How many carriages will the HS2 trains have?

[Fazaar1889]

I don't know much about other countries' methods or HS1. How will HS2 have its trains setup?

 

[hexagon789]

I don't know much about other countries' methods or HS1. How will HS2 have its trains setup?

They are to be based on the Zefiro 300 design and be approx. 200m long but capable of double train operation, so potentially running as approx. 400m long.

The existing Zefiro 300 design is 202m (8-car) or 404m (16-car).

So, I presume the HS2 trains will thus be 8-cars but with the ability to operate as 16.

 

[Fazaar1889]

They are to be based on the Zefiro 300 design and be approx. 200m long but capable of double train operation, so potentially running as approx. 400m long.

The existing Zefiro 300 design is 202m (8-car) or 404m (16-car).

So, I presume the HS2 trains will thus be 8-cars but with the ability to operate as 16.

Thank you! How does that compare to the current equivalent? i.e, Aventi west coast...

 

[hexagon789]

Thank you! How does that compare to the current equivalent? i.e, Aventi west coast...

Pendolinos are ~218m or 263m (9-car vs 11-car).

 

[Jan Mayen]

Yes, but will it have 1st Class and/or a Restaurant Car?

 

[hexagon789]

Yes, but will it have 1st Class and/or a Restaurant Car?

Don't see why not. Likely even be three-class, given that's what Avanti currently offers and the existing Zefiro 300s in service with Trenitalia are actually four-class with a bistro car and are also eight coaches/200m.

 

[Energy]

Thank you! How does that compare to the current equivalent? i.e, Aventi west coast...

Avanti Pendolinos run as one full length unit, around half the fleet was extended to 11 car (though in hindsight they all should have been done) and the 11 cars tend to be focused on busier services.

HS2 captive operation is 2x200m units, with a single 200m unit continuing onto the current Network.

This is all subject to change following Rishi's postponing on construction of phase 2.

 

[Fazaar1889]

Pendolinos are ~218m or 263m (9-car vs 11-car).

Avanti Pendolinos run as one full length unit, around half the fleet was extended to 11 car (though in hindsight they all should have been done) and the 11 cars tend to be focused on busier services.

HS2 captive operation is 2x200m units, with a single 200m unit continuing onto the current Network.

This is all subject to change following Rishi's postponing on construction of phase 2.

Thank you!

 

[hexagon789]

around half the fleet was extended to 11 car (though in hindsight they all should have been done) and the 11 cars tend to be focused on busier services.

59.6% of the then existing fleet were extended and 62.5% of the current fleet are 11-car, though I agree that all 11s would've been preferable if possible.

At the very least:

- they did extend some sets
- they obtained four additional full 11-car sets
- the original plan of a mixed 8 and 9-car fleet wasn't perpetuated beyond initial preview services and early runs on quieter duties - mostly EBWs and some off-peak Manchesters from memory before sets either entered traffic as 9s or had the TS vehicle inserted.

Thank you!

No problem.

 

[daviesjon33@gm]

Pendolinos are ~218m or 263m (9-car vs 11-car).

Forgive the dumb question,but why aren't Pendolinos doubled up?

 

[43096]

Forgive the dumb question,but why aren't Pendolinos doubled up?

There’s no platforms long enough to take them.

 

[hexagon789]

Forgive the dumb question,but why aren't Pendolinos doubled up?

Too long for one, existing infrastructure can't accommodate 18, 20, 22-car trains.

 

[The Ham]

Too long for one, existing infrastructure can't accommodate 18, 20, 22-car trains.

Even if the end stations could, the usefulness of coaches beyond coach 13 would be limited as people would have to move forwards to one of the few coaches at the platform to get off.

Whilst this happens at quite a few shorter platforms in SWR land, all the major stations can take the full length trains.

 

[Fazaar1889]

Whilst this happens at quite a few shorter platforms in SWR land, all the major stations can take the full length trains.

Happens at Fratton right?

I think

 

[The Ham]

Happens at Fratton right?

I think

Now you mention it, I think so too (not that I've been in a train heading to there for some time, so my memory could be playing tricks on me), there's certainly quite a few.

 

[Fazaar1889]

OK, here's a thought, could 24 carriage trains run? I saw on r/trains an Indian train with 24 carriages. Now that we want people away from cars, surely they might make trains super long?

 

[150249]

OK, here's a thought, could 24 carriage trains run? I saw on r/trains an Indian train with 24 carriages. Now that we want people away from cars, surely they might make trains super long?

Infrastructure can't accommodate. Thought we'd established that. Too expensive to lengthen every platform

 

[Fazaar1889]

Infrastructure can't accommodate. Thought we'd established that. Too expensive to lengthen every platform

Aw, that's sad. I don't know the exact length of the new HS2 station platforms, so what would be the theoretical limit? I know current infrastructure can't go beyond 13 but HS2 isn't built yet so we can have a little fun!

 

[hexagon789]

Aw, that's sad. I don't know the exact length of the new HS2 station platforms, so what would be the theoretical limit? I know current infrastructure can't go beyond 13 but HS2 isn't built yet so we can have a little fun!

16 will be the practical limit on HS2 proper - 404m.

(An Indian Railways train of 24 ICF coaches would be about 535m roughly, excluding the loco.)

 

[weeklycommuter]

Yes, but will it have 1st Class and/or a Restaurant Car?

Don't see why not. Likely even be three-class, given that's what Avanti currently offers and the existing Zefiro 300s in service with Trenitalia are actually four-class with a bistro car and are also eight coaches/200m.

If they are to deliver the promise of 550 seats for each eight coach 200 metre long unit they will have to be filled with 2+2 standard class seating.
The promises of the numbers of seats on trains between London and Birmingham are based on running 400 metre long trains each with 1,100 seats.

Trains - HS2

www.hs2.org.uk

400m long Each train will be around 200m long, with the option to couple two units together to create a 400m long train.
1,100 seats HS2’s state-of-the-art fleet of high-speed trains will each have 1,100 seats when two 200m units are added together.

 

[Fazaar1889]

16 will be the practical limit on HS2 proper - 404m.

(An Indian Railways train of 24 ICF coaches would be about 535m roughly, excluding the loco.)

Thank you!

 

[hexagon789]

If they are to deliver the promise of 550 seats for each eight coach 200 metre long unit they will have to be filled with 2+2 standard class seating.
The promises of the numbers of seats on trains between London and Birmingham are based on running 400 metre long trains each with 1,100 seats.

A question in parliament, used as a source on Wikipedia, states 'up to 528 seats'.

Trenitalia's sets with four classes seat 457.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Now that the project is only to be in operation between London and Birmingham, eight carriage trains will simply not be long enough. These will predominantly replace eleven carriage Pendolinos as the primary trains to Manchester, the North West and Glasgow. The plan was to work doubles to Glasgow utilising modified platforms at Preston and Carlisle (eliminating the bays in order to create long platforms), but Manchester and Liverpool services now need a new tactic. I think they'll have to look into longer trains.

 

[jfowkes]

Don't see why not. Likely even be three-class, given that's what Avanti currently offers and the existing Zefiro 300s in service with Trenitalia are actually four-class with a bistro car and are also eight coaches/200m.

Unlikely on the London-Birmingham captive services. 50-ish minute journey time, not really worth having a proper bistro/restaurant car. There'll be a walk up buffet or some vending machines.

 

[hexagon789]

Unlikely on the London-Birmingham captive services. 50-ish minute journey time, not really worth having a proper bistro/restaurant car. There'll be a walk up buffet or some vending machines.

I'd forgotten how short the Birmingham timing will be.

Is two different interiors likely though?

Or perhaps First will be abolished and only Std and Std Premium offered, with no inclusive catering and just a trolley/small buffet.

 

[Trainguy34]

Or perhaps First will be abolished and only Std and Std Premium offered, with no inclusive catering and just a trolley/small buffet.

I'd say reduced, especially since the timing may not be long enough to enjoy some of the benefit of 1st class or at least not much of it.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I'd say reduced, especially since the timing may not be long enough to enjoy some of the benefit of 1st class or at least not much of it.

You do know the trains will be going beyond Birmingham, even if the new infrastructure doesn't?

 

[Trainguy34]

You do know the trains will be going beyond Birmingham, even if the new infrastructure doesn't?

Oh yeah...

 

[a_c_skinner]

Rationally wouldn't the best length for the non-captive sets be the same as an 11 car Pendolino?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Rationally wouldn't the best length for the non-captive sets be the same as an 11 car Pendolino?

You'd think, but then 22x 23m may be too long for the planned HS2 stations.