CAF Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[Geeves]

Morning!

If it ended at Chester it still seems to be at Chester. No work allocated for today... Currently, saying that all the numbers appear to be missing.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Morning!

If it ended at Chester it still seems to be at Chester. No work allocated for today... Currently, saying that all the numbers appear to be missing.

Yes, and it was out yesterday unallocated in the system

 

[Geeves]

I will keep refreshing the Gemini to see if it shows anything! 107 is officially the Welsh Ghost for the day

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I will keep refreshing the Gemini to see if it shows anything! 107 is officially the Welsh Ghost for the day

Most kind; having said that, if it’s anything like the previous new /1s it will stay on Llandudno Manchesters for weeks on end Not much good to me up there!

 

[BenBracken]

Hopefully they will be able to improve the ride eventually....

The two main complaints about 197s seem to be the ride and the lack of window facing seats. Obviously the main priority is to deal with chronic overcrowding and lack of available seats in existing trains so we’re just going to have to get used to staring at pillars, but is there nothing they can do about the ride quality? Could they not upgrade suspension components around the bogies?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

A ridiculous proportion (something like 75%) of Manchester South Wales services are Sprinters today. I assume this is due to the recent pulling of some 197s from service in the wake of the thermal incident and the other thing they found.

 

[sd0733]

Do we know what 107 is on today please? I believe it ended in Chester. The 1030 off Manchester towards South Wales started in Chester and is oddly not showing with allocations just like 107 did yesterday. Is it possible it might be that?

Showing as:
10:38 Chester to Manchester
11:56 Manchester to Chester
13:01 Chestet to Crewe
13:29 Crewe to Holyhead
16:25 Holyhead to Cardiff

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Showing as:
10:38 Chester to Manchester
11:56 Manchester to Chester
13:01 Chestet to Crewe
13:29 Crewe to Holyhead
16:25 Holyhead to Cardiff

Ooh, a very happy me then. I’ve had to pull an all nighter due to a ridiculous amount of soon due uni work, and I’ll have to do it for most of today as well, winner 197107 will be a nice reward for the grafting Thanks as always.

 

[craigybagel]

A ridiculous proportion (something like 75%) of Manchester South Wales services are Sprinters today. I assume this is due to the recent pulling of some 197s from service in the wake of the thermal incident and the other thing they found.

Don't forget it's a Sunday, so there's already a higher proportion of Sprinters booked on the Marches to begin with. It won't be the only reason, but it will be part of it.

 

[Jez]

Don't forget it's a Sunday, so there's already a higher proportion of Sprinters booked on the Marches to begin with. It won't be the only reason, but it will be part of it.

I was thinking that it was because it was a Sunday. But long term i assume all Sunday diagrams aside from the 2 MK4 diagrams will have to be booked 197s. Even in the days of ATW there were 150s and 158s booked on a Sunday certainly the 1330 and 1430 off Manchester were regular Sprinters.

 

[sd0733]

I was thinking that it was because it was a Sunday. But long term i assume all Sunday diagrams aside from the 2 MK4 diagrams will have to be booked 197s.

Long term thats effectively a certainty as there'll be nothing else they can be!

Looking at todays diagrams, there's a pair of 153s on a Mk4 diagram, 2x150 covering a 3 car 197, a 150+153+153 covering a 2 car 197 and a 2 car 197 covering a 158. Everything else is as booked.

Ooh, a very happy me then. I’ve had to pull an all nighter due to a ridiculous amount of soon due uni work, and I’ll have to do it for most of today as well, winner 197107 will be a nice reward for the grafting Thanks as always.

No problem. Hopefully it doesn't swap in the meantime!

 

[Jez]

Long term thats effectively a certainty as there'll be nothing else they can be!

Thats exactly what in was thinking! Although a Sunday without Sprinters seems difficult to imagine! lol

 

[Lurcheroo]

Long term thats effectively a certainty as there'll be nothing else they can be!

Looking at todays diagrams, there's a pair of 153s on a Mk4 diagram, 2x150 covering a 3 car 197, a 150+153+153 covering a 2 car 197 and a 2 car 197 covering a 158. Everything else is as booked.

Interesting, so excluding the 153’s Vice MK4 which is an obvious shirt forming, the others are as booked or have more coaches, and overall being a bit of a capacity uplift.

 

[Jez]

Interesting, so excluding the 153’s Vice MK4 which is an obvious shirt forming, the others are as booked or have more coaches, and overall being a bit of a capacity uplift.

Certainly a bonus having more carriages when a unit is subbed. I travelled on a 5 car formation back in November on a Sunday (158 and 3 x 153) from Manchester to Neath and was surprised just how busy it was. Would have been rammed as just a 2 car. I obviously went in the 158 until it was detached at Cardiff!

 

[Lurcheroo]

Certainly a bonus having more carriages when a unit is subbed. I travelled on a 5 car formation back in November on a Sunday (158 and 3 x 153) from Manchester to Neath and was surprised just how busy it was. Would have been rammed as just a 2 car. I obviously went in the 158 until it was detached at Cardiff!

Absolutely a bonus ! I’d have done the same haha !
Most people on here seem happy with the 197’s but elsewhere I see lots of complaints and people want the 175’s to have stayed with a reduced order of 197’s but a lack of interoperability would just lead to more short formings when things go wrong, which we all know is far too often.

Honestly I wish there was better rules around stock interoperability. One example being 195,196,197 can’t be inter worked. 195’s as the electrical box is in different place, 196 and 197 due to software. These units crossover so at least useful in a rescue situation.

 

[craigybagel]

Absolutely a bonus ! I’d have done the same haha !
Most people on here seem happy with the 197’s but elsewhere I see lots of complaints and people want the 175’s to have stayed with a reduced order of 197’s but a lack of interoperability would just lead to more short formings when things go wrong, which we all know is far too often.

Honestly I wish there was better rules around stock interoperability. One example being 195,196,197 can’t be inter worked. 195’s as the electrical box is in different place, 196 and 197 due to software. These units crossover so at least useful in a rescue situation.

196s and 197s can rescue each other and run at up to 75mph when coupled (which by happy coincidence is also the highest line speed of any section of track where you'll find both units). There's even a special button on the TCMS just for that eventuality.

 

[Lurcheroo]

196s and 197s can rescue each other and run at up to 75mph when coupled (which by happy coincidence is also the highest line speed of any section of track where you'll find both units). There's even a special button on the TCMS just for that eventuality.

Ohh thank you for that ! I was told it’s not allowed at all in training not that I sign that route anyway

 

[tomoufc]

Absolutely a bonus ! I’d have done the same haha !
Most people on here seem happy with the 197’s but elsewhere I see lots of complaints and people want the 175’s to have stayed with a reduced order of 197’s but a lack of interoperability would just lead to more short formings when things go wrong, which we all know is far too often.

Honestly I wish there was better rules around stock interoperability. One example being 195,196,197 can’t be inter worked. 195’s as the electrical box is in different place, 196 and 197 due to software. These units crossover so at least useful in a rescue situation.

Interoperability would create a genuine market, which would reduce ROSCOS’ monopoly profits

 

[Rhydgaled]

Looking at todays diagrams, there's a pair of 153s on a Mk4 diagram, 2x150 covering a 3 car 197, a 150+153+153 covering a 2 car 197 and a 2 car 197 covering a 158. Everything else is as booked.

Interesting, so excluding the 153’s Vice MK4 which is an obvious shirt forming, the others are as booked or have more coaches, and overall being a bit of a capacity uplift.

Pedantically a 2-car 197 covering a 158, while the same number of coaches, could be considered a 'short form' since a 158 has more of just about everything except standing room* and legroom.

* even then, the franchise documents show a total capacity (seated+standing) increase of just 3 passengers between a 197 and a 158 (class 197/0 capacity = 202, class 158 capacity = 199) - remember those numbers include standing

 

[craigybagel]

Ohh thank you for that ! I was told it’s not allowed at all in training not that I sign that route anyway

I don't know if they ever got around to testing it, so it may not actually be approved yet! But it should work in theory. From what I remember because of the incompatibility with the TCMS you mentioned earlier you revert to purely friction braking, and as per with a solo 197 in that situation you have a 75mph limit.

 

[FrodshamJnct]

I heard that the ride quality improved on the 195s after bedding in. Could be the same for the 197s (as they’re essentially the same)?

I’ve been travelling on 195s since they were first introduced and I haven’t noticed that.

 

[317 forever]

A ridiculous proportion (something like 75%) of Manchester South Wales services are Sprinters today. I assume this is due to the recent pulling of some 197s from service in the wake of the thermal incident and the other thing they found.

Shortly after 17.00 yesterday I saw a TfW 150 pull into Stockport platform 3.

Maybe this has affected the whole weekend at least.

 

[Lurcheroo]

Pedantically a 2-car 197 covering a 158, while the same number of coaches, could be considered a 'short form' since a 158 has more of just about everything except standing room* and legroom.

* even then, the franchise documents show a total capacity (seated+standing) increase of just 3 passengers between a 197 and a 158 (class 197/0 capacity = 202, class 158 capacity = 199) - remember those numbers include standing

I almost wrote “I’ll wait for someone to point out the 18 less seats on a 2 car 197 vs 2car 158
For me, if the service becomes full and standing even a 2 car 158 (about the biggest disparity vs a 197 as far as I can see) wouldn’t be sufficient to prevent the overcrowding.

 

[BenBracken]

A ridiculous proportion (something like 75%) of Manchester South Wales services are Sprinters today. I assume this is due to the recent pulling of some 197s from service in the wake of the thermal incident and the other thing they found.

The ‘boat train’ from Fishguard to Cardiff was a 197 today, but a similarly timed Milford - Manchester was a 4 car 150 set!

 

[sd0733]

The ‘boat train’ from Fishguard to Cardiff was a 197 today, but a similarly timed Milford - Manchester was a 4 car 150 set!

On a Sunday the Fishguard is effectively a through working to Holyhead with just a few minutes hanging round in Cardiff. The Manchesters get extremely busy on a Sunday so the capacity of 2 150s is needed.

 

[craigybagel]

The ‘boat train’ from Fishguard to Cardiff was a 197 today, but a similarly timed Milford - Manchester was a 4 car 150 set!

On a Sunday the Fishguard is effectively a through working to Holyhead with just a few minutes hanging round in Cardiff. The Manchesters get extremely busy on a Sunday so the capacity of 2 150s is needed.

The won't have been many people on the boat train this week either - there's no boat for it to meet!

 

[tomoufc]

On a Sunday the Fishguard is effectively a through working to Holyhead with just a few minutes hanging round in Cardiff. The Manchesters get extremely busy on a Sunday so the capacity of 2 150s is needed.

Indeed. And until all the 197s are on roster, I’d prefer that they run a pair of 150s ahead of a single 197 on busy services. Most passengers don’t pay much attention to the kind of rolling stock they’re on (and most are making shorter journeys anyway), but all notice having to stand.

 

[Topological]

Indeed. And until all the 197s are on roster, I’d prefer that they run a pair of 150s ahead of a single 197 on busy services. Most passengers don’t pay much attention to the kind of rolling stock they’re on (and most are making shorter journeys anyway), but all notice having to stand.

Yes, it is the 2-car 150s that manage to be the worst of all worlds.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Indeed. And until all the 197s are on roster, I’d prefer that they run a pair of 150s ahead of a single 197 on busy services. Most passengers don’t pay much attention to the kind of rolling stock they’re on [ ] but all notice having to stand.

I suppose it's better to sit on a 150 than to stand on a 197.

(and most are making shorter journeys anyway)

Do you have a source to back up this assertion, speaking as a Cardiff resident who has used to travel on 2.5-3.5 hour journeys to Whitland, Pembroke and Shrewsbury more times than I'd be able to count in the last few months?

 

[Caaardiff]

Is there an update on the cause of the fire on 197104?