Railcard discounts to be reduced to 33.4%

[yorksrob]

Incidentally there are other proposals which haven't leaked yet - which affect Railcard discounts. Probably for an announcement once the election has settled.

Let me guess - putting fares up ? Seems to be the only thing RDG are any good at.

 

[Alex C.]

Let me guess - putting fares up ? Seems to be the only thing RDG are any good at.

Evening peak restrictions on the Network Railcard? There are a good many commuter flows where a single each way, the return being discounted with a Railcard is cheaper than an Anytime Return.

 

[Hadders]

Incidentally there are other proposals which haven't leaked yet - which affect Railcard discounts. Probably for an announcement once the election has settled.

We can be certain that these changes won't benefit passengers.

I suspect we'll see some sort of 'simlification' involving some or all of the following:

- Increase in price of railcards
- Reduction of discount value
- Introduction/increase of minimum fares
- Increase in age of qualification of Senior Railcard
- Tightening of eligibility for Disabled Railcard
- Restrictions on peak travel
- Lower discounts for certain fare types (eg Advance)
- Removal of Network Railcard (they'd better not...)

There'll be more that can be added to the list.

If anything happens that greatly disbenefits passengers happens then we should be prepared to kick up a proper stink.

 

[yorksrob]

evening peak restrictions on the network railcard? There are a good many commuter flows where a single 1 each way, the return being discounted is cheaper than an anytime return.

We can be certain that these changes won't benefit passengers.

I suspect we'll see some sort of 'simlification' involving some or all of the following:

- Increase in price of railcards
- Reduction of discount value
- Introduction/increase of minimum fares
- Increase in age of qualification of Senior Railcard
- Tightening of eligibility for Disabled Railcard
- Restrictions on peak travel
- Lower discounts for certain fare types (eg Advance)
- Removal of Network Railcard (they'd better not...)

There'll be more that can be added to the list.

If anything happens that greatly disbenefits passengers happens then we should be prepared to kick up a proper stink.

None of this would surprise me.

 

[John R]

Incidentally there are other proposals which haven't leaked yet - which affect Railcard discounts. Probably for an announcement once the election has settled.

Oh dear, that sounds ominous!

 

[Haywain]

Increase in price of railcards

Given how long it is since the price last changed it would be difficult to argue much with that.

 

[185143]

Given how long it is since the price last changed it would be difficult to argue much with that.

True. They could have increased the cost of railcards in line with fare increases each year. I suppose we should be grateful they haven't

 

[TUC]

I was surprised to see, as part of the upgrade to Huddersfield station some old posters were uncovered, including adverts for the Senior Railcard and its 50% discount.

I think that changed to one third when the discount was extended to Advance fares.

 

[1D54]

We can be certain that these changes won't benefit passengers.

I suspect we'll see some sort of 'simlification' involving some or all of the following:

- Increase in age of qualification of Senior Railcard

If anything happens that greatly disbenefits passengers happens then we should be prepared to kick up a proper stink.

I've been expecting the above for a while so would not be surprised. For me personally it'd mean after having travelled the network for 4 years on a Senior Railcard I would probably have to wait 12 months to qualify for a new one.

 

[yorksrob]

True. They could have increased the cost of railcards in line with fare increases each year. I suppose we should be grateful they haven't

Surely the fares going up every year is enough.

 

[bakerstreet]

We can be certain that these changes won't benefit passengers.

I suspect we'll see some sort of 'simlification' involving some or all of the following:

- Increase in price of railcards
- Reduction of discount value
- Introduction/increase of minimum fares
- Increase in age of qualification of Senior Railcard
- Tightening of eligibility for Disabled Railcard
- Restrictions on peak travel
- Lower discounts for certain fare types (eg Advance)
- Removal of Network Railcard (they'd better not...)

There'll be more that can be added to the list.

If anything happens that greatly disbenefits passengers happens then we should be prepared to kick up a proper stink.

Any major changes in this regard
which significantly harm/slash/destroy passenger benefits would be an interesting test if the predictions of an incoming Labour government prove accurate.

 

[AlterEgo]

They should never have advertised 34%. Railcards were always a third off. 34% was to prevent anyone getting less than a third due to rounding
Just goes to show the industry is full of people who don't know what they're doing

Each of the four sentences in this post contradicts at least one other in some way. A beautiful thing to look at, actually.

 

[jfollows]

I've been expecting the above for a while so would not be surprised. For me personally it'd mean after having travelled the network for 4 years on a Senior Railcard I would probably have to wait 12 months to qualify for a new one.

I'd propose two contrary thoughts:

1. People with Senior Railcards (I have one too) make trips they wouldn't otherwise make, generally at off-peak times, so increasing the age would decrease the revenue.
2. Quite often if age limits are increased they're done gradually, to avoid trapping you (and me) in this way, maybe one year at a time.

Clearly there are people still working at the age of 60 who benefit from the railcard as it stands and would otherwise still travel and pay full fare, which is contrary to my first point.

 

[The exile]

Initially, but it was still 50% when the railcard became available to non-students (under 24, I think) without a name change.

And remained 50% initially when the age was raised to 26.

 

[Wolfie]

I'd propose two contrary thoughts:

1. People with Senior Railcards (I have one too) make trips they wouldn't otherwise make, generally at off-peak times, so increasing the age would decrease the revenue.
2. Quite often if age limits are increased they're done gradually, to avoid trapping you (and me) in this way, maybe one year at a time.

Clearly there are people still working at the age of 60 who benefit from the railcard as it stands and would otherwise still travel and pay full fare, which is contrary to my first point.

So what happens if someone aged 60 buys a three year Senior Railcard and then they put up the eligibility age to say 65?

 

[MrJeeves]

So what happens if someone aged 60 buys a three year Senior Railcard and then they put up the eligibility age to say 65?

1. Quite often if age limits are increased they're done gradually, to avoid trapping you (and me) in this way, maybe one year at a time.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Any major changes in this regard
which significantly harm/slash/destroy passenger benefits would be an interesting test if the predictions of an incoming Labour government prove accurate.

Anything could happen, but this is probably professional rail people trying to improve their business in difficult times.
Once set up, Labour's GBR will probably not get involved with changes like this, any more than they did with BR's pricing policies.
At the very least, I would expect Railcard pricing to reflect recent inflation.

 

[D6130]

I have two questions to ask on this topic:

(1) Do we know when these changes are planned to be implemented?

and

(2) How will they affect the price of a fourteen day first class All-line Rover - purchased with a Senior Railcard - and commencing on 6th September this year?

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Perhaps a more speculative question for another part of the forum, but I do think Railcards are probably far too cheap and people would pay significantly more and still travel just as much, perhaps even more, to get more perceived value out of it.

Look at the Bahn Card 25 - €62.90 and only valid for second class discounts. €125 if you want first class discounts too. And only 25% discount - and German fares aren't exactly cheap.

 

[Haywain]

I have two questions to ask on this topic:

(1) Do we know when these changes are planned to be implemented?

and

(2) How will they affect the price of a fourteen day first class All-line Rover - purchased with a Senior Railcard - and commencing on 6th September this year?

It's just speculation, so it may not even happen (other than the couple of quid extra the discount change will cost).

 

[The exile]

Perhaps a more speculative question for another part of the forum, but I do think Railcards are probably far too cheap and people would pay significantly more and still travel just as much, perhaps even more, to get more perceived value out of it.

Look at the Bahn Card 25 - €62.90 and only valid for second class discounts. €125 if you want first class discounts too. And only 25% discount - and German fares aren't exactly cheap.

Though those are of course available for anyone to purchase.

 

[SWT_USER]

Perhaps a more speculative question for another part of the forum, but I do think Railcards are probably far too cheap and people would pay significantly more and still travel just as much, perhaps even more, to get more perceived value out of it.

Look at the Bahn Card 25 - €62.90 and only valid for second class discounts. €125 if you want first class discounts too. And only 25% discount - and German fares aren't exactly cheap.

But valid all day, every day, countrywide and available to everyone. Not really comparable to many (any) UK railcards.

 

[ainsworth74]

Look at the Bahn Card 25 - €62.90 and only valid for second class discounts. €125 if you want first class discounts too. And only 25% discount - and German fares aren't exactly cheap.

Though, of course, those products are available to everyone, all the time with no minimum fares. The current Railcards are restricted to specific groups. If you wanted to introduce a National Railcard then by all means make it expensive but it seems unfair to substantially increase the price (I'm not necessarily opposed to a small increase) on a product which is heavily restricted.

 

[Sleepy]

I can see the Senior Railcard not being valid in morning peak within London and south east (Network area) being applied everywhere ? Or no discount on Advance fares to London Terminals arrivals before 1000 weekdays !!

 

[Tetchytyke]

Look at the Bahn Card 25 - €62.90 and only valid for second class discounts. €125 if you want first class discounts too. And only 25% discount - and German fares aren't exactly cheap.

True, but the Bahn Card is available to all and sundry, not just heavily restricted groups.

As a working age adult I'm eligible for two railcards, as I have a partner and child. One of those railcards isn't valid in first class and the other isn't valid before 0930, and neither are valid if I'm travelling alone. EUR63 is about GBP 50, and is much much better value than any of the Railcards currently available in GB even after the additional GBP 20 cost.

As for the OP, it's interesting that the level of railcard discount isn't included in the railcard T&Cs. The advertising does say 1/3 though, and has done for a long time- this is from 2021:


The actual level of discount is only included in the ticket type T&Cs:
(old)

(new)


So I'd say it's sneaky and typical of the RDG- price gougers, the lot of them- but the discount isn't less than advertised at railcard purchase so there's no comeback. National Railcards didn't say the discount was 34%, they said it was 1/3.

The ticket T&Cs are the ones that apply at purchase and these can be changed. So those who bought before the change will have enjoyed the 34% discount in line with the T&Cs and those who bought after the change will enjoy 1/3 in line with the ticket T&Cs and the Railcard advertisement, so there's no comeback there either.

ETA: My view would be different if the ticket T&Cs change to reduce the discount to less than 1/3. Railcard don't advertise "up to 1/3", they advertise it as exactly 1/3, so you would have comeback against Railcard if they don't honour it. I imagine any discount reduction would have to be in two phases- advertise a lower discount for new railcard purchases and then after a period apply that lower discount to ticket purchases. Either that or rename the railcard(s) which RDG wish to apply a lower discount to, e.g. Family and Friends Railcard gets 1/3 but is not open for new sales, and the replacement Fun Times Railcard (or whatever they call it- if they call it that I want my commission though) only gets 25%.

I'm sure the RDG will blame purdah for the sneakiness. It's a good time to bury bad news.

 

[Watershed]

Perhaps a more speculative question for another part of the forum, but I do think Railcards are probably far too cheap and people would pay significantly more and still travel just as much, perhaps even more, to get more perceived value out of it.

Look at the Bahn Card 25 - €62.90 and only valid for second class discounts. €125 if you want first class discounts too. And only 25% discount - and German fares aren't exactly cheap.

This completely overlooks the fact that regional German train fares are effectively capped at €49/month. So it's only intercity train journeys that are subject to this lower discount.

Moreover, you can get a BahnCard 50 for just €244 (std) / €492 (1st) a year, whilst a BahnCard 100, which constitutes a country-wide annual season ticket valid on virtually all public transport, including IC/ICE services, costs €4550 (std) / €7714 (1st).

There are also youth and senior discounts on most of the above Bahncards, as well as "Probe" (trial) versions valid for 3 months at a reduced cost.

Meanwhile, in Britain, 30-59 year olds are generally only eligible for restrictive area-based Railcards such as the Network Railcard or (indirectly) the Annual Gold Card.

Even those eligible for 16-25 etc. Railcards find that commutes on regional trains typically cost hundreds of pounds a month. On long-distance trains the cost can easily reach five figures a year - and that's for seasons (or daily tickets) that just cover one specific route, so you have to pay again to make other journeys.

Overall Britain comes out very unfavourably in this comparison.

 

[MrJeeves]

(2) How will they affect the price of a fourteen day first class All-line Rover - purchased with a Senior Railcard - and commencing on 6th September this year?

If you mean the change in discount %, it will now be £923.70 vs £915.40.

The change may well be implemented after 6 September, though. We don't know yet.

So I'd say it's sneaky and typical of the RDG- price gougers, the lot of them- but the discount isn't less than advertised at railcard purchase so there's no comeback. National Railcards didn't say the discount was 34%, they said it was 1/3.

But, given that NRE is the official website for the entire rail industry, I think it'd be hard to argue that it wouldn't form part of the information used by a customer to decide whether or not to purchase a Railcard.

 

[Tetchytyke]

But, given that NRE is the official website for the entire rail industry, I think it'd be hard to argue that it wouldn't form part of the information used by a customer to decide whether or not to purchase a Railcard.

The advertised discount when purchasing the railcard is 1/3 for adults and it has been for as long as I can remember; the wayback machine shows it was that rate in 2001.

So as long as the discount is at least 1/3 there would, in my opinion, be no way of seeking recourse against that. A discount of greater than 1/3 is a bonus (e.g. when TPE were offering 50% for 16-25 railcard holders) but it is not an entitlement.

Much as I think it's needlessly sneaky and penny-pinching, I don't see there's a contractual issue with reducing the discount from 34% to 33.4%.

 

[OscarH]

But, given that NRE is the official website for the entire rail industry, I think it'd be hard to argue that it wouldn't form part of the information used by a customer to decide whether or not to purchase a Railcard.

You might consider that common sense, but we've seen time and time again the information on NRE be considered "guidance" and non-bindings from the industry

 

[Trainbike46]

So what happens if someone aged 60 buys a three year Senior Railcard and then they put up the eligibility age to say 65?

you could use it until it runs out, in all likelyhood.