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Transdev Blazefield

HarryL

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14 Sep 2020
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Leeds
Maybe a bit of a conspiracy, but is it possible they chose a cheaper app not just because of finances, but also that the current WY Mayor is suggesting switching to franchising buses if re-elected? If that's carried out then presumably as happened with the Manchester Bee Network, a centralised app for West Yorkshire would be brought in and Transdev would be stuck with this expensive app contract for a much smaller area.

Not that it necessarily excuses poor quality, but if it's more of a stop gap in this sense, then it makes a bit more sense.
 
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RailUK Forums

YorkRailFan

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I noticed that an update for the new Transdev App became available yesterday evening. So far I haven't found any noticeable differences after the update.
These were the changes listed on the update:
Zoom in to see stops label
Bus service hides the stop list by default
Prevent map rotation
Smaller Vehicles
Remove erroneous "due" from cancelled services
 
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Ashly_Jethro

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Lancashire
I noticed that an update for the new Transdev App became available yesterday evening. So far I haven't found any noticeable differences after the update.
These were the changes listed on the update:
The bus icons are smaller as described and like the old app, cancelled services are now reflected in the live departures which is an excellent step in the right direction. However the zoom in to see stops doesn’t seem to work. When you open the map, it does show it before the map fully loads and then defaults back to press to see nearby stops like before.

All in all, until they at least remove the photo requirement for tickets, I won’t be using the new app. The old one still works for departures etc to use with paper tickets instead
 

SCH117X

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Theres a new issue with the both apps this week as the Harrogate Electrics at the Norwich Drive stop on the A59 with them both showing both the 3 and 4 going to the Bus Station whereras the latter definately is not to be used for such. The Passenger app does behave showing the outbond destination until the start of the outer loop on the services it was programmed for (not the 4) while the new App just say Bus Station anywhere on the routes.
 

Swimbar

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Wetherby
Given that Harrogate have lost some tendered work and presumably now have more drivers and vehicles available for the remaining services 34 journeys listed as cancelled today doesn't bode well for the future.
 

Andyh82

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Given that Harrogate have lost some tendered work and presumably now have more drivers and vehicles available for the remaining services 34 journeys listed as cancelled today doesn't bode well for the future.
They lost service 8, which required one bus

They’ve also introduced service 4 at the same time
 

SCH117X

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The 4 is being interworked with the 6 outside peak periods and that now means their is a requirement for all seven active Volvo Electrics to be in in use weekday peaks. 805 which has not worked since last May (tracking since on Bustimes is of incorrectly set ticket machines) is reported by the West Yorkshire Information Service fleetlist, acccessible at www.wyis.org.uk, to be with Volvo in Poland. 808 should have worked the 0755 and 0835 3 today but was taken back to the Starbeck depot re-entering service on the 0910 2.
The 1255 7 from Leeds going by bustimes operated from Bramham.
 

Andyh82

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Has anyone seen any printed timetables for the April changes?

There was a distinct lack of any in Harrogate or Leeds

There is also no paper mention of service 4 in Harrogate or that service 8 isn’t run by them anymore
 

SCH117X

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The 4 is not mentioned in the timetable case at the Norwich Drive stop, didn't look to see if the 3 timetable was the new one but the 59 times were clearly dispalyed without anything to say it was suspended. The only other stops on the A59 Skipton Road are an opposing pair of school bus (+59) stops identified by a solitary old small Harrogate & District sign on the outbound with a various faded to illegible header of Both Sides of The Road and no timetable cases. Given its proximity to B&Q and Aldi some new signage and signs would identify the presence of the service. I've only seen two workings so far - the 0847 from the Penny Pot turning circle on Thursday turning east onto the A59 and the 1325 outbound working today heading west on the A59 and neither had any passengers.

Posting on the Transdev Enthusiasts Facebook group by Paul Turner today announcing six of the ten '12' reg Mercedes engined Versas are going off lease and the '36' Gemini 3s are to go to Keighley
Following the service changes at York 207 208 209 213 214 and 216 are being withdrawn at the end of their lease. Two may see use this month for the Harrogate flower show.

When the new Enviro 400EVs enter service at Harrogate in the summer all 16 B5s will move to Keighley for Aireline and Dalesway. 2402/3, 2756-9 and 2791-6 will replace B7s in the school fleet while 2776 to 2778 will move to either Blackburn or Burnley to replace B7s there. At the same time 2017 will go for repaint for Burnley.

We are expecting a demo E400EV next week which will see use on the 36.
 
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Ashly_Jethro

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Posting on the Transdev Enthusiasts Facebook group by Paul Turner today announcing six of the ten '12' reg Mercedes engined Versas are going off lease and the '36' Gemini 3s are to go to Keighley

Perhaps one of the most logical fleet movements in a while with some wise choices made there.

I was slightly expecting the smaller e200s to get taken off lease under the assumption that it’s save more money but I think withdrawing the Versas was the right thing to do with the age they are at.

B5s going to Keighley came at no surprise to me. Not sure why some people were so hell bent on the idea of them being used for hotline, aside from the 2-1 seating, glazed roof and book shelf, there’s no real difference worth the cost of displacing the B9s which are doing just fine as they are.

One that I was slightly surprised by is the DalesWay B9s coming back to lancs but I suppose from a maintenance perspective, it doesn’t make sense to only have 3 B9s left at Keighley so I suppose re-uniting them with some of the others makes sense.
 

Delenn

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4 Aug 2019
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Perhaps one of the most logical fleet movements in a while with some wise choices made there.

I was slightly expecting the smaller e200s to get taken off lease under the assumption that it’s save more money but I think withdrawing the Versas was the right thing to do with the age they are at.

B5s going to Keighley came at no surprise to me. Not sure why some people were so hell bent on the idea of them being used for hotline, aside from the 2-1 seating, glazed roof and book shelf, there’s no real difference worth the cost of displacing the B9s which are doing just fine as they are.

One that I was slightly surprised by is the DalesWay B9s coming back to lancs but I suppose from a maintenance perspective, it doesn’t make sense to only have 3 B9s left at Keighley so I suppose re-uniting them with some of the others makes sense.
Personally, I was hoping for 4 or 5 to come to Coastliner, as the B9s aren't going to last forever with such intensive use. Apart from that, it does make sense.
 

158756

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Perhaps one of the most logical fleet movements in a while with some wise choices made there.

I was slightly expecting the smaller e200s to get taken off lease under the assumption that it’s save more money but I think withdrawing the Versas was the right thing to do with the age they are at.

B5s going to Keighley came at no surprise to me. Not sure why some people were so hell bent on the idea of them being used for hotline, aside from the 2-1 seating, glazed roof and book shelf, there’s no real difference worth the cost of displacing the B9s which are doing just fine as they are.

One that I was slightly surprised by is the DalesWay B9s coming back to lancs but I suppose from a maintenance perspective, it doesn’t make sense to only have 3 B9s left at Keighley so I suppose re-uniting them with some of the others makes sense.

Makes a lot of sense to me. Aireline is the obvious place for the B5s. Presumably it makes sense to replace the Dalesway buses to have a common fleet with Aireline, and then those buses will displace some of the B7s still in regular service in Lancashire, which will probably be the oldest deckers in the group still in regular use after the Keighley examples move to schools work.

On the other hand though... We know Keighley's days as a commercial operation are numbered. At what point does it stop making sense to be investing there?
 

Mollman

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Makes a lot of sense to me. Aireline is the obvious place for the B5s. Presumably it makes sense to replace the Dalesway buses to have a common fleet with Aireline, and then those buses will displace some of the B7s still in regular service in Lancashire, which will probably be the oldest deckers in the group still in regular use after the Keighley examples move to schools work.

On the other hand though... We know Keighley's days as a commercial operation are numbered. At what point does it stop making sense to be investing there?
Remember if it is like Greater Manchester, operators will be able to sell vehicles to WYCA so it makes sense to keep investing.
 

Ashly_Jethro

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Lancashire
Personally, I was hoping for 4 or 5 to come to Coastliner, as the B9s aren't going to last forever with such intensive use. Apart from that, it does make sense.
The B9s will outlast Maltons B5s, I guarantee it. It wouldn’t surprise me if Harrogate’s B9s go to Coastliner when the time comes. They are far more capable of running the route than the B5s which have been failing since day 1. I think one of them even had an engine failure on the way to be delivered to malton when new!
 
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The B9s will outlast Maltons B5s, I guarantee it. It wouldn’t surprise me if Harrogate’s B9s go to Coastliner when the time comes. They are far more capable of running the route than the B5s which have been failing since day 1. I think one of them even had an engine failure on the way to be delivered to malton when new!
Correct, engine blew up on the M62 over Marsden Moor. I know the driver who was delivering it from Burnley paintshop to Malton!
 

SCH117X

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Makes a lot of sense to me. Aireline is the obvious place for the B5s. Presumably it makes sense to replace the Dalesway buses to have a common fleet with Aireline, and then those buses will displace some of the B7s still in regular service in Lancashire, which will probably be the oldest deckers in the group still in regular use after the Keighley examples move to schools work.

On the other hand though... We know Keighley's days as a commercial operation are numbered. At what point does it stop making sense to be investing there?
Presumably, if they are leased, the lease terms make sense to keep them a while longer.
 

317 forever

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Makes a lot of sense to me. Aireline is the obvious place for the B5s. Presumably it makes sense to replace the Dalesway buses to have a common fleet with Aireline, and then those buses will displace some of the B7s still in regular service in Lancashire, which will probably be the oldest deckers in the group still in regular use after the Keighley examples move to schools work.

On the other hand though... We know Keighley's days as a commercial operation are numbered. At what point does it stop making sense to be investing there?
Although Transdev are believed not to have bid for Manchester operations, and Rochdale depot was small, I think they will want to bid to keep existing West Yorkshire operations, and may be bid for others too.
 

M803UYA

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The B9s will outlast Maltons B5s, I guarantee it. It wouldn’t surprise me if Harrogate’s B9s go to Coastliner when the time comes. They are far more capable of running the route than the B5s which have been failing since day 1. I think one of them even had an engine failure on the way to be delivered to malton when new!
smaller engine on the B5TL which is mated a large turbo. Coastliner really does need new buses every 5/6 years given the high annual mileages being run up by the vehicles.

Like the 36 it's a decent performing route which does justify the new investment. Sending 'old stuff' doesn't cut it and won't fix the reliability problem.
 

Ashly_Jethro

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smaller engine on the B5TL which is mated a large turbo. Coastliner really does need new buses every 5/6 years given the high annual mileages being run up by the vehicles.

Like the 36 it's a decent performing route which does justify the new investment. Sending 'old stuff' doesn't cut it and won't fix the reliability problem.
You say that but Coastliner was single biggest loss maker in the entire company. As much as they do need new vehicles, I’m not sure Coastliner can afford it at the moment
 

YorkRailFan

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You say that but Coastliner was single biggest loss maker in the entire company. As much as they do need new vehicles, I’m not sure Coastliner can afford it at the moment
Despite Coastliner being a valid competitor to TPE (Trans-Pennine Express) between York and Scarborough; many are still choosing TPE despite it being cheaper than Coastliner. Reliability on Coastliner isn't great.
 
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RustySpoons

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You say that but Coastliner was single biggest loss maker in the entire company. As much as they do need new vehicles, I’m not sure Coastliner can afford it at the moment
How times change. At one point it was Blazefield's biggest earner meaning it had the quickest turnover of new vehicles.
 

Andyh82

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Two things going on here

One person saying Coastliner need newer buses because new equals good, old equals bad

Another person saying that actually the older buses perform better than the newer buses

How times change. At one point it was Blazefield's biggest earner meaning it had the quickest turnover of new vehicles.
Remember Yorkshire Coastliner Limited and “the Coastliner service” are two different things

The YCL company also operates York locals, City Sightseeing, Flyer, until recently the NYCC (North Yorkshire County Council) tenders and depending on the accounts you were looking at, the Leeds to York CityZap service
 
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M803UYA

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One person saying Coastliner need newer buses because new equals good, old equals bad
The route operated is still the same one as has run for many years. Therefore the operating conditions haven't altered, perhaps gotten worse over time. There is a mix of fast interurban running and stop-start running out of Leeds and into York. The vehicle workings would be long and intensive, over 12-15 hours as will be the turnover of passengers.

All in all, that wears out a vehicle sooner than it would if it were used on a stop-start route. As the current buses have smaller engines and have to work harder just to keep going (traditional engineering logic of a large engine plodding around has been replaced by a smaller one working at maximum capacity) that means they'll wear out quicker and they will fail more frequently even if properly maintained.

So the company does need to replace these vehicles some time soon as they'll have been working the route for at least 7 years come the end of 2024. Logically you'd send them elsewhere in the business onto less intensive work - though returning off lease seems to be the favoured option at Blazefield leaving a nice rump of buses that simply get older as time progresses. If the company doesn't replace the buses, then presumably it accepts the route will decline in patronage and reliability terms as people make alternative choices because buses can't be relied upon to turn up when the timetable says they will?

Once upon a time, Blazefield used to run a mix of double decks and coaches on the Coastliner route. The doubles were targeted onto heavily loaded workings whilst the coaches handled the spin offs which didn't go to Scarborough. Concessionary fares have played their part in the company needing to double deck everything which ramps up the cost of operating.
 

Leedsbusman

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How times change. At one point it was Blazefield's biggest earner meaning it had the quickest turnover of new vehicles.
As others have said the company today is much different than the 90s/00s when it was really just Malton (and before the free concession scheme).
Typically buses have lasted 7-9 years - the B5s of early 2017 replaced 8yo B9s which replaced the last Olympians (built 2000).
2018 B5s replaced 7 yo B9/ which replaced 7yo B7s.
Late 2012 B9 replaced B7s from Mar 2004.

The earliest B5s are due to be replaced in 2025 by this logic. Will be interesting to see what could theoretically replace them.
 

M803UYA

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Under my stone....
As others have said the company today is much different than the 90s/00s when it was really just Malton (and before the free concession scheme).
Typically buses have lasted 7-9 years - the B5s of early 2017 replaced 8yo B9s which replaced the last Olympians (built 2000).
2018 B5s replaced 7 yo B9/ which replaced 7yo B7s.
Late 2012 B9 replaced B7s from Mar 2004.

The earliest B5s are due to be replaced in 2025 by this logic. Will be interesting to see what could theoretically replace them.
I can't believe that the company doesn't have a plan to replace the buses currently operating the service with new ones. It'd go against all historic trends.
 

RustySpoons

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As others have said the company today is much different than the 90s/00s when it was really just Malton (and before the free concession scheme).
Typically buses have lasted 7-9 years - the B5s of early 2017 replaced 8yo B9s which replaced the last Olympians (built 2000).
2018 B5s replaced 7 yo B9/ which replaced 7yo B7s.
Late 2012 B9 replaced B7s from Mar 2004.

The earliest B5s are due to be replaced in 2025 by this logic. Will be interesting to see what could theoretically replace them.

I can't believe that the company doesn't have a plan to replace the buses currently operating the service with new ones. It'd go against all historic trends.

It'll be interesting to see what happens in the future. With no new vehicles currently on order for any fleet, aside from the incoming electrics, and no plans for any new investment it'll be interesting to see where and when the next new order will be.
 

Gaz67

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Just a quick query, l often walk past Rawtenstall bus station and take note of anything unusual to get a quick pic, recently noticed a couple of the Burnley Bus minibuses (forgive my ignorance) , is this a common occurrence. Also what has happened to the blue/yellow Irwell line buses which have been replaced by a mix of Burnley, Blackburn and the dark grey ones with Irwell line stickers on the front. Colour schemes is as far as my knowledge goes but I am interested in the above, thanks.
 

Leedsbusman

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It'll be interesting to see what happens in the future. With no new vehicles currently on order for any fleet, aside from the incoming electrics, and no plans for any new investment it'll be interesting to see where and when the next new order will be.
The incoming electrics do amount to 54 buses - which is more than 10% of the fleet being renewed over the next few months. Out of interest where as it been said there are no plans for any new investment?
 

Ashly_Jethro

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Just a quick query, l often walk past Rawtenstall bus station and take note of anything unusual to get a quick pic, recently noticed a couple of the Burnley Bus minibuses (forgive my ignorance) , is this a common occurrence. Also what has happened to the blue/yellow Irwell line buses which have been replaced by a mix of Burnley, Blackburn and the dark grey ones with Irwell line stickers on the front. Colour schemes is as far as my knowledge goes but I am interested in the above, thanks.
The minibuses are replacing the Yellow Rossendale Rovers buses, some already have new Branding applied with the others getting done too. Irwell Line is run out of Burnley now which is why some of the buses have a Burnley vehicle on. The grey ones have replaced the old yellow and teal ones. And lastly, any recent Blackburn blue ones will probably be covering the 464 as that’s run out of Blackburns depot.

Hope this answers your questions

The incoming electrics do amount to 54 buses - which is more than 10% of the fleet being renewed over the next few months. Out of interest where as it been said there are no plans for any new investment?
When the 2022 accounts were filed, Transdev Paris implemented a no new orders mandate for 2024, but because the electrics had already been ordered at that point, they went ahead as planned
 

158756

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It'll be interesting to see what happens in the future. With no new vehicles currently on order for any fleet, aside from the incoming electrics, and no plans for any new investment it'll be interesting to see where and when the next new order will be.

Given the financial situation a gap in orders wouldn't be a surprise. But also, are there that many vehicles in urgent need of replacement beyond those already directly or indirectly accounted for by the electric orders? A lot of older buses in the fleet have been seen off by service cuts in recent years, and a few more will be replaced by buses retained from Rochdale.

A wider issue in the industry is electrification - as noted, Transdev have no diesel buses on order. If you buy a diesel bus now how much use will there be for it 10 or 15 years down the line? But electric buses do not seem to be there yet without government support. If we're talking about Coastliner, that will be one of the more difficult routes for EVs, so it might not be suitable yet but is it worth buying another set of diesels?
 

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