonders if the stored ones will need another shakedown prior to service?