How fast do you drive on the motorway?

[90019]

Automatics have been around for some time and most people in the US have them.

Ah yes, that haven of good driving...

In almost every other area people prefer assistance from technology so why do people still insist on changing gear? If people had automatics they wouldn't even need to think about what gear they should be in and could concentrate more on the road.

For someone who wants more efficient cars, I'm surprised you think this.
As an example, my dad has an automatic 523i, and I know someone with a manual one, my dad's is currently showing as getting 19.7mpg, and the manual one is about 24mpg.

I'm assuming you don't drive, as most people are still concentrating on the road whilst changing gear. Anyone who regularly has to take their eyes off the road to change gear shouldn't be driving.

 

[GB]

Changing gear in a manual becomes second nature and those that know how to drive will know what gear they are in without needing to look by the speed of the car, revs and sound of the engine.

 

[Zoe]

Actually these days automatics are quite efficient at selecting the right gear at the right time.

 

[GB]

But are they as effcient? I suspect not unless you are looking at the higher end motors.

 

[90019]

Changing gear in a manual becomes second nature and those that know how to drive will know what gear they are in without needing to look by the speed of the car, revs and sound of the engine.

My car has no rev counter

Actually these days automatics are quite efficient at selecting the right gear at the right time.

However, they're still less efficient than the equivalent manual.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Why should an ever closer union with an EU wide driving licence have different ages for different member states?

Whatever suits your obvious anti-motoring agenda Zoe! Not the first time that has surfaced. Do you drive? I did ask you that in another thread once but you ignored the question.

 

[Zoe]

However, they're still less efficient than the equivalent manual.

I'm not sure about that, many automatics these days are effectively manual gearboxes that change gear automatically for you rather than using torque converters.

 

[90019]

Do you drive? I did ask you that in another thread once but you ignored the question.

I've been wondering myself, however this quote makes me think not:

If people had automatics they wouldn't even need to think about what gear they should be in and could concentrate more on the road.

 

[Zoe]

Actually the above quote I have heard from quite a few Americans.

 

[GB]

As I say, you do not have to think about what gear your in anyway. I'd be very wary of quoting americans as an authoritive for good driving (no offense) considering their style and attitude towards it.

 

[Zoe]

As I say, you do not have to think about what gear your in anyway. I'd be very wary of quoting americans as an authoritive for good driving (no offense) considering their style and attitude towards it.

So when you are on a motorway, would you select sixth gear without considering if you need it or not? Some people do but others leave it in fifth gear.

 

[GB]

6th gear offers me better economy so yes, I am usually in 6th unless the speed of the flow drops or does not warrant it.

 

[90019]

As I say, you do not have to think about what gear your in anyway. I'd be very wary of quoting americans as an authoritive for good driving (no offense) considering their style and attitude towards it.

Also the fact that they get no training in driving a manual car.
I was talking to an American friend who commented that there is no real skill involved getting a driving licence in America. When she did her test, it lasted 15 minutes and was done in a closed off car park with some cones.

 

[Zoe]

When she did her test, it lasted 15 minutes and was done in a closed off car park with some cones.

Graduated licencing is often used in the US. That test would have just been part of it and she would most likely not have got a full unrestricted licence as a result of it.

 

[90019]

So when you are on a motorway, would you select sixth gear without considering if you need it or not? Some people do but others leave it in fifth gear.

I leave it in 5th.
Though I don't have a 6th.


I don't know of anyone who doesn't put it into the highest gear when cruising on a clear motorway.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Graduated licencing is often used in the US. That test would have just been part of it and she would most likely not have got a full unrestricted licence as a result of it.

She did get a full licence.

Have you ever experienced the driving in America?

 

[Zoe]

She did get a full licence.

Which state?

 

[90019]

Which state?

Not sure, I'll ask her next time she's around. I think she's away atm though.

 

[Zoe]

Other countries do at least have a compulsory training element whereas here you can just take your test and pass having had not professional training.

As for raising the age to 18, the other issue is why would a 17 year old near to drive at all? The school leaving age is shortly to be increased to 18 so they won't need cars to get to work and they can easily get to school or college by public transport. It should also be noted that the cost of insurance is so high for 17 year olds these days that even if they pass a test they won't be able to afford a car, many resort to the illegal practice of fronting.

 

[GB]

Other countries do at least have a compulsory training element whereas here you can just take your test and pass having had not professional training.

As for raising the age to 18, the other issue is why would a 17 year old near to drive at all? The school leaving age is shortly to be increased to 18 so they won't need cars to get to work and they can easily get to school or college by public transport.

There is nothing to say you can't do further education and have a paid job at the same time. Then there is the weekends.

It should also be noted that the cost of insurance is so high for 17 year olds these days that even if they pass a test they won't be able to afford a car, many resort to the illegal practice of fronting.

This all depends on circumstances. There will be many that will struggle to afford it but there will also be many that can afford it.

 

[sprinterguy]

As for raising the age to 18, the other issue is why would a 17 year old near to drive at all? The school leaving age is shortly to be increased to 18 so they won't need cars to get to work and they can easily get to school or college by public transport. It should also be noted that the cost of insurance is so high for 17 year olds these days that even if they pass a test they won't be able to afford a car, many resort to the illegal practice of fronting.

What about rural areas where public transport provision is poor and even where there are public transport services they couldn’t possibly get close to serving every pupil in education in the area due to the scattered population?

What about those in education who, as GB says, have part time or full time jobs?

And also, as GB says, what about weekends, or things like job interviews which are time critical and public transport cannot necessarily be relied upon?

 

[Zoe]

What about rural areas where public transport provision is poor and even where there are public transport services they couldn’t possibly get close to serving every pupil in education in the area due to the scattered population?

What about those in education who, as GB says, have part time or full time jobs?

Post 16 education is usually for two years. They would be two young to drive in their first year so other arrangements would have to be made and there is no reason why this shouldn't be the case for the second year.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Post 16 education is usually for two years. They would be two young to drive in their first year so other arrangements would have to be made and there is no reason why this shouldn't be the case for the second year.

What about where the arrangements for the first year are very inconvenient, but have to be done to get there, or where location/circumstances change during the 2 years?

 

[Zoe]

What about where the arrangements for the first year are very inconvenient, but have to be done to get there, or where location/circumstances change during the 2 years?

The same as if the location/circumstances changed after they had done their GCSEs. Many colleges do not allow students to park there in any case. Some 17 year olds just bring cars to their college as status symbols and don't really need them. In some cases they were given to them for their birthday, something which I strongly disagree with.

 

[GB]

Do you drive Zoe? Alot of your posts have alot of negativity towards cars and potential drivers.

Yes you are right that in the first year they will be too young to drive, but why should they HAVE to resort to other means in the second year just to meet some arbitrary EU directive?

 

[Zoe]

Yes you are right that in the first year they will be too young to drive, but why should they HAVE to resort to other means in the second year just to meet some arbitrary EU directive?

An EU directive is just one reason for increasing the age to 18. The fact is 17 year olds do not need cars to get to college as I said, usually there is no parking available for students in any case. I am not completely against road transport but I don't think this is an appropriate use for it.

 

[sprinterguy]

The same as if the location/circumstances changed after they had done their GCSEs. Many colleges do not allow students to park there in any case. Some 17 year olds just bring cars to their college as status symbols and don't really need them. In some cases they were given to them for their birthday, something which I strongly disagree with.

I agree that people being given cars as a birthday present, purely for the sake of having a car is daft and overall I’m in agreement that the legal driving age should be raised to eighteen. However your claim that no 17 year old has a need to drive is false, as real life simply isn’t that tidy.

A raise of the age for driving to 18 would in some cases make life more complicated for 17 year olds who under the current system can exercise choice in whether they want to go to the expense of owning and operating a car or continue with the more difficult arrangements they had to abide by below that age. For such people raising the driving age could rob them of many opportunities in life as they would be disadvantaged against others their age who just happen to live in more fortunate areas or in more fortunate circumstances.

 

[Spam Can]

34 points in 34 years (& counting)!!
Never mind the motorway, if I'm not doing 5-10mph over the limit I tend to go comatose!! AS "Jezza" says, its not speed that kills, its coming to a dead stop!!
Also hears one from a paramedic friend of mine..
"If you hit me a 40 I'll die..but if you hit me at 30 I'll survive. I'll be a vegatable, I'll cost the NHS millions & i will die in the end..so hit me at 45 & do it properly"!!
(sorry if that causes offence)

 

[GB]

My college had a car park for students (Had to pay for a permit). If mine did that then I am sure 100's more through out the country will be the same, if not I'm sure there will be a pay & display in the locale. What about the point that a large percentage of students will also have jobs to get to?

 

[sprinterguy]

The fact is 17 year olds do not need cars to get to college as I said, usually there is no parking available for students in any case.

In some cases they do; you're stating opinion as fact. My college had plenty of parking available to students (Although my college was one example where alternate transport options were a completely viable option), and I believe that a couple in my girlfriends' area around the High Peak also had ample parking facilities, where it was much more needed.

And as others' have also said, there's a lot more in a 17 year olds' life than just college.

 

[Zoe]

My college had a car park for students (Had to pay for a permit). If mine did that then I am sure 100's more through out the country will be the same, if not I'm sure there will be a pay & display in the locale. What about the point that a large percentage of students will also have jobs to get to?

They only have jobs through choice and personally I think rather than having a job to pay for things they don't need like cars, they should be concentrating on their studies.