Eurostar collecting Advance Passenger Information

[Teebs]

I suppose if you use the EU passport all the time they might think you are an overstayer, but if you can prove you are a UK citizen then what's the problem? Maybe there is no reason to renew the UK passport. You could just carry around an expired one if you ever get questioned by UK border staff.

I suppose so. I think I'd probably just renew the UK one though.

Anyway, in my case my EU passport is one of the 2004 joiners, so if I'm going outside Europe I tend to use the UK one as it's stronger.

 

[riceuten]

Long before Brexit, the UK government has always stood out amongst non-Schengen nations in not conducting exit passport checks at airports and ferry terminals. It was a cost cutting measure dependent on the airlines providing accurate information and checking travel documents. Had the UK really wanted to “take back control” of its borders it could have started years ago by employing the Border Force to conduct proper exit checks. /politics

For some bizarre reason, the Daily Mail become extremely agitated about this at one point (along with "overtravellers" claiming asylum after buying a Brussels - Lille ticket) wanting people to be "counted out" of the UK - I've never really understood why they wanted this.

 

[Goldfish62]

For some bizarre reason, the Daily Mail become extremely agitated about this at one point (along with "overtravellers" claiming asylum after buying a Brussels - Lille ticket) wanting people to be "counted out" of the UK - I've never really understood why they wanted this.

Because it's the Daily Mail.

 

[Cloud Strife]

I suppose if you use the EU passport all the time they might think you are an overstayer, but if you can prove you are a UK citizen then what's the problem? Maybe there is no reason to renew the UK passport. You could just carry around an expired one if you ever get questioned by UK border staff.

It is technically illegal to use a non-British passport (not necessarily a UK one, as there are other British passports issued to British citizens) to enter the UK, but in practice, they're quite indifferent about it. I used to use my Polish ID card all the time rather than bother carrying my British passport, and only once did they get a bit funny about it.

For some bizarre reason, the Daily Mail become extremely agitated about this at one point (along with "overtravellers" claiming asylum after buying a Brussels - Lille ticket) wanting people to be "counted out" of the UK - I've never really understood why they wanted this.

The problem with exit checks (and API) is that the UK has no way of registering who actually leaves through non-UK airports. The Channel Islands, Isle of Man and Ireland aren't sharing data with the UK automatically, although there is apparently a new agreement between the UK and Ireland relating to API between the two countries.

One of the interesting absurdities is with the Irish border. The UK finally accepted that it's not really possible to stop EU citizens from using their ID cards throughout the island, so if you fly into the RoI, you can go into Northern Ireland (but not GB) with just your EU ID card. You need your passport to go from Northern Ireland into Great Britain, although this isn't checked.

 

[johncrossley]

The UK finally accepted that it's not really possible to stop EU citizens from using their ID cards throughout the island, so if you fly into the RoI, you can go into Northern Ireland (but not GB) with just your EU ID card.

Has this rule just changed? Can you show a link?

 

[Cloud Strife]

Has this rule just changed? Can you show a link?

Yes, it's from here: https://www.ireland.com/en-gb/help-and-advice/practical-information/visas-and-passports/ and https://www.gov.uk/uk-border-control/before-you-leave-for-the-uk - check under "You’re from the EU, Switzerland, Norway, Iceland or Liechtenstein" and then "If you’re travelling from Ireland to Northern Ireland"

It's been kept quiet, but essentially, it was quietly accepted that it was completely unworkable to require the ETA and passports from EU citizens crossing the Irish border. It would require huge resources on the part of the UK to patrol it, and the Irish Gardai would have had zero interest in checking EU citizens who could legally cross in the NI->RoI direction.

Of course, the logical thing would be to continue to accept biometric EU ID cards for travel to the whole of the UK, but the UK fear of a secure form of identifying yourself continues.

 

[AlbertBeale]

I travelled London-Brussels and back in recent days. I bought the tickets a few months ago and got the ticket PDFs with no request for advance passport info.

I did get an e-mail not long before I left London, which turned out to be telling me that it was _essential_ that I gave them that information before travel. However, I don't always keep up to date with my e-mails prior to travelling, and when travelling (and why should Eurostar assume I do?!). Having got the tickets safely, I didn't consider giving them any extra info before travelling; indeed, I doubt I'd have bothered even if I had been up to date with my e-mails!

My check-ins at both ends were as unremarkable as always (both ticket scans at the gates, and passport checks).

As some of us assumed, there is and can be nothing retrospective about the API requests.

I realise of course that any future ticket purchases will require filling in that extra info before the tickets will be issued. But since the ticket check and the passport checks are separate, and at no stage do you ever have to show both together, I'm not sure what extra assurance this system brings. Or is it the case that the passport booths will check your passport against not only their lists of wanted people (etc etc), but will also check them against the list they'll have of the APIs of that day's travellers? I'm a bit unclear how this will work. Surely you could still buy a ticket in someone else's name (albeit needing to give relevant passport details to match that name), but use a passport in another name when you travel?

And what if you have two valid passports, and quote one for the API and use the other to travel? Would the system pick up on that? So much of the system of checks seems to be based on theatre and deterrence rather than guaranteed security.

Having said all that, on my return to London the other night, on the last train from Brussels, as everyone was being sent down the travellator near the front of the train to access the arrivals area, an official announced to people reaching the lower level that they'd need to get their passports out for inspection, since there was an arrivals check. I've never had that happen to me since the early days of Eurostar. Looking along the queues moving slowly towards a handful of what seemed to be manual and rather basic passport booths set up at the far end of that area, I noticed that the check was simply a quick glance at the passport, and at the passenger, and nothing more. But by the time I was halfway along, the people staffing the booths stepped down and told everyone the checks were over, and the queues speeded up. I assumed that if they were looking for someone specific, then they'd found them. Interestingly, the train had slowed right down a couple of times between the tunnel and London, and came to a complete stop around Ashford for a brief period; maybe that was to allow time for the reception to be set up and staffed at St P? This was a service ex-Amsterdam, via Rotterdam and Lille as well as Brussels, so perhaps carrying intra-Schengen passengers leading to suspicious that there was an intra-Schengen passenger who hadn't left the train?

 

[Goldfish62]

I travelled London-Brussels and back in recent days. I bought the tickets a few months ago and got the ticket PDFs with no request for advance passport info.

I did get an e-mail not long before I left London, which turned out to be telling me that it was _essential_ that I gave them that information before travel. However, I don't always keep up to date with my e-mails prior to travelling, and when travelling (and why should Eurostar assume I do?!). Having got the tickets safely, I didn't consider giving them any extra info before travelling; indeed, I doubt I'd have bothered even if I had been up to date with my e-mails!

My check-ins at both ends were as unremarkable as always (both ticket scans at the gates, and passport checks).

As some of us assumed, there is and can be nothing retrospective about the API requests.

I realise of course that any future ticket purchases will require filling in that extra info before the tickets will be issued. But since the ticket check and the passport checks are separate, and at no stage do you ever have to show both together, I'm not sure what extra assurance this system brings. Or is it the case that the passport booths will check your passport against not only their lists of wanted people (etc etc), but will also check them against the list they'll have of the APIs of that day's travellers? I'm a bit unclear how this will work. Surely you could still buy a ticket in someone else's name (albeit needing to give relevant passport details to match that name), but use a passport in another name when you travel?

And what if you have two valid passports, and quote one for the API and use the other to travel? Would the system pick up on that? So much of the system of checks seems to be based on theatre and deterrence rather than guaranteed security.

Having said all that, on my return to London the other night, on the last train from Brussels, as everyone was being sent down the travellator near the front of the train to access the arrivals area, an official announced to people reaching the lower level that they'd need to get their passports out for inspection, since there was an arrivals check. I've never had that happen to me since the early days of Eurostar. Looking along the queues moving slowly towards a handful of what seemed to be manual and rather basic passport booths set up at the far end of that area, I noticed that the check was simply a quick glance at the passport, and at the passenger, and nothing more. But by the time I was halfway along, the people staffing the booths stepped down and told everyone the checks were over, and the queues speeded up. I assumed that if they were looking for someone specific, then they'd found them. Interestingly, the train had slowed right down a couple of times between the tunnel and London, and came to a complete stop around Ashford for a brief period; maybe that was to allow time for the reception to be set up and staffed at St P? This was a service ex-Amsterdam, via Rotterdam and Lille as well as Brussels, so perhaps carrying intra-Schengen passengers leading to suspicious that there was an intra-Schengen passenger who hadn't left the train?

On a trip around 2018-19 my train back from Brussels was put in the loop at Stratford, reason given that the train in front was having passport checks carried out at St Pancras. We ended up arriving at St Pancras 15 min late as a result.

 

[KnobbyGB]

Long before Brexit, the UK government has always stood out amongst non-Schengen nations in not conducting exit passport checks at airports and ferry terminals. It was a cost cutting measure dependent on the airlines providing accurate information and checking travel documents. Had the UK really wanted to “take back control” of its borders it could have started years ago by employing the Border Force to conduct proper exit checks. /politics

I noticed this recently when travelling by air. I travel Athens-UK and back several times a year. Until now there has been API collected for the inbound journey but nothing going the other way (presumably due to the lack of formal exit-checks). However on my recent EDI-ATH flight in February, API was required during online-check-in. So, it seems to be a more general move to proper exit checks.

 

[zero]

I noticed this recently when travelling by air. I travel Athens-UK and back several times a year. Until now there has been API collected for the inbound journey but nothing going the other way (presumably due to the lack of formal exit-checks). However on my recent EDI-ATH flight in February, API was required during online-check-in. So, it seems to be a more general move to proper exit checks.

The UK collects API on all flights, in both directions, between the UK and outside the CTA, and has done so for at least a decade. What makes you think that it wasn't collected?

API may not always be verified against a physical document, that doesn't mean it isn't collected. For example when I've flown to and from Greece on BA and Aegean, as I never have checked bags, I use a mobile BP and put my passport details into the API during online check in.

No human verifies those details at the airport (they only check that my passport name and ticket name match on boarding). I can use a different passport from the one I put into the API, and have done so - but ETIAS will put a stop to that unless both passports have an ETIAS.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm fairly sure easyJet prints the passport number on the boarding card and there is (at least nominally) a gate check that they match. I'm almost certain I saw someone stopped over that once.

Some staff may be lax, though.

 

[Wolfie]

If that's how it will go, why bother with the online API? It's just an extra step with the situation at St Pancras being the same

To permit the Home Office to be better able to prevent certain people travelling in future Syria/Afghanistan etc scenarios at a guess.

 

[Brooke]

Just one additional note: I have the iProov.me set up and so far I have not been asked for API.

Whereas my wife does not have iProov.me and has been asked for API.

So it seems common sense applies and having iProov.me does not require to provide API again.

Although I wonder if iProov.me might be withdrawn in future as the new processes come in.

Update on my own post: I am also now being asked for API even while having iProov.me live.

Does anyone know if & how you can save the API info to avoid retyping it every time you travel?

 

[AdamWW]

This was a service ex-Amsterdam, via Rotterdam and Lille as well as Brussels, so perhaps carrying intra-Schengen passengers leading to suspicious that there was an intra-Schengen passenger who hadn't left the train?

It would only have been carrying passengers to the UK.

 

[AlbertBeale]

It would only have been carrying passengers to the UK.

I'm sure I saw passengers getting off the train after it arrived - as usual people departing from Brussels for London were let up to the through platform a little while before the train arrived, and people appeared from somewhere a few coaches further up (who looked like arrivals) just after the doors were unlocked.

 

[rvdborgt]

I'm sure I saw passengers getting off the train after it arrived - as usual people departing from Brussels for London were let up to the through platform a little while before the train arrived, and people appeared from somewhere a few coaches further up (who looked like arrivals) just after the doors were unlocked.

They haven't sold tickets Netherlands-Belgium on those trains for more than a year (or was it 2 years) now. But I could imagine that they sometimes put stranded Thalys^WEurostar Red passengers on them.

 

[AlbertBeale]

They haven't sold tickets Netherlands-Belgium on those trains for more than a year (or was it 2 years) now. But I could imagine that they sometimes put stranded Thalys^WEurostar Red passengers on them.

Ah - thanks - maybe that was it. (Or maybe I was mistaken in the dark...)