National Rail App

[modernrail]

The latest version of the National Rail App is infuriating. There are loads of circumstances where you are now locked out from looking at journey details. It is any situation where the app decides it can’t offer you a ticket for that service.

What on earth is going on. This is primarily an information app not a ticket portal. How am I meant to check where I am meant to change, the timings of change etc if I happen to be on a service that has fake ‘sold out’. Are you not entitled to that information any more. Are you just meant to miss your change and end up somewhere else?

Now I have found another version of the problem. Where no through ticket is available. The attached is the journey from Sheffield to East Midlands Airport. I can’t click in to the journey to check the nature, location and timing of the change.

Who on earth signed off on this design. It simply does not work. It is absolutely ridiculous for a supposedly serious organisation whose whole purpose is to provide information about National rail journeys.

 

[Hadlow Road]

Bahn.de works very well and is very flexible with very full information - and there is a button for English.

 

[Thisisajm]

Railboard is good as OP has iPhone.

 

[Llandudno]

Railboard is good as OP has iPhone.

Yep, I use Railboard.

Much clearer and easier to use!

 

[bakerstreet]

I agree with others on here - Railboard is fantastic and also sells tickets from Trainsplit if you actually then wish to purchase.

 

[30907]

Bahn.de works very well and is very flexible with very full information - and there is a button for English.

Bear in mind that it isn't updated for engineering works, let alone disruption.

 

[Hadlow Road]

Hmm, the Train Managers on Avanti aren’t either, if my journey EUS>CTR last Thursday (30 May) is any guide. At least not by Avanti, but by passengers at CRE.

Words fail me.

 

[yorkie]

The latest version of the National Rail App is infuriating. There are loads of circumstances where you are now locked out from looking at journey details. It is any situation where the app decides it can’t offer you a ticket for that service.

What on earth is going on. This is primarily an information app not a ticket portal. How am I meant to check where I am meant to change, the timings of change etc if I happen to be on a service that has fake ‘sold out’. Are you not entitled to that information any more. Are you just meant to miss your change and end up somewhere else?

Now I have found another version of the problem. Where no through ticket is available. The attached is the journey from Sheffield to East Midlands Airport. I can’t click in to the journey to check the nature, location and timing of the change.

Who on earth signed off on this design. It simply does not work. It is absolutely ridiculous for a supposedly serious organisation whose whole purpose is to provide information about National rail journeys.

Are you wanting fares information, our purely times?

If it's just times you want, www.fastjp.com may be worth considering; it has various advanced options which you might find useful, e.g. you can specify travel just on selected TOCs, or exclude TOCs etc.

 

[Aaron1]

Whilst it is all well and good that there are alternative apps and websites to use, and I appreciate the posters offering different options are trying to be helpful.

That doesn't change the fact that the offical app for the organisation who are responsible for the railways, they are a professional body (or should be) so they should have a professional app which is fit for purpose

 

[Somewhere]

And if a train is cancelled, it only shows the time from the station you're looking at, not other stations it calls at.

 

[HandyHat]

The OP says app here but is on the website - at least on Android, the National Rail Enquiries app is delightfully antiquated and very much functional, even if it looks like the UI hasn't been updated since it launched in 2012!

 

[Bantamzen]

Whilst it is all well and good that there are alternative apps and websites to use, and I appreciate the posters offering different options are trying to be helpful.

That doesn't change the fact that the offical app for the organisation who are responsible for the railways, they are a professional body (or should be) so they should have a professional app which is fit for purpose

And for most passengers it works ok, not great but functional enough. Yes it lacks the advanced options that some other sites allow, but its why NR make their data feeds available to third party devs so that they can build apps aimed more for those wanting more than just how to get from A to B and how much that will cost.

 

[kacper]

Railboard is good, TfL encourages Elizabeth Line workers to use it to help customers

 

[Royston Vasey]

The OP says app here but is on the website - at least on Android, the National Rail Enquiries app is delightfully antiquated and very much functional, even if it looks like the UI hasn't been updated since it launched in 2012!

I use the National Rail Enquiries app almost every day, I love it! It's clean, simple and intuitive. Everything the National Rail website isn't!

 

[yorksrob]

The app on android is very good generally. The only problem with it is that if a leg of a journey is cancelled, it will show the whole thing as cancelled, rather than finding an alternative leg.

That said, it will be interesting if it does get replaced by a downgraded version similar to the passenger unfriendly new website. Synonymous with an industry that doesn't want passengers to be able to navigate the system freely and a Government which doesn't have passengers interests at heart perhaps.

 

[175001]

I use the National Rail Enquiries app almost every day, I love it! It's clean, simple and intuitive. Everything the National Rail website isn't!

Same here. Best app going for planning and routing via stations
No other app comes close.

 

[modernrail]

And for most passengers it works ok, not great but functional enough. Yes it lacks the advanced options that some other sites allow, but its why NR make their data feeds available to third party devs so that they can build apps aimed more for those wanting more than just how to get from A to B and how much that will cost.

Thanks for the suggestions of alternatives.

However my problem with the National Rail App is that a really, really important piece of functionality appears to have been taken away - for no clear reason.

The OP says app here but is on the website - at least on Android, the National Rail Enquiries app is delightfully antiquated and very much functional, even if it looks like the UI hasn't been updated since it launched in 2012!

Oh my. This is correct. I did mean website. I have just downloaded the app. I am glad you like it but I am still convinced I must have downloaded a knock off version. Is that (attached) real???? I don’t know where to start. It is dreadful. A dystopian nightmare of the UK today. Would you like a really awful app to tell you that your only fare from London to Newcastle tomorrow is £330. My word.

I can see why I have defaulted back to the website.

And the problem on the website remains. You can no longer check the timings of the stops and changes on a route where it is showing that no tickets are available. You also can’t get timings for a train that has already departed. Why?????? I definitely need to be able to check these things. I and the rest of the train are on the train. You are locking out this information for us as well you absolute idiots. These things are completely essential if you are travelling on a bloody train. Trainline shows it. The National Rail app used to. It is all seriously depressing stuff. Get a bloody grip National Rail.

 

[Bantamzen]

Thanks for the suggestions of alternatives.

However my problem with the National Rail App is that a really, really important piece of functionality appears to have been taken away - for no clear reason.



Oh my. This is correct. I did mean website. I have just downloaded the app. I am glad you like it but I am still convinced I must have downloaded a knock off version. Is that (attached) real???? I don’t know where to start. It is dreadful. A dystopian nightmare of the UK today. Would you like a really awful app to tell you that your only fare from London to Newcastle tomorrow is £330. My word.

I can see why I have defaulted back to the website.

And the problem on the website remains. You can no longer check the timings of the stops and changes on a route where it is showing that no tickets are available. You also can’t get timings for a train that has already departed. Why?????? I definitely need to be able to check these things. I and the rest of the train are on the train. You are locking out this information for us as well you absolute idiots. These things are completely essential if you are travelling on a bloody train. Trainline shows it. The National Rail app used to. It is all seriously depressing stuff. Get a bloody grip National Rail.

The thing is most people do use the site to see what prices are available for their journey, and once bought they don't use it to check the progress of it. Which is maybe why it doesn't have the functionality you wish, perhaps it was even removed because it caused confusion for people buying tickets through it? This is why other alternatives are available and have been suggested to you.

You could of course feedback this wish to National Rail, saying what it is you would like to see and why it would be useful. Perhaps they might even look into a change, it will all depend on if its going to be something they consider worthwhile adding back in.

 

[modernrail]

The thing is most people do use the site to see what prices are available for their journey, and once bought they don't use it to check the progress of it. Which is maybe why it doesn't have the functionality you wish, perhaps it was even removed because it caused confusion for people buying tickets through it? This is why other alternatives are available and have been suggested to you.

You could of course feedback this wish to National Rail, saying what it is you would like to see and why it would be useful. Perhaps they might even look into a change, it will all depend on if it’s going to be something they consider worthwhile adding back in.

It is not a ticket purchasing portal. It is primarily an information and planning portal. Who has decided it should become primarily a ticket portal? If that decision has been made, why is there not a note on the site directing you to the National Rail information app, or the suggestions in this thread. Even more to the point, why does it not sell tickets. It is absolute nonsense.

The information is locked out even though it is still required by those who have already bought tickets for that journey.

I can see no reason whatsoever why the site cannot both give the information it used to on the timings of stops and the stations at which changes need to be made, whilst also including a note (lie) that no tickets are available for that journey.

What sort of confusion would that cause?

Whilst I note the suggestions in this thread, they are all 3rd party providers. I don’t want a 3rd party provider. I want an answer from the official database that my taxpayer pounds go to subsidise. This should be one of the most basic things a publicly funded railway is able to provide. The bloody timetable.

 

[RGM654]

Railboard may be wonderful if you're happy to do your planning on a tiny little phone screen, but what's best on a PC screen? Trainsplit (and therefore I presume also tickets.railforums.co.uk) is fine if you're specifically looking for cheapest or fastest, but what if you want to see all the moderately sensible options, including alternative routes?

 

[Bantamzen]

It is not a ticket purchasing portal. It is primarily an information and planning portal. Who has decided it should become primarily a ticket portal? If that decision has been made, why is there not a note on the site directing you to the National Rail information app, or the suggestions in this thread. Even more to the point, why does it not sell tickets. It is absolute nonsense.

The information is locked out even though it is still required by those who have already bought tickets for that journey.

I can see no reason whatsoever why the site cannot both give the information it used to on the timings of stops and the stations at which changes need to be made, whilst also including a note (lie) that no tickets are available for that journey.

What sort of confusion would that cause?

Whilst I note the suggestions in this thread, they are all 3rd party providers. I don’t want a 3rd party provider. I want an answer from the official database that my taxpayer pounds go to subsidise. This should be one of the most basic things a publicly funded railway is able to provide. The bloody timetable.

Then I'm sorry anyone offered you alternatives, they were just trying to be helpful. You will need to take this up with National Rail, it's their portal which most people do use to check prices of tickets despite what you may think.

 

[modernrail]

Then I'm sorry anyone offered you alternatives, they were just trying to be helpful. You will need to take this up with National Rail, it's their portal which most people do use to check prices of tickets despite what you may think.

The alternatives are very much appreciated, as I have already said.

However, I think you are wrong on your description of what National Rail is meant to do. So does the site itself… which states:

‘The new National Rail Journey Planner provides detailed, up-to-the-minute information about train services, fares and more, and you can plan up to 12 weeks in the future.’

The change to remove the information behind journeys where a tickets have ‘sold out’, means its first stated function no longer functions. It no longer provides up-to-the minute information. That is its self-stated primary purpose.

I am interested to know if anybody on the forum knows of National Rail’s justification for removing its own stated primary function.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Railboard may be wonderful if you're happy to do your planning on a tiny little phone screen, but what's best on a PC screen? Trainsplit (and therefore I presume also tickets.railforums.co.uk) is fine if you're specifically looking for cheapest or fastest, but what if you want to see all the moderately sensible options, including alternative routes?

The Trainsplit beta version improves a lot on the choice of price and route options, then choice between flexible and fixed time for those trains, as it is able to present choices of outbound and return separately, and provides slower/cheaper itineraries readily.

There have been a number of occasions where I have been able to book my desired itinerary on the beta site which I couldn't cajole the original matrix-style interface to offer.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Jun 2024 ==

Oh my. This is correct. I did mean website. I have just downloaded the app. I am glad you like it but I am still convinced I must have downloaded a knock off version. Is that (attached) real???? I don’t know where to start. It is dreadful. A dystopian nightmare of the UK today. Would you like a really awful app to tell you that your only fare from London to Newcastle tomorrow is £330. My word.

I can see why I have defaulted back to the website.

If you're not trying to buy a ticket through that app, and thats not what it's for, it shows every service and if it's "sold out" it just doesn't offer a price. It's a live running and planning app and does a good job of it. The pricing is indicative and is there to help the user and will do so in 99% of cases where the train is not "sold out". Would you like more fancy colours and text and animations?

To travel to Newcastle today (an exceptional case apparently because of an event at Murrayfield) the 0900, 0930, 1000 and 1030 departures all show with no price suggested, as well as Lumo at 1025. An Anytime at £195.70 shows on the 1100 onwards. But you can see in the planner all of the trains running, as well as the Live Trains tab for all departures on the day.

Your issue is with LNER insisting on compulsory reservations and eliminating open tickets other than Anytime. Your issue is not with this app that can only report what it's allowed to. And this app reports more than the current mess of a NR website reports, because it dates from way before all this sold out silliness, and doesn't suppress sold out trains.

 

[modernrail]

The Trainsplit beta version improves a lot on the choice of price and route options, then choice between flexible and fixed time for those trains, as it is able to present choices of outbound and return separately, and provides slower/cheaper itineraries readily.

There have been a number of occasions where I have been able to book my desired itinerary on the beta site which I couldn't cajole the original matrix-style interface to offer.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Jun 2024 ==


If you're not trying to buy a ticket through that app, and thats not what it's for, it shows every service and if it's "sold out" it just doesn't offer a price. It's a live running and planning app and does a good job of it. The pricing is indicative and is there to help the user and will do so in 99% of cases where the train is not "sold out". Would you like more fancy colours and text and animations?

To travel to Newcastle today (an exceptional case apparently because of an event at Murrayfield) the 0900, 0930, 1000 and 1030 departures all show with no price suggested, as well as Lumo at 1025. An Anytime at £195.70 shows on the 1100 onwards. But you can see in the planner all of the trains running, as well as the Live Trains tab for all departures on the day.

Your issue is with LNER insisting on compulsory reservations and eliminating open tickets other than Anytime. Your issue is not with this app that can only report what it's allowed to. And this app reports more than the current mess of a NR website reports, because it dates from way before all this sold out silliness, and doesn't suppress sold out trains.

No, it turns out my problem is with the website and the app behaving differently for no good reason, I think. Although it is all so confusing. God help any anybody who hasn’t been catching lots of trains for years.

So I just checked a journey on the app and on the website. London to Hexham. You get two different results. On the app, it tells you where to change and the time of that change. On the website, it does not let you click into that detail.

Attached screenshots show result.

What is the logic for the website and the app behaving differently.

If they are going to do this then the r website should have a warning on it that you need to download the app if you want full journey detail and running information. However, it doesn’t. It gives no indication whatsoever that it does not provide the same information as the app.

Not everybody wants to clog up their phone with another app. Many will go to the website version, on their mobiles, to check these sorts of things. I can see no reason why the website should not be offering the functionality the app seems to be (with a dreadfully outdated interface).

The same problem occurs if you want to check on the website details for a journey where the first leg has already departed. You cannot click in to the details. So if I am on the train wanting to check the time and station of the change so I can prepare properly, I cannot. I have attached an example of London to Harwich for a journey I could be on at the moment wanting just that info.

Again, on the app it does give you the detail. There is an additional inconsistency in that the app tells you the price and the website does not.

These are conscious decisions that somebody has decided to make to actively reduce the usefulness of the National Rail website. I would love to know what the justification is because it seems crackers for the UK’s main train information portals to behaving in this way.

 

[Bantamzen]

No, it turns out my problem is with the website and the app behaving differently for no good reason, I think. Although it is all so confusing. God help any anybody who hasn’t been catching lots of trains for years.

So I just checked a journey on the app and on the website. London to Hexham. You get two different results. On the app, it tells you where to change and the time of that change. On the website, it does not let you click into that detail.

Attached screenshots show result.

What is the logic for the website and the app behaving differently.

If they are going to do this then the r website should have a warning on it that you need to download the app if you want full journey detail and running information. However, it doesn’t. It gives no indication whatsoever that it does not provide the same information as the app.

Not everybody wants to clog up their phone with another app. Many will go to the website version, on their mobiles, to check these sorts of things. I can see no reason why the website should not be offering the functionality the app seems to be (with a dreadfully outdated interface).

The same problem occurs if you want to check on the website details for a journey where the first leg has already departed. You cannot click in to the details. So if I am on the train wanting to check the time and station of the change so I can prepare properly, I cannot. I have attached an example of London to Harwich for a journey I could be on at the moment wanting just that info.

Again, on the app it does give you the detail. There is an additional inconsistency in that the app tells you the price and the website does not.

These are conscious decisions that somebody has decided to make to actively reduce the usefulness of the National Rail website. I would love to know what the justification is because it seems crackers for the UK’s main train information portals to behaving in this way.

So you've found that the app offers more functionality than the website, so why not just use that in future? Looking at the install on my Android device it weighs in at just 37.56Mb, and it has the added bonus that you can set it to alert you if there are issues with your journeys. I mean its hardly going to clutter anyone's device and seems to give you what you want from as far as I can tell.

But I'll just say that away from these forums, most travellers don't monitor their journeys, they buy their tickets, they get on the train and they sit and read the news or social media streams, or just watch some video content or stare out of the window. If a particular journey is shown as sold out, most punters will just look for one that isn't and not care too much about the fine details of the one they couldn't book. I imagine that may be the reason why National Rail have scaled back their ticket search engine is to give the majority of passengers what they need, that is how much & when for their planned journeys quickly and without unnecessary detail. And for those passengers that are interested in the finer details of their trip, there is the app and other recourses available to use.

 

[modernrail]

So you've found that the app offers more functionality than the website, so why not just use that in future? Looking at the install on my Android device it weighs in at just 37.56Mb, and it has the added bonus that you can set it to alert you if there are issues with your journeys. I mean its hardly going to clutter anyone's device and seems to give you what you want from as far as I can tell.

But I'll just say that away from these forums, most travellers don't monitor their journeys, they buy their tickets, they get on the train and they sit and read the news or social media streams, or just watch some video content or stare out of the window. If a particular journey is shown as sold out, most punters will just look for one that isn't and not care too much about the fine details of the one they couldn't book. I imagine that may be the reason why National Rail have scaled back their ticket search engine is to give the majority of passengers what they need, that is how much & when for their planned journeys quickly and without unnecessary detail. And for those passengers that are interested in the finer details of their trip, there is the app and other recourses available to use.

Sorry, I completely disagree with your response. It is entirely predicated on National Rail’s journey planner being a ticket search engine. That is not what it is. That is not what it states it is. It is the website version of the app. Except that it isn’t any more.

Most people I know that use trains absolutely do want and need this information. For instance if you are on a late running train and might miss your connection this functionality is critical. What happens every time I raise this point with them. Their reply is very simple. They say they don’t use the National Rail site or app because it is rubbish. They use Trainline.

So what National Rail has done is not give them what they need, by removing information. They have pushed more people to Trainline and other websites and apps because theirs is not fit for purpose, despite being the official source.

 

[Bantamzen]

Sorry, I completely disagree with your response. It is entirely predicated on National Rail’s journey planner being a ticket search engine. That is not what it is. That is not what it states it is. It is the website version of the app. Except that it isn’t any more.

Most people I know that use trains absolutely do want and need this information. For instance if you are on a late running train and might miss your connection this functionality is critical. What happens every time I raise this point with them. Their reply is very simple. They say they don’t use the National Rail site or app because it is rubbish. They use Trainline.

So what National Rail has done is not give them what they need, by removing information. They have pushed more people to Trainline and other websites and apps because theirs is not fit for purpose, despite being the official source.

Then I think we can only conclude that the National Rail engine isn't to everyone's liking, and that alternatives exist.

 

[modernrail]

Then I think we can only conclude that the National Rail engine isn't to everyone's liking, and that alternatives exist.

We can conclude that the UK’s official rail planning website doesn’t work properly because they have removed functionality that exists in what is meant to be the same thing in app form. So you are left in the bizarre situation of having to reply on the app or 3rd party providers who are not as incompetent as those who have designed the National Rail website (or the antiquated app interface).

Of course none of that is remotely obvious to an occasional user who justifiably thinks if they go on the UK’s official National Rail website they might be able to find journey information for the journey they are on.

 

[Royston Vasey]

We can conclude that the UK’s official rail planning website doesn’t work properly because they have removed functionality that exists in what is meant to be the same thing in app form. So you are left in the bizarre situation of having to reply on the app or 3rd party providers who are not as incompetent as those who have designed the National Rail website (or the antiquated app interface).

Of course none of that is remotely obvious to an occasional user who justifiably thinks if they go on the UK’s official National Rail website they might be able to find journey information for the journey they are on.

Live arrival and departure boards are available for all services at all stations on the official website and app. Trainline app has similar (which is what the average passenger is likely to refer to if they're on a train or heading to the station and almost always on a mobile device). Live departures are comprehensive and the passenger isn't really planning a journey by that point.

I completely agree the both the NRE website and LNER's compulsory reservations and ticketing policies all absolutely suck. But I'm hoping they never get round to updating the "antiquated", i.e. simple, uncomplicated and entirely functional NRE app!

 

[Hagbard Celine]

We can conclude that the UK’s official rail planning website doesn’t work properly because they have removed functionality that exists in what is meant to be the same thing in app form. So you are left in the bizarre situation of having to reply on the app or 3rd party providers who are not as incompetent as those who have designed the National Rail website (or the antiquated app interface).

Of course none of that is remotely obvious to an occasional user who justifiably thinks if they go on the UK’s official National Rail website they might be able to find journey information for the journey they are on.

I fully agree with your opinion of the latest version of National Rail's journey planner website.

We'd to go to Dundee on Saturday for a funeral at 14:30.
According to NR website journey planner there are no journeys from Tweedbank that arrive in Dundee between 12:37 and 14:20. The latter would be cutting it a bit fine. The former would mean getting the 10:20 from Tweedbank and having nearly two hours to kill in Dundee.

Realtimetrains shows there are actually trains from Edinburgh arriving in Dundee at 13:22 and 13:41 which National Rail don't appear to know about. It's a half hourly service from Tweedbank to Edinburgh.

Whilst I knew of the existence of other journey planners many people don't. If the only options really were arriving at 12:37 or 14:20 I would have taken the car.