Football

[Cowley]

agreed - that and a sensible haircut, decent blazer and some proper shoes. Also manly handshake on scoring a good goal. Rarely: a pat on back after a "worldie". Jig if world cup secured.

Perhaps a pipe too?

 

[DarloRich]

Perhaps a pipe too?

Dangerously avant-garde! Perhaps a few Woodbine. They are good for the chest.

 

[1D54]

Maybe England would play better if they wore proper black boots instead of pink carpet slippers

Maybe go back to the days when Stoke City had lads a plenty representing England

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Do some players still have the "pineapple" haircut these days?

 

[Donny Dave]

Maybe go back to the days when Stoke City had lads a plenty representing England

Can Stoke match Scunthorpe United's record of having 3 England captains playing for them?

 

[New York Giant]

Do some players still have the "pineapple" haircut these days?

Baddiel & Skinner wouldn't get away with that Jason Lee material in today's world.

 

[dangie]

Maybe go back to the days when Stoke City had lads a plenty representing England

Now you’re talking my game

****************
Half time. England 0 - 0 Slovenia
If I was impartial I’d switch it off.
Think I might go out and water the garden.

 

[Haywain]

This isn't so much the group of death, more the group of dearth (of excitement, goals etc).

 

[DarloRich]

well that was dull!

 

[dangie]

well that was dull!

That was 93 minutes of my life I’ll never get back.
Unless I drifted off, England’s first shot was at 91 minutes.

 

[DarloRich]

That was 93 minutes of my life I’ll never get back.
Unless I drifted off, England’s first shot was at 91 minutes.

It is England tournament football. Standard. Kept the ball well but just no zip in the passing or speed in the play

 

[Haywain]

well that was dull!

It wasn't that good!

 

[Cowley]

It is England tournament football. Standard. Kept the ball well but just no zip in the passing or speed in the play

I felt that it was an improvement on the last game. Still sluggish but there were a few things to be optimistic about maybe?

 

[AlterEgo]

Nobody from Group C should be allowed to qualify. An abomination of a group.

 

[Class15]

Nobody from Group C should be allowed to qualify. An abomination of a group.

Indeed. Serbia, who I was supporting, were lacking ideas. I didn’t see the England game but from what I heard they were really poor.

 

[dangie]

I felt that it was an improvement on the last game. Still sluggish but there were a few things to be optimistic about maybe?

The only optimistic thing I can think of, is that surely we can’t continue being this poor.

Having said this I’m not so sure

 

[DarloRich]

It wasn't that good!

I felt that it was an improvement on the last game. Still sluggish but there were a few things to be optimistic about maybe?

i think we moved from awful to mediocre! At least they looked like they had met before!

I felt that several layers looked tired. They looked scared. They were happy to have the ball and were tidy in knocking triangle balls but no one seemed willing to take responsibility for "running between or beyond the lines"

walker looked sloppy as did Trippier. Gallagher was a weak link, He was targeted and gave the ball away. Bellingham looked tired and had to sacrifice to allow Foden to play, Saka was leggy. Kane should have been taken off.

 

[Cowley]

walker looked sloppy as did Trippier. Gallagher was a weak link, He was targeted and gave the ball away. Bellingham looked tired and had to sacrifice to allow Foden to play, Saka was leggy. Kane should have been taken off.

Yeah. But apart from that…

 

[DarloRich]

Yeah. But apart from that…

otherwise decent

Positives: We are unbeaten & top of the group meaning we play a third place team. Sadly that is likely to be Holland. We didn't spurs it up, lose and finish second allowing us to face Germany in the second round which would have been very standard.



-

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I wonder how exited the England player was when his team manager sent him on with the great amount of time as one minute still to play? Was that one minute supposed to be the turning point of the game?

 

[Bantamzen]

well that was dull!

And that seems to be Southgate's tournament methodology, play safe, don't take risks, hope the opposition don't score on the break. I mean its got us close in the past, but we do have the players that could, just maybe go all the way. But the tactics will have to change because sitting back against the better teams will not work.

You mentioned that some players looked tired, and I agree. But I also couldn't help think that at times some like Bellingham looked almost disinterested. For example when Mainoo crossed into the box deep into the second half it was exactly where I'd expect the No.10, i.e. Bellingham to be charging into. But he was 5-10 yards off and not moving much. Maybe he was tired, but his whole demeanour just looked like someone who didn't want to be there. And believe me in my many decades at Valley Parade watching the not-always-mighty-Bantams, I've seen more than my fair share of disinterested players mooching about and sulking on the pitch to recognise it in the England team. There are those rumours of some unhappiness amongst the squad floating about the gutter media, normally I'd take little notice. But sometimes there's smoke because there is a fire burning somewhere. Southgate is going to have to stiffen his resolve a lot, sort out any internal issues and grow a pair for the next game.

And if that game is against the Dutch, so be it. Austria gave us a masterclass into how to wear them down, and its exactly how we want England to play. Pushing on and forcing the play worked well for them, and even though it risks getting caught on the break we just need to do an Austria and score one more than them.

 

[DarloRich]

And that seems to be Southgate's tournament methodology, play safe, don't take risks, hope the opposition don't score on the break.

Southgate is very risk averse but I cant believe he says to the team: don't try and do anything, just pass it in your triangles for 90 minutes. The players have to look at what they are doing. Did Southgate tell them not to take any responsibility to break into space? Did he tell them not to try and get a cross in? Players have to be brave/braver.

You mentioned that some players looked tired, and I agree. But I also couldn't help think that at times some like Bellingham looked almost disinterested. For example when Mainoo crossed into the box deep into the second half it was exactly where I'd expect the No.10, i.e. Bellingham to be charging into. But he was 5-10 yards off and not moving much. Maybe he was tired, but his whole demeanour just looked like someone who didn't want to be there

But Bellingham wasn't playing as a "10". He was pulling left to give Foden space to play his game. perhaps that is why he looked grumpy!

Kane doesn't look on it. I suspect the back injury he got at the end of the season is limiting his mobility. He doesn't seem as explosive as he should be. There was a lot of moaning about him dropping deep but I don't mind that IF someone goes into the space he creates. They didn't. Again, I cant believe Southgate told them not to!

 

[Bantamzen]

Southgate is very risk averse but I cant believe he says to the team: don't try and do anything, just pass it in your triangles for 90 minutes. The players have to look at what they are doing. Did Southgate tell them not to take any responsibility to break into space? Did he tell them not to try and get a cross in? Players have to be brave/braver.

But Bellingham wasn't playing as a "10". He was pulling left to give Foden space to play his game. perhaps that is why he looked grumpy!

Kane doesn't look on it. I suspect the back injury he got at the end of the season is limiting his mobility. He doesn't seem as explosive as he should be. There was a lot of moaning about him dropping deep but I don't mind that IF someone goes into the space he creates. They didn't. Again, I cant believe Southgate told them not to!

Sadly I can believe it. An entire squad doesn't go from what we saw in most of qualifying to what we see in the group games just because of the players. This is a tactical decision, and that comes from the manager. Worse still it seems to be having a negative impact on the players, suddenly finding themselves playing a different game that almost seems to play into the hands of the opposition. We have only qualified at the top of the group because the three other teams haven't quite had the quality to fully exploit our set-up. Put a half decent team against us playing the system we have been doing and we will get battered.

 

[DarloRich]

Sadly I can believe it. An entire squad doesn't go from what we saw in most of qualifying to what we see in the group games just because of the players. This is a tactical decision, and that comes from the manager.

that is the easy way out though surely - I maintain I cant believe the instruction is: just keep the ball, don't try anything, don't burst the line or look for space.

Put a half decent team against us playing the system we have been doing and we will get battered.

Slovenia sat deep with 2 banks of 4. They kept a very rigid shape, very very disciplined, very structured and didn't show much adventure. England struggle against that sort of set up.

Holland wont play that way. it will be more open. It should be a different game.

 

[Haywain]

Slovenia sat deep with 2 banks of 4. They kept a very rigid shape, very very disciplined, very structured and didn't show much adventure. England struggle against that sort of set up.

Indeed. It’s important to look at how the Slovenians celebrated when the full-time whistle blew. They had clearly set out to avoid defeat and nothing more.

 

[Bantamzen]

that is the easy way out though surely - I maintain I cant believe the instruction is: just keep the ball, don't try anything, don't burst the line or look for space.

Maybe it is the easy way out, doesn't mean its not true. I mean an awful lot of people, including pundits are at least thinking it out loudly if not just plain saying it.

Slovenia sat deep with 2 banks of 4. They kept a very rigid shape, very very disciplined, very structured and didn't show much adventure. England struggle against that sort of set up.

Holland wont play that way. it will be more open. It should be a different game.

But to beat the 2 banks, you don't simply keep passing the ball around them, you try to get players moving to break the lines, especially down the wings. Holland certainly won't play that way thankfully, however if we don't press they will move up on to our back line, and they do have the players to break through.

 

[DarloRich]

But to beat the 2 banks, you don't simply keep passing the ball around them, you try to get players moving to break the lines, especially down the wings

you do - you move the ball sharply and quickly and try and pull the defenders out of shape, make a hole and dart through or make the space for the cross. We didn't.

Holland certainly won't play that way thankfully, however if we don't press they will move up on to our back line, and they do have the players to break through.

Agreed.

Indeed. It’s important to look at how the Slovenians celebrated when the full-time whistle blew. They had clearly set out to avoid defeat and nothing more.

at the danger of getting all Andy Townsends tactics truck here: They were happy for England to have the ball almost all of the time. They only engaged when England got to the final third and were determined not to offer any space between the lines or any space wide. They only ever offered the outside line and were determined not to allow anyone to cut in and drive on goal. They absolutely did not allow the thier shape to change at any point.

it is how Scotland should have played against Germany but instead they gave the Germans space to play in the spaces and got punished.

EDIT - England ALWAYS struggle against that kind of approach.

 

[dangie]

I honestly believe that most of the players are more upset that they‘re missing weeks of a summer holiday in the sun, when they could be frolicking on the beach. Instead they are playing matches they’ve got no real interest in. I’m sure their families aren’t happy.

 

[Haywain]

They only ever offered the outside line and were determined not to allow anyone to cut in and drive on goal. They absolutely did not allow the thier shape to change at any point.

They were very disciplined in their approach and kept the shape remarkably well, and deserve credit for that.

 

[DarloRich]

They were very disciplined in their approach and kept the shape remarkably well, and deserve credit for that.

Absolutely - I was quite impressed tbh although I only noticed how well they were doing because the game was SO boring!

I believe the football hipsters call it "the low block". It used to be called defending!