Eurostar collecting Advance Passenger Information

[Teebs]

I suppose if you use the EU passport all the time they might think you are an overstayer, but if you can prove you are a UK citizen then what's the problem? Maybe there is no reason to renew the UK passport. You could just carry around an expired one if you ever get questioned by UK border staff.

I suppose so. I think I'd probably just renew the UK one though.

Anyway, in my case my EU passport is one of the 2004 joiners, so if I'm going outside Europe I tend to use the UK one as it's stronger.

 

[riceuten]

Long before Brexit, the UK government has always stood out amongst non-Schengen nations in not conducting exit passport checks at airports and ferry terminals. It was a cost cutting measure dependent on the airlines providing accurate information and checking travel documents. Had the UK really wanted to “take back control” of its borders it could have started years ago by employing the Border Force to conduct proper exit checks. /politics

For some bizarre reason, the Daily Mail become extremely agitated about this at one point (along with "overtravellers" claiming asylum after buying a Brussels - Lille ticket) wanting people to be "counted out" of the UK - I've never really understood why they wanted this.

 

[Goldfish62]

For some bizarre reason, the Daily Mail become extremely agitated about this at one point (along with "overtravellers" claiming asylum after buying a Brussels - Lille ticket) wanting people to be "counted out" of the UK - I've never really understood why they wanted this.

Because it's the Daily Mail.

 

[Cloud Strife]

I suppose if you use the EU passport all the time they might think you are an overstayer, but if you can prove you are a UK citizen then what's the problem? Maybe there is no reason to renew the UK passport. You could just carry around an expired one if you ever get questioned by UK border staff.

It is technically illegal to use a non-British passport (not necessarily a UK one, as there are other British passports issued to British citizens) to enter the UK, but in practice, they're quite indifferent about it. I used to use my Polish ID card all the time rather than bother carrying my British passport, and only once did they get a bit funny about it.

For some bizarre reason, the Daily Mail become extremely agitated about this at one point (along with "overtravellers" claiming asylum after buying a Brussels - Lille ticket) wanting people to be "counted out" of the UK - I've never really understood why they wanted this.

The problem with exit checks (and API) is that the UK has no way of registering who actually leaves through non-UK airports. The Channel Islands, Isle of Man and Ireland aren't sharing data with the UK automatically, although there is apparently a new agreement between the UK and Ireland relating to API between the two countries.

One of the interesting absurdities is with the Irish border. The UK finally accepted that it's not really possible to stop EU citizens from using their ID cards throughout the island, so if you fly into the RoI, you can go into Northern Ireland (but not GB) with just your EU ID card. You need your passport to go from Northern Ireland into Great Britain, although this isn't checked.

 

[johncrossley]

The UK finally accepted that it's not really possible to stop EU citizens from using their ID cards throughout the island, so if you fly into the RoI, you can go into Northern Ireland (but not GB) with just your EU ID card.

Has this rule just changed? Can you show a link?

 

[Cloud Strife]

Has this rule just changed? Can you show a link?

Yes, it's from here: https://www.ireland.com/en-gb/help-and-advice/practical-information/visas-and-passports/ and https://www.gov.uk/uk-border-control/before-you-leave-for-the-uk - check under "You’re from the EU, Switzerland, Norway, Iceland or Liechtenstein" and then "If you’re travelling from Ireland to Northern Ireland"

It's been kept quiet, but essentially, it was quietly accepted that it was completely unworkable to require the ETA and passports from EU citizens crossing the Irish border. It would require huge resources on the part of the UK to patrol it, and the Irish Gardai would have had zero interest in checking EU citizens who could legally cross in the NI->RoI direction.

Of course, the logical thing would be to continue to accept biometric EU ID cards for travel to the whole of the UK, but the UK fear of a secure form of identifying yourself continues.

 

[AlbertBeale]

I travelled London-Brussels and back in recent days. I bought the tickets a few months ago and got the ticket PDFs with no request for advance passport info.

I did get an e-mail not long before I left London, which turned out to be telling me that it was _essential_ that I gave them that information before travel. However, I don't always keep up to date with my e-mails prior to travelling, and when travelling (and why should Eurostar assume I do?!). Having got the tickets safely, I didn't consider giving them any extra info before travelling; indeed, I doubt I'd have bothered even if I had been up to date with my e-mails!

My check-ins at both ends were as unremarkable as always (both ticket scans at the gates, and passport checks).

As some of us assumed, there is and can be nothing retrospective about the API requests.

I realise of course that any future ticket purchases will require filling in that extra info before the tickets will be issued. But since the ticket check and the passport checks are separate, and at no stage do you ever have to show both together, I'm not sure what extra assurance this system brings. Or is it the case that the passport booths will check your passport against not only their lists of wanted people (etc etc), but will also check them against the list they'll have of the APIs of that day's travellers? I'm a bit unclear how this will work. Surely you could still buy a ticket in someone else's name (albeit needing to give relevant passport details to match that name), but use a passport in another name when you travel?

And what if you have two valid passports, and quote one for the API and use the other to travel? Would the system pick up on that? So much of the system of checks seems to be based on theatre and deterrence rather than guaranteed security.

Having said all that, on my return to London the other night, on the last train from Brussels, as everyone was being sent down the travellator near the front of the train to access the arrivals area, an official announced to people reaching the lower level that they'd need to get their passports out for inspection, since there was an arrivals check. I've never had that happen to me since the early days of Eurostar. Looking along the queues moving slowly towards a handful of what seemed to be manual and rather basic passport booths set up at the far end of that area, I noticed that the check was simply a quick glance at the passport, and at the passenger, and nothing more. But by the time I was halfway along, the people staffing the booths stepped down and told everyone the checks were over, and the queues speeded up. I assumed that if they were looking for someone specific, then they'd found them. Interestingly, the train had slowed right down a couple of times between the tunnel and London, and came to a complete stop around Ashford for a brief period; maybe that was to allow time for the reception to be set up and staffed at St P? This was a service ex-Amsterdam, via Rotterdam and Lille as well as Brussels, so perhaps carrying intra-Schengen passengers leading to suspicious that there was an intra-Schengen passenger who hadn't left the train?

 

[Goldfish62]

I travelled London-Brussels and back in recent days. I bought the tickets a few months ago and got the ticket PDFs with no request for advance passport info.

I did get an e-mail not long before I left London, which turned out to be telling me that it was _essential_ that I gave them that information before travel. However, I don't always keep up to date with my e-mails prior to travelling, and when travelling (and why should Eurostar assume I do?!). Having got the tickets safely, I didn't consider giving them any extra info before travelling; indeed, I doubt I'd have bothered even if I had been up to date with my e-mails!

My check-ins at both ends were as unremarkable as always (both ticket scans at the gates, and passport checks).

As some of us assumed, there is and can be nothing retrospective about the API requests.

I realise of course that any future ticket purchases will require filling in that extra info before the tickets will be issued. But since the ticket check and the passport checks are separate, and at no stage do you ever have to show both together, I'm not sure what extra assurance this system brings. Or is it the case that the passport booths will check your passport against not only their lists of wanted people (etc etc), but will also check them against the list they'll have of the APIs of that day's travellers? I'm a bit unclear how this will work. Surely you could still buy a ticket in someone else's name (albeit needing to give relevant passport details to match that name), but use a passport in another name when you travel?

And what if you have two valid passports, and quote one for the API and use the other to travel? Would the system pick up on that? So much of the system of checks seems to be based on theatre and deterrence rather than guaranteed security.

Having said all that, on my return to London the other night, on the last train from Brussels, as everyone was being sent down the travellator near the front of the train to access the arrivals area, an official announced to people reaching the lower level that they'd need to get their passports out for inspection, since there was an arrivals check. I've never had that happen to me since the early days of Eurostar. Looking along the queues moving slowly towards a handful of what seemed to be manual and rather basic passport booths set up at the far end of that area, I noticed that the check was simply a quick glance at the passport, and at the passenger, and nothing more. But by the time I was halfway along, the people staffing the booths stepped down and told everyone the checks were over, and the queues speeded up. I assumed that if they were looking for someone specific, then they'd found them. Interestingly, the train had slowed right down a couple of times between the tunnel and London, and came to a complete stop around Ashford for a brief period; maybe that was to allow time for the reception to be set up and staffed at St P? This was a service ex-Amsterdam, via Rotterdam and Lille as well as Brussels, so perhaps carrying intra-Schengen passengers leading to suspicious that there was an intra-Schengen passenger who hadn't left the train?

On a trip around 2018-19 my train back from Brussels was put in the loop at Stratford, reason given that the train in front was having passport checks carried out at St Pancras. We ended up arriving at St Pancras 15 min late as a result.

 

[KnobbyGB]

Long before Brexit, the UK government has always stood out amongst non-Schengen nations in not conducting exit passport checks at airports and ferry terminals. It was a cost cutting measure dependent on the airlines providing accurate information and checking travel documents. Had the UK really wanted to “take back control” of its borders it could have started years ago by employing the Border Force to conduct proper exit checks. /politics

I noticed this recently when travelling by air. I travel Athens-UK and back several times a year. Until now there has been API collected for the inbound journey but nothing going the other way (presumably due to the lack of formal exit-checks). However on my recent EDI-ATH flight in February, API was required during online-check-in. So, it seems to be a more general move to proper exit checks.

 

[zero]

I noticed this recently when travelling by air. I travel Athens-UK and back several times a year. Until now there has been API collected for the inbound journey but nothing going the other way (presumably due to the lack of formal exit-checks). However on my recent EDI-ATH flight in February, API was required during online-check-in. So, it seems to be a more general move to proper exit checks.

The UK collects API on all flights, in both directions, between the UK and outside the CTA, and has done so for at least a decade. What makes you think that it wasn't collected?

API may not always be verified against a physical document, that doesn't mean it isn't collected. For example when I've flown to and from Greece on BA and Aegean, as I never have checked bags, I use a mobile BP and put my passport details into the API during online check in.

No human verifies those details at the airport (they only check that my passport name and ticket name match on boarding). I can use a different passport from the one I put into the API, and have done so - but ETIAS will put a stop to that unless both passports have an ETIAS.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm fairly sure easyJet prints the passport number on the boarding card and there is (at least nominally) a gate check that they match. I'm almost certain I saw someone stopped over that once.

Some staff may be lax, though.

 

[Wolfie]

If that's how it will go, why bother with the online API? It's just an extra step with the situation at St Pancras being the same

To permit the Home Office to be better able to prevent certain people travelling in future Syria/Afghanistan etc scenarios at a guess.

 

[Brooke]

Just one additional note: I have the iProov.me set up and so far I have not been asked for API.

Whereas my wife does not have iProov.me and has been asked for API.

So it seems common sense applies and having iProov.me does not require to provide API again.

Although I wonder if iProov.me might be withdrawn in future as the new processes come in.

Update on my own post: I am also now being asked for API even while having iProov.me live.

Does anyone know if & how you can save the API info to avoid retyping it every time you travel?

 

[AdamWW]

This was a service ex-Amsterdam, via Rotterdam and Lille as well as Brussels, so perhaps carrying intra-Schengen passengers leading to suspicious that there was an intra-Schengen passenger who hadn't left the train?

It would only have been carrying passengers to the UK.

 

[AlbertBeale]

It would only have been carrying passengers to the UK.

I'm sure I saw passengers getting off the train after it arrived - as usual people departing from Brussels for London were let up to the through platform a little while before the train arrived, and people appeared from somewhere a few coaches further up (who looked like arrivals) just after the doors were unlocked.

 

[rvdborgt]

I'm sure I saw passengers getting off the train after it arrived - as usual people departing from Brussels for London were let up to the through platform a little while before the train arrived, and people appeared from somewhere a few coaches further up (who looked like arrivals) just after the doors were unlocked.

They haven't sold tickets Netherlands-Belgium on those trains for more than a year (or was it 2 years) now. But I could imagine that they sometimes put stranded Thalys^WEurostar Red passengers on them.

 

[AlbertBeale]

They haven't sold tickets Netherlands-Belgium on those trains for more than a year (or was it 2 years) now. But I could imagine that they sometimes put stranded Thalys^WEurostar Red passengers on them.

Ah - thanks - maybe that was it. (Or maybe I was mistaken in the dark...)

 

[AY1975]

The Eurostar for agents page says the API will be mandatory from 1st April and will need to be filled upon booking.

The Eurostar website only says you need to provide your API as soon as possible before departure, and you won't be able to get your tickets until you have done so (which is what others in this thread also seem to suggest).

If you only need to fill it in at some point between booking and departure, then presumably if at the time of booking you don't have a current passport but have applied for one, it wouldn't be a problem making a booking before you've received your new passport.

If, however, you do need to provide your API at the time of booking, then presumably you can't make a booking until your new passport has arrived, and that means if there are still some cheap tickets available now, they might have sold out by the time your passport arrives.

That is, assuming that there isn't an option to specify that you've applied for a new passport and are waiting for it to arrive (and if you have an expired passport or one with not enough validity left on it and you give your expired passport number, then you'd think that in this day and age they could check that against the database of passport applications received).

I presume you will also be asked for your API if you use a booking site other than the Eurostar site, such as Rail Europe, SNCB International or NS International.

 

[zero]

If, however, you do need to provide your API at the time of booking, then presumably you can't make a booking until your new passport has arrived, and that means if there are still some cheap tickets available now, they might have sold out by the time your passport arrives.

I don't believe Eurostar verifies that the passport information is accurate until you actually turn up for travel - even airlines don't

 

[Trainbike46]

you can book without providing API immediately

 

[AdamWW]

you can book without providing API immediately

Good to hear, but not surprising.

Given that this is how airlines work, at least in my experience, I'm not sure why they'd want to shoot themselves in the foot by making it harder to book a Eurostar ticket than a plane ticket.

 

[Chester1]

Yes, it's from here: https://www.ireland.com/en-gb/help-and-advice/practical-information/visas-and-passports/ and https://www.gov.uk/uk-border-control/before-you-leave-for-the-uk - check under "You’re from the EU, Switzerland, Norway, Iceland or Liechtenstein" and then "If you’re travelling from Ireland to Northern Ireland"

It's been kept quiet, but essentially, it was quietly accepted that it was completely unworkable to require the ETA and passports from EU citizens crossing the Irish border. It would require huge resources on the part of the UK to patrol it, and the Irish Gardai would have had zero interest in checking EU citizens who could legally cross in the NI->RoI direction.

Of course, the logical thing would be to continue to accept biometric EU ID cards for travel to the whole of the UK, but the UK fear of a secure form of identifying yourself continues.

Very late in seeing this post.

Problems at the UK-Ireland land border seem to be overwhelming North to South currrently..... There was a lot of white privilege in EU complaining about EU citizens being subject to UK ETA visiting Northern Ireland. Non european residents of UK and Ireland need full visas to visit each others countries. Its completely unnecessary and much more of a problem than spending 5 minutes filling a form. There was a major incident flagged in a report by an Irish parliamentary committee were request for Northern Irish ambulances was made but there were none within a reasonable travel time were all staff onboard had the right to enter the republic! Its slightly bizarre that UK and Ireland jointly issue visas together to Chinese and Indian tourists but each others high skilled workers require full visit visas. A lot the quirks in our border system e.g. API won't be resolved until there is a united Ireland and UK and Ireland can have normal border controls.

I think it was stated around the time of the brexit negotiations that the EU gave the UK a choice of accepting all EU ID cards or none. Cherry picking biometric only would breach the terms of the Trade and Co-operation agreement because it would mean unequal treatment of EU citizens. Following an EU law in 2021 all EU ID cards, including those issued by embassies and consulates are biometric but it will taken until 2031 until all in circulation are biometric. Until then all the non biometric cards, especially paper based national ID will be a target for fraud.

 

[poffle]

Very late in seeing this post.

Problems at the UK-Ireland land border seem to be overwhelming North to South currrently..... There was a lot of white privilege in EU complaining about EU citizens being subject to UK ETA visiting Northern Ireland. Non european residents of UK and Ireland need full visas to visit each others countries. Its completely unnecessary and much more of a problem than spending 5 minutes filling a form. There was a major incident flagged in a report by an Irish parliamentary committee were request for Northern Irish ambulances was made but there were none within a reasonable travel time were all staff onboard had the right to enter the republic! Its slightly bizarre that UK and Ireland jointly issue visas together to Chinese and Indian tourists but each others high skilled workers require full visit visas. A lot the quirks in our border system e.g. API won't be resolved until there is a united Ireland and UK and Ireland can have normal border controls.

I think it was stated around the time of the brexit negotiations that the EU gave the UK a choice of accepting all EU ID cards or none. Cherry picking biometric only would breach the terms of the Trade and Co-operation agreement because it would mean unequal treatment of EU citizens. Following an EU law in 2021 all EU ID cards, including those issued by embassies and consulates are biometric but it will taken until 2031 until all in circulation are biometric. Until then all the non biometric cards, especially paper based national ID will be a target for fraud.

The ambulance story was quickly refuted as false by the ambulance services.

People living in Donegal need to pass through Northern Ireland to access healthcare etc. in Dublin.

Generally people in NI don't need to cross the border to get to anywhere else in NI.

 

[dutchflyer]

The Eurostar website only says you need to provide your API as soon as possible before departure, and you won't be able to get your tickets until you have done so (which is what others in this thread also seem to suggest).

I presume you will also be asked for your API if you use a booking site other than the Eurostar site, such as Rail Europe, SNCB International or NS International.

Own experience-currently on day 36 of a 2-MO INterRail and sitting in a strike-hit UK-station-to travel back on €* in a few days on that pass-booked via RailEurope (went very smooth) some time ago (thats what one gets booking to far advance-these strikes get only announced later)-this did NOT want to have all that personal extra info. RailEU also still accepts my former IR-pass nr from last yr-I noted that right now on the current pass they do not do that I+7-8 digits anymore-still keep the code given out when buying. FLew on that very cheap airline into MAN a few days ago=was lower priced as the 35€ to pay extra on the pass.......
having just read first part of this topic then I assumed I had to wait to get the ticket printed (yes, old fashioned style), but this turned out not to be the case.
Got an @mail from €* themselves yesterday=Bank Holiday to provide that extra API-info, so duly did.
It also stated as above I would not be able to get the ticket till done-which as such turned out to be not the case here as I had it already.
BTW-impressed at how well all gate-staff know about this pass and how to handle-always very welcoming.

 

[Chester1]

The ambulance story was quickly refuted as false by the ambulance services.

People living in Donegal need to pass through Northern Ireland to access healthcare etc. in Dublin.

Generally people in NI don't need to cross the border to get to anywhere else in NI.

Depending on their nationality some non EU citizen living in Donegal would need a full visit visa to do that journey on the direct route. The Irish and EU objections to applying ETIAS to Northern Ireland were tourists and residents. A visa waiver agreement for residents of UK and Ireland is long over due. An Indian Doctor in Belfast or Dublin shouldn’t need a full visit visa to go to a conference or on a weekend break in the other country. If a visa waiver is unacceptable for EU residents a full visa should be for non european residents from poorer countries.

Personally I would end the Common Travel Area if there is a united Ireland and offer something like the Trans Tasmin Agreement.

 

[Wolfie]

Depending on their nationality some non EU citizen living in Donegal would need a full visit visa to do that journey on the direct route. The Irish and EU objections to applying ETIAS to Northern Ireland were tourists and residents. A visa waiver agreement for residents of UK and Ireland is long over due. An Indian Doctor in Belfast or Dublin shouldn’t need a full visit visa to go to a conference or on a weekend break in the other country. If a visa waiver is unacceptable for EU residents a full visa should be for non european residents from poorer countries.

Personally I would end the Common Travel Area if there is a united Ireland and offer something like the Trans Tasmin Agreement.

Re your last para the CTA predates the EU and as such certain things are permitted which might not be in the event that it is replaced. Ireland would not be allowed to circumvent wider EU policy. Neither Australia nor New Zealand are in an international body such as the EU.

 

[Chester1]

Re your last para the CTA predates the EU and as such certain things are permitted which might not be in the event that it is replaced. Ireland would not be allowed to circumvent wider EU policy. Neither Australia nor New Zealand are in an international body such as the EU.

If there was a binary choice after a united Ireland between continuation of the CTA in its current form or scrapping it entirely I would prefer the latter. People born in Northern Ireland would still have the option of having British citizenship to avoid needing a visa to live in the UK. I suspect the EU would agree to a Trans Tasman style agreement if it was part of the treaty that handed over Northern Ireland. It would allow Ireland to join Schengen without severing all immigration rights with the UK. As this thread demonstrates the border control systems of UK and Ireland are messy. Its unavoidable while Northern Ireland is in the UK but not if (or when) it leaves.

 

[Wolfie]

If there was a binary choice after a united Ireland between continuation of the CTA in its current form or scrapping it entirely I would prefer the latter. People born in Northern Ireland would still have the option of having British citizenship to avoid needing a visa to live in the UK. I suspect the EU would agree to a Trans Tasman style agreement if it was part of the treaty that handed over Northern Ireland. It would allow Ireland to join Schengen without severing all immigration rights with the UK. As this thread demonstrates the border control systems of UK and Ireland are messy. Its unavoidable while Northern Ireland is in the UK but not if (or when) it leaves.

That rather assumes that Ireland wishes to be part of Schengen. Recent events rather suggest that the population do not.

I suspect that lots of people who voted for Brexit never imagined that the loss of Northern Ireland could follow.

 

[Chester1]

That rather assumes that Ireland wishes to be part of Schengen. Recent events rather suggest that the population do not.

I suspect that lots of people who voted for Brexit never imagined that the loss of Northern Ireland could follow.

Ireland is committed to ever closer union and they won’t want to be seen as the new "cherry pickers." The governing coalition seems to want to join the new migration pact in full, despite an opt out because of solidarity. It won't look good if Ireland avoids joining Schengen when it doesn't have a good reason.

A united Ireland won’t be a consequence of brexit. Its been coming slowly since partition because of demographic shift. Within a generation there will be a clear majority of residents who identify primarily as Irish. Brexit hasn't meaningfully changed the border situation for people.

 

[nw1]

One of the interesting absurdities is with the Irish border. The UK finally accepted that it's not really possible to stop EU citizens from using their ID cards throughout the island, so if you fly into the RoI, you can go into Northern Ireland (but not GB) with just your EU ID card. You need your passport to go from Northern Ireland into Great Britain, although this isn't checked.

Do you need a passport to go from NI to GB? Is that even allowed, given they are part of the same country?

So NI residents cannot visit GB if they don't have a passport, even if they travel by boat?

In fact I didn't think you needed a passport to travel to and from the Republic, let alone NI. I always took the CTA to be a free movement zone.

That rather assumes that Ireland wishes to be part of Schengen. Recent events rather suggest that the population do not.

I suspect that lots of people who voted for Brexit never imagined that the loss of Northern Ireland could follow.

While I see the benefits of a united Ireland, I suspect the resentment would be immense if you needed a visa waiver to visit Belfast from the UK if you're not NI-born. I suspect a united Ireland could happen, but it won't join Schengen if so.