Railcard discounts to be reduced to 33.4%

[Wolfie]

you could use it until it runs out, in all likelyhood.

That would be fine.

 

[sheff1]

This completely overlooks the fact that regional German train fares are effectively capped at €49/month. So it's only intercity train journeys that are subject to this lower discount.

Moreover, you can get a BahnCard 50 for just €244 (std) / €492 (1st) a year, whilst a BahnCard 100, which constitutes a country-wide annual season ticket valid on virtually all public transport, including IC/ICE services, costs €4550 (std) / €7714 (1st).

There are also youth and senior discounts on most of the above Bahncards, as well as "Probe" (trial) versions valid for 3 months at a reduced cost.

Meanwhile, in Britain, 30-59 year olds are generally only eligible for restrictive area-based Railcards such as the Network Railcard or (indirectly) the Annual Gold Card.

Even those eligible for 16-25 etc. Railcards find that commutes on regional trains typically cost hundreds of pounds a month. On long-distance trains the cost can easily reach five figures a year - and that's for seasons (or daily tickets) that just cover one specific route, so you have to pay again to make other journeys.

Overall Britain comes out very unfavourably in this comparison.

Indeed. For the cost of an annual countrywide ticket in Germany you would only get around 60 days of travel using All Line Rovers in Great Britain (and of course those come with time restrictions for some journeys).

Meanwhile taking a random season ticket, an annual Peterborough to London Terminals is over twice the price of the countrywide BahnCard 100.

If commuters and regular long-disatnce travellers here were fully aware of the costs of German rail travel they would most certainly not agree with the statement that "German fares aren't exactly cheap".

 

[Watershed]

The advertised discount when purchasing the railcard is 1/3 for adults and it has been for as long as I can remember; the wayback machine shows it was that rate in 2001.

So as long as the discount is at least 1/3 there would, in my opinion, be no way of seeking recourse against that. A discount of greater than 1/3 is a bonus (e.g. when TPE were offering 50% for 16-25 railcard holders) but it is not an entitlement.

Much as I think it's needlessly sneaky and penny-pinching, I don't see there's a contractual issue with reducing the discount from 34% to 33.4%.

It's been advertised as 1/3 in many places, yes. But the examples of savings on the RDG's own Railcard website showed a 34% discount, and the NRE page clearly showed a 34% discount being offered.

You might consider that common sense, but we've seen time and time again the information on NRE be considered "guidance" and non-bindings from the industry

The only question would be whether it was "taken into account" in the customer's purchasing decision, under section 50 of the Consumer Rights Act. There can be little question that information on NRE is "said or written to the consumer, by or on behalf of the trader, about the trader or the service" given that it is under RDG control and buying a Railcard involves entering into a contract with the RDG.

 

[TUC]

I do strongly suspect that this is the kind of issue that no one but certain rail enthusiasts could care less about.

 

[bakerstreet]

I do strongly suspect that this is the kind of issue that no one but certain rail enthusiasts could care less about.

It’s direction of travel.
It’s not the 0.6%.
It’s erosion after erosion after erosion.
In recent times:
LNER ‘trial’
Removal of super off peaks in Oval
and

Tazi Hupefi said:
Incidentally there are other proposals which haven't leaked yet - which affect Railcard discounts. Probably for an announcement once the election has settled.

In the past
Fares ‘simplification’
Reduction of off peak times on some flows.

It’s a continual revenue grab whilst dishonestly purporting to be offering simplification or fares reduction or more choice or ‘modern flexibility’ (ie less)

 

[Ediswan]

I blame whoever decided to convert the original "1/3 off" to a round percentage.

 

[miklcct]

I do strongly suspect that this is the kind of issue that no one but certain rail enthusiasts could care less about.

If the discount was advertised as 34% at the time of purchase and it ended up being 33.4% it is a blatant breach of contract that general customers will definitely notice.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Incidentally there are other proposals which haven't leaked yet - which affect Railcard discounts. Probably for an announcement once the election has settled.

While I don't like the idea, the minimum fare of £13 (where applicable) hasn't gone up in a long time now, whereas fares as a whole have.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Thought it was £12

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thought it was £12

£12 on 16-25, £13 on Network, it appears.

 

[JonathanH]

While I don't like the idea, the minimum fare of £13 (where applicable) hasn't gone up in a long time now, whereas fares as a whole have.

Yes, it should be well over £20 by now if it had gone up. Extending it to the weekend might just about kill it off.

 

[BigCj34]

I hope split ticketing doesn't go anywhere for this reason, simplification is only going to mean one thing!

 

[800Travel]

The minimum fare on 16-25 is not good IMO. It stops people on short commutes from using their discount every morning!

 

[CyrusWuff]

£12 on 16-25, £13 on Network, it appears.

Though with the move to Single Leg Pricing (e.g. LNER and Project Oval) it would make sense to review that, given there are bound to be cases where you would have previously hit the minimum fare but don't any more.

 

[skyhigh]

The minimum fare on 16-25 is not good IMO. It stops people on short commutes from using their discount every morning!

That is essentially the whole point of the minimum fare.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Evening peak restrictions on the Network Railcard? There are a good many commuter flows where a single each way, the return being discounted with a Railcard is cheaper than an Anytime Return.

This used to be avoided by way of asymmetric fares and London bound Anytime Day Singles being considerably more than half a Return. As Oval requires them to be symmetric and single fare priced, I can see why this could be more of an issue for the railway now than it was when the NSE became a thing.

Certainly on the south WCML it only became worth doing it when London Midland brought in the three step fares and with them symmetric pricing and Anytime Day Singles being half the return both ways.

 

[JonathanH]

Evening peak restrictions on the Network Railcard? There are a good many commuter flows where a single each way, the return being discounted with a Railcard is cheaper than an Anytime Return.

A 'double whammy' of evening peak restrictions on more routes, and an evening peak on the railcard as well would be a very expensive move.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A 'double whammy' of evening peak restrictions on more routes, and an evening peak on the railcard as well would be a very expensive move.

Personally it'd mean a cheeky Nando's and a wait for the off peak would almost pay for itself compared to undiscounted Anytime each way (and the railway would get about £4 less than it does now).

 

[JonathanH]

Personally it'd mean a cheeky Nando's and a wait for the off peak would pay for itself compared to undiscounted Anytime each way (and the railway would get about £4 less than it does now).

That is fine for someone who can delay their journey back. Many can't.

 

[Wolfie]

The minimum fare on 16-25 is not good IMO. It stops people on short commutes from using their discount every morning!

That is exactly why it is in place! Railcards are intended for off-peak leisure travel not making going to work in peak time cheaper!

 

[800Travel]

That is exactly why it is in place! Railcards are intended for off-peak leisure travel not making going to work in peak time cheaper!

Not work I was talking about tbh. School, Sixth Form, University.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not work I was talking about tbh. School, Sixth Form, University.

It's not intended for that either. Though the old rationale for it was to reduce crowding at booking offices - if it isn't cheaper per day than a season then with almost all young people purchasing on their phone the rationale is less clear.

The whole point of it is to push people making a daily journey, regardless of reason, onto season tickets.

The entire point of Railcards is to encourage more discretionary leisure journeys (and build habits of doing so that might continue after ceasing to be eligible).

 

[Wolfie]

It's not intended for that either. Though the old rationale for it was to reduce crowding at booking offices - if it isn't cheaper per day than a season then with almost all young people purchasing on their phone the rationale is less clear.

The whole point of it is to push people making a daily journey, regardless of reason, onto season tickets.

The entire point of Railcards is to encourage more discretionary leisure journeys (and build habits of doing so that might continue after ceasing to be eligible).

Yup

 

[Haywain]

Not work I was talking about tbh. School, Sixth Form, University.

The school journeys would qualify for a lower fare with a 16-17 Saver these days.

 

[yorksrob]

Putting an evening peak restriction on railcards would seriously impede their stated purpose of encouraging leisure travel.

 

[JonathanH]

Putting an evening peak restriction on railcards would seriously impede their stated purpose of encouraging leisure travel.

It would be explained as encouraging leisure users to choose to travel at less busy times.

 

[yorksrob]

It would be explained as encouraging leisure users to choose to travel at less busy times.

The problem is that leisure travellets will likely want a lay-in and have some breakfast - thus perhaps being prepared to miss the morning peak, however they will want to travel back at their leisure (hence the name), so a large evening peak restriction is just an obstacle.

Railway management don't seem to understand that people don't always want to be herded around at the industry's convenience.

 

[D6130]

The problem is that leisure travellets will likely want a lay-in and have some breakfast - thus perhaps being prepared to miss the morning peak, however they will want to travel back at their leisure (hence the name), so a large evening peak restriction is just an obstacle.

Railway management don't seem to understand that people don't always want to be herded around at the industry's convenience.

In fairness, there always used to be an evening peak restriction on off-peak tickets in BR days.....certainly when I was involved in selling and checking tickets.

 

[yorksrob]

In fairness, there always used to be an evening peak restriction on off-peak tickets in BR days.....certainly when I was involved in selling and checking tickets.

I've lived in West Yorkshire for many years where we didn't have an evening peak and one was introduced a few years ago. It is a nuisance and makes it a pain when trying to plan an evening. Such a thing might have been appropriate in BR days, but BR wasn't as reliant on leisure travel as the current railway is.

 

[lachlan]

It's not intended for that either. Though the old rationale for it was to reduce crowding at booking offices - if it isn't cheaper per day than a season then with almost all young people purchasing on their phone the rationale is less clear.

The whole point of it is to push people making a daily journey, regardless of reason, onto season tickets.

The entire point of Railcards is to encourage more discretionary leisure journeys (and build habits of doing so that might continue after ceasing to be eligible).

Presumably the disabled railcard is excluded from this as it doesn't have a time restriction or minimum fare - as someone commuting three days per week, it's much cheaper to buy Anytime returns with a railcard than to get a season.