Euston overcrowding

[Dsm78]

I've commuted into and out of Euston for 20+ years and tonight was the worst management I've ever seen and pretty dangerous.

I'm usually pretty laid back and disruption and crowds happen but tonight was so bad I wanted to share my experience.

I arrived about 1730 and came up through the underground tunnel to platforms 8-11 hoping to catch the 1739. As I came up the stairs there were a lot of people standing around and all the platform indicators displayed the 'platform closed' message, which told me there must be delays.

I waited there for a couple of mins and then the Overground to Watford Junction was displayed on platform 8 indicators, I excused myself through the crowd to the front ready to go through the barriers. This is when I discovered all the barriers had all been set to exit only meaning we could not get onto the platform to wait for the arrival of the 1744 to WJ.

As I was now at the front I could hear all the interactions with the LNWR staff and people asking to be let through. The main excuse was that we can't let you through as you can't have too many people on the platform as the overhead electrics are dangerous...

By this point we had been joined by A LOT of people from the main concourse as the Overground has obviously been advertised and people made their way down to find out they couldn't get through the barriers. There was about 400-500 people on the ramp before the barriers and staff were not letting us through to fairly empty platforms.

The LNWR staff keep telling us we shouldn't be down here but the Overground train was advertised as boarding on all the indicators so sensibly people wanted to join that train.

Then a incoming LNWR train arrived and then that exiting crowd had nowhere to go against the 400-500 people completely blocking the ramp and underground tunnel.

Then the Overground arrived and again they would not let us through and so all these people tried to battle through. It was only then they allowed us onto the platform and then that caused a bit of a rush as the Overground was due to leave.

It was really awful and something really needs to be done as it was badly managed and really dangerous. Limited staff on the platform and gate line and no one seemed to be in control and most of the announcements inaudible.

Sone photo attached.

 

[BRX]

Someone reported to me that they'd met very bad overcrowding at Euston when arriving on an Avanti service this evening at much the same time.

My impression is that the silly new layout of multiple small destination boards, with the big previous one converted to advertising, encourages overcrowding in the concourse because of where people now stand.

 

[RJ]

I was there about 1645 and somebody had collapsed on the concourse right in front of the ramp for platforms 8-11. I hope the person was ok but I couldn’t help but worry that the makeshift barrier erected around them was at risk of being knocked down by the habitual sprinting stampedes.

There are now departure boards outside the station building which helps to spread the crowds a little bit. What else can really be done?

 

[74A]

The biggest issue in this case is that you weren't let through the barriers after the platform was announced.

If a platform is announced you should be let through the barriers. If it's not safe to do so then the platform should nor be announced.

Seems like a breakdown in communication between station control and the barrier staff.

 

[stuu]

As I was now at the front I could hear all the interactions with the LNWR staff and people asking to be let through. The main excuse was that we can't let you through as you can't have too many people on the platform as the overhead electrics are dangerous...

What the....???

Sounds like a massive training issue at the minimum. Have you complained to NR/Avanti?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Have you complained to NR/Avanti?

Why is what happened yesterday an issue for Avanti?

 

[Watershed]

I was there about 1645 and somebody had collapsed on the concourse right in front of the ramp for platforms 8-11. I hope the person was ok but I couldn’t help but worry that the makeshift barrier erected around them was at risk of being knocked down by the habitual sprinting stampedes.

There are now departure boards outside the station building which helps to spread the crowds a little bit. What else can really be done?

For one, they could stop with the ridiculous charade of hiding platforms and disabling barriers until the last minute. There is far more space for people to stand on the platforms than there is on the 'public' side of the barriers.

It's mismanagement of the highest order but I fear it will take a stampede with injuries or possibly fatalities before someone gets a grip.

 

[Deafdoggie]

For one, they could stop with the ridiculous charade of hiding platforms and disabling barriers until the last minute. There is far more space for people to stand on the platforms than there is on the 'public' side of the barriers.

It's mismanagement of the highest order but I fear it will take a stampede with injuries or possibly fatalities before someone gets a grip.

Absolutely. NR are literally waiting for someone to be killed before they do anything. Odd for a company claiming safety, and it makes you wonder how safe they really are. There's zero evidence of it

 

[londonmidland]

Just a warning anyone travelling out of Euston this evening - there’s a points failure at Watford Junction.

Most departures are currently being delayed from Euston.

A screenshot showing the departures from Euston via the Railboard iOS app, with services being displayed at ‘delayed’

 

[Brooke]

Absolutely. NR are literally waiting for someone to be killed before they do anything. Odd for a company claiming safety, and it makes you wonder how safe they really are. There's zero evidence of it

I agree. My wife is a “frequent flyer” at Euston and several times she’s felt at risk of getting crushed, trampled etc. I fear it’s only a matter of time before something serious happens there.

 

[Mikey C]

For one, they could stop with the ridiculous charade of hiding platforms and disabling barriers until the last minute. There is far more space for people to stand on the platforms than there is on the 'public' side of the barriers.

It's mismanagement of the highest order but I fear it will take a stampede with injuries or possibly fatalities before someone gets a grip.

Euston must have the largest platforms out of any of the London termini, yet is the most determined to keep passengers away from them.

 

[185]

Sounds like a massive training issue at the minimum. Have you complained to NR/Avanti?

The very fact passengers were demanding to go past staff who had shut the overcrowded platform in line with clear procedures suggests the real retraining need is of (some of) the passengers... the film Idiocracy springs to mind. The real issue at Euston is those stupid departure boards, which added to last nights mess on the concourse.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Which London termini routinely open their barriers and allow intending passengers to mill around on the platforms (and thereby ‘create room’) when services are significantly disrupted or suspended?
Is Euston an outlier in this respect?

 

[bramling]

The very fact passengers were demanding to go past staff who had shut the overcrowded platform in line with clear procedures suggests the real retraining need is of (some of) the passengers... the film Idiocracy springs to mind. The real issue at Euston is those stupid departure boards, which added to last nights mess on the concourse.

I always get the feeling that in the case of Euston the way the station is run seems to make things worse than if they did nothing. At times it almost feels like someone is actually going out of their way to make the whole place as awful to use as possible.

The routine late announcing of services is one of the problems, as it encourages people to make a frantic dash, which has become ingrained in how many people behave there.

It also doesn’t help that some of the staff seem to have undergone their training at Blackpool North, not so much the LNWR staff but certainly Avanti.

 

[Dsm78]

My main issue, while I was there, was advertising the next Overground departure and then not letting people through to gain access to the platform meaning the whole ramp and width of the closed gateline was full of people for this advertised train. Pretty much 'kettling' us next to the barriers while the platform was relatively empty.

More people kept joining as the departure continued to be advertised to the point arriving passengers could not exit.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Noting that there a variety of scenarios when the London Overground ‘DC’ service may well be the only one able to operate with any degree of normality (during major and sustained main line disruption) because of its largely self-contained nature, would there be any merit in some sort of dedicated ‘lane’ on the ramp for LO departures and arrivals?

Obviously it would be necessary to avoid also encouraging stranded passengers waiting for services to Glasgow, Holyhead, etc. to just wander down and spread out.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Which London termini routinely open their barriers and allow intending passengers to mill around on the platforms (and thereby ‘create room’) when services are significantly disrupted or suspended?
Is Euston an outlier in this respect?

Marylebone staff don't care if you hang around "railside" of the gateline.

Generally, InterCity stations don't allow it and those with predominantly regional services do. Euston P8-11 is designed for people to wait down there with benches etc and direct access from the Tube, the rest of the station isn't.

Noting that there a variety of scenarios when the London Overground ‘DC’ service may well be the only one able to operate with any degree of normality (during major and sustained main line disruption) because of its largely self-contained nature, would there be any merit in some sort of dedicated ‘lane’ on the ramp for LO departures and arrivals?

Probably not. I've never known the pictured situation arise in all my time using Euston - normally going onto 8-11 when you want is fine.

 

[Cross City]

Somebody will die there one day because of the poor management and organisation. I do everything to avoid using it.

 

[Blackpool boy]

Someone reported to me that they'd met very bad overcrowding at Euston when arriving on an Avanti service this evening at much the same time.

My impression is that the silly new layout of multiple small destination boards, with the big previous one converted to advertising, encourages overcrowding in the concourse because of where people now stand.

The pictures dont seem to show these new notice boards as being the problem though - this is by the barrierline

 

[Dr Hoo]

Generally, InterCity stations don't allow it and those with predominantly regional services do.

Thanks. (I’ve not commuted from ‘south of the river’ for nigh on 40 years.)

So, to make sure that I’ve got this right, at stations like Charing Cross, Waterloo, Victoria and Liverpool Street (surface level) it is now routine to go to ‘all barriers open’ during major disruption/crowding, so that delayed passengers can spread out?

 

[Trainbike46]

Euston is fairly unique in only advertising the platforms a very short time before departure, and genuinely blocking the platform entrances until platforms are advertised.

Thanks. (I’ve not commuted from ‘south of the river’ for nigh on 40 years.)

So, to make sure that I’ve got this right, at stations like Charing Cross, Waterloo, Victoria and Liverpool Street (surface level) it is now routine to go to ‘all barriers open’ during major disruption/crowding, so that delayed passengers can spread out?

What do you mean by all barriers open?

Whenever I have used Liverpool street, passengers with a ticket were able to enter the platforms at any point though, so the barriers were 'closed' in the sense that you needed a ticket to get through, but 'open' in the sense that you could pass them with a ticket.

 

[Deafdoggie]

The very fact passengers were demanding to go past staff who had shut the overcrowded platform in line with clear procedures suggests the real retraining need is of (some of) the passengers... the film Idiocracy springs to mind. The real issue at Euston is those stupid departure boards, which added to last nights mess on the concourse.

A fairly typical railway response. We will announce a platform at the very last minute, then not open the platform barriers. But it's not our fault it's those pesky passengers. Why are passengers running when we've given them 10 seconds to get to the platform. Why are they crushing when we've told them the platform but not opened the barriers for them to get through?

 

[Trainbike46]

The very fact passengers were demanding to go past staff who had shut the overcrowded platform in line with clear procedures suggests the real retraining need is of (some of) the passengers... the film Idiocracy springs to mind. The real issue at Euston is those stupid departure boards, which added to last nights mess on the concourse.

What do you think the response from passengers to the following situation should be:
- The platform of their train is announced, and will depart soon
- When heading to the platform, they find all barriers closed

Asking staff seems like the sensible thing to do here, so I'm genuinely wondering why you think the passengers need "retraining"??

In any case, if your strategy for crowd management is that the general public needs to be "trained" to behave in the correct way, I'd say your crowd management strategy is doomed to fail....

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thanks. (I’ve not commuted from ‘south of the river’ for nigh on 40 years.)

So, to make sure that I’ve got this right, at stations like Charing Cross, Waterloo, Victoria and Liverpool Street (surface level) it is now routine to go to ‘all barriers open’ during major disruption/crowding, so that delayed passengers can spread out?

No, that's not routine. The gates are generally not as actively managed as at places like Paddington, usually there'll just be half set to go in and half set to go out (roughly, sometimes they fiddle with the balance) and people will just use their ticket to go in when they want to regardless of whether the platform is showing or not. Some stations have more of a scrum than others (Victoria has quite a bad one) though. There is generally no active "opening a train for boarding" when it comes to South East commuter stations - it might be suppressed on the screen, but the gateline just remains set up for in and out.

At Euston if two trains arrive at once the 8-11 gates are normally opened to prevent the platform taking too long to clear (which isn't really dangerous but does disrupt people wanting to board).

During disruption the 8-11 gates at Euston are very often just left open, presumably the staff have better things to do (and it makes it easier to deal with platform alterations).

In short it isn't actively used as a place to send people to free up concourse space, but by and large nobody minds if people choose to go there.

In any case, if your strategy for crowd management is that the general public needs to be "trained" to behave in the correct way, I'd say your crowd management strategy is doomed to fail....

Indeed. Public safety measures work best if they are "passive", i.e. the safe thing is the intuitive choice. If you have to give people instructions you've already got a potentially dangerous situation developing. Hence why (for example) platform edge doors are better than cheap security guards barking orders into loud hailers (yes, you, Manchester Piccadilly).

 

[sheff1]

Euston is fairly unique in only advertising the platforms a very short time before departure, and genuinely blocking the platform entrances until platforms are advertised.

St Pancras EMR adopt the late advertising with access blocked policy most of the time. It is a pleasant surprise if I arrive to find access allowed 10 minutes before departure.
The policy does cause a rush, especially when the train people want is at the far end of the platform but, other than at times of disruption, there is nowhere near the number of passengers as at Euston.
The busiest part of St Pancras is Thameslink, but platform access there is always possible. I rarely use the Southeastern section and can't remember what the arrangements are there - anyone know ?

 

[RailWonderer]

So, to make sure that I’ve got this right, at stations like Charing Cross, Waterloo, Victoria and Liverpool Street (surface level) it is now routine to go to ‘all barriers open’ during major disruption/crowding, so that delayed passengers can spread out?

At Liverpool St, never. Fare protection even if it results in gross overcrowding is the priority. I've had open gates once in 13 years. At Paddington I've had open gates several times in the same period of time.

Whenever I have used Liverpool street, passengers with a ticket were able to enter the platforms at any point though, so the barriers were 'closed' in the sense that you needed a ticket to get through, but 'open' in the sense that you could pass them with a ticket.

Yes, yet many trains departing Euston has similarly lengthy turnarounds to Liverpool St departures. The culture is totally wrong amongst Euston gateline staff and something that a standardised public railway body would fix training wise. I would also encourage people to boycott Blackpool North station for the same reason. Use buses or drive if possible and get off at Poulton if you can (I don't know the area but I hate this anti-customer mentality).

Hence why (for example) platform edge doors are better than cheap security guards barking orders into loud hailers (yes, you, Manchester Piccadilly).

You're not suggesting platform edge doors for a station that operates several different types of rolling stock?

 

[Hadders]

There seems to be mis-management of the boiarding process at Euston.

Platforms advertised unnecessarily late which encourages the 'stampede' down the ramps - one day someone will get seriously hurt
Not letting people ont othe platforms early. There is no reason not to do this. I was told they aren't allowed to do this because people on a platform when a trtain is arriving into the platform is too dangerous - err what happens at practically every station across the country then.

The ORR has issued an improvement notice on Network Rail over crowd management at Euston. I don't know what the outcome of this is but I would encourage anyone witnessing anything dangerous to report it to the ORR.

Rail regulator requires crowd management improvements at Euston Station | Office of Rail and Road

Network Rail has been issued with an improvement notice by the Office of Rail and Road for London’s Euston Station, where the company has failed to put in effective measures to prevent risks to passengers and others during instances of surges and overcrowding.

www.orr.gov.uk

 

[Dsm78]

There seems to be mis-management of the boiarding process at Euston.

Platforms advertised unnecessarily late which encourages the 'stampede' down the ramps - one day someone will get seriously hurt
Not letting people ont othe platforms early. There is no reason not to do this. I was told they aren't allowed to do this because people on a platform when a trtain is arriving into the platform is too dangerous - err what happens at practically every station across the country then.

The ORR has issued an improvement notice on Network Rail over crowd management at Euston. I don't know what the outcome of this is but I would encourage anyone witnessing anything dangerous to report it to the ORR.

Rail regulator requires crowd management improvements at Euston Station | Office of Rail and Road

Network Rail has been issued with an improvement notice by the Office of Rail and Road for London’s Euston Station, where the company has failed to put in effective measures to prevent risks to passengers and others during instances of surges and overcrowding.

www.orr.gov.uk

I did tag the ORR in the tweet I sent. But I'll also look at the more formal route.

 

[Transilien]

When did the scramble in Euston become a thing? Has it been a 'feature' of the station since the rebuild or was it added later?

 

[Trackman]

My impression is that the silly new layout of multiple small destination boards, with the big previous one converted to advertising, encourages overcrowding in the concourse because of where people now stand.

There is another thread about this, don't get me started on the new screens!

Euston must have the largest platforms out of any of the London termini, yet is the most determined to keep passengers away from them.

To stop overcrowding on the platforms! - seriously.